Repentance: Event or Process

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Help me understand repetance better. If a person deals with a stronghold, addiction, whatever you want to call it, and it’s a mortal sin that they desperately want to stop engaging in but are having trouble doing so…how can they be absolved in confession? Can you be heartly sorry for offending God, but then also have such weakness that deep down you know you’ll probably do it again? I don’t understand the difference between being sorry and being repentant. If you need Gods help and grace to fully repent, that could take years…what do you do? Do you promise to stop every week at confession, then have a breakdown three days later when you’ve “gone and done it again?” I understand that repentance means change, but it seems that sometimes change takes time and harsh lessons. Do you avoid confession until you really mean it when you say, “I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more…” ??

Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
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MamaSusie:
Help me understand repetance better. If a person deals with a stronghold, addiction, whatever you want to call it, and it’s a mortal sin that they desperately want to stop engaging in but are having trouble doing so…how can they be absolved in confession? Can you be heartly sorry for offending God, but then also have such weakness that deep down you know you’ll probably do it again? I don’t understand the difference between being sorry and being repentant. If you need Gods help and grace to fully repent, that could take years…what do you do? Do you promise to stop every week at confession, then have a breakdown three days later when you’ve “gone and done it again?” I understand that repentance means change, but it seems that sometimes change takes time and harsh lessons. Do you avoid confession until you really mean it when you say, “I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more…” ??

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Well we all sin, and we all mortally sin - and every time we confess we do so in the realisation that we probably will mortally sin again at some stage. Addiction just intensifies this process.

If you are seriously addicted to something, however, it can render your sin no longer mortal by taking away some of your voluntary consent to it. Of course I confess even venial sins anyway, particularly those that are recurring or otherwise problematic for me.

The mere act of confessing the same thing over and over again acts (at least for me) as a bit of a wake-up call to tell me that I need to seek counselling or other help as well as confession if I am truly to seek to mend my ways.

Then again, as long as your contrition and your desire to amend are genuine at the time of Confession, you actually do receive special grace through the sacrament to help in your overcoming of it. It won’t always happen overnight - Saint Margaret of Cortona was notorious for her relapses into her sinful ways, still she achieved sainthood, so it can be done.

Finally, while presuming on God’s mercy is in itself a mortal sin, despairing of his mercy and help is just as deadly. God is capable of all things, and so are those who believe in him, no matter how hopeless the situation may seem to be. So when you say ‘with THE HELP OF YOUR GRACE I resolve to sin no more’ then believe in His Grace, even if you doubt your own resolve.
 
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MamaSusie:
Help me understand repetance better. If a person deals with a stronghold, addiction, whatever you want to call it, and it’s a mortal sin that they desperately want to stop engaging in but are having trouble doing so…how can they be absolved in confession? Can you be heartly sorry for offending God, but then also have such weakness that deep down you know you’ll probably do it again? I don’t understand the difference between being sorry and being repentant. If you need Gods help and grace to fully repent, that could take years…what do you do? Do you promise to stop every week at confession, then have a breakdown three days later when you’ve “gone and done it again?” I understand that repentance means change, but it seems that sometimes change takes time and harsh lessons. Do you avoid confession until you really mean it when you say, “I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more…” ??

Your thoughts are appreciated.
“I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more…” ??

It means that you are willing to do whatever it takes to stop acting in a sinful way. It means that you have taken actual concrete steps toward eliminating the temptation or circumstances leading you to sin. For instance if over eating is your sin. Putting a lock on the refegerator or cabinets and giving some one else the key is not unreasonable, if you just can’t do it any other way.
 
In most cases I believe it is a process rather than an event.

There are extremes, like alcohol or drug abuse, that have intervention programs and support groups for those who finally reach rock bottom and realize they can’t do it on their own. For most of us though, and most of our sins, that kind of support is not really available, nor do most of us reach that “rock bottom” stage where we are able to set aside our shame and embarassment enough to seek outside help or support.

I also doubt that many of us take this seriously enough though to act as if our very lives depended on our sincere attempts. Thus few of us will take the steps necessary, especially removing the “near occasions of sin”, and will thus continue to fail.

I can only be thankful for the grace of our merciful God that even under my failure to help myself as I should that He loves me and understands when I say “lord be merciful to me, a sinner.” I know that every small step is appreciated and, as Thomas Merton se beautifully expressed it, that “…the desire to please You does in fact please you.”

We certainly can’t be presumptuous in thinking that we can not be sincere in our attempts. On the other hand, it is not healthy to beat ourselves up too badly because we’re human and we fail despite our best attempts.

Peace,
 
I would have to agree that repentance is a process. The condition of repentance states that the penitent is truly sorry, and does not INTEND to commit the sin again. Nowhere does it state that said penitent WILL NOT commit the same sin again. To say that the penitent will not commit the same sin again through nothing more than their own human willpower seems to contradict the theology of Grace, which states that the power to resist temptation and avoid sin comes pretty much through the power of God. (before Br Rich corrects me, I would like to add that we do have a responsibility to respond to the Graces that God gives us, not simply adopt a lax attitude that God will do all the work and if we succumb to temptation then it is because God has not given us the proper Grace that is neccessary).
 
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LilyM:
  • and every time we confess we do so in the realisation that we probably will mortally sin again at some stage…
With utmost respect LilyM 🙂 I want to counter point here.
To me, it is self defeating to leave the confessional with anything but the firm belief that I will never sin again. I don’t want to leave any possibility for a new occasion, and only want to leave room for the grace to live completely holy, all the while aware of temptation. My ambitious hope is that I can be like the Cure of Ars, St. John Vianny who reportedly - never committed a mortal sin.

MamaSusie ~ It is my belief in the particular stage that you are in (and all of us really) repentance is a continuous and ongoing repetition of little conversions done many times a day. You can’t just resist sin at one time and then not refortify yourself. You must be prepared to resist the temptation and then you must go on the offensive.
It has been said time and time again. And until I actually did it I did not really understand. THE DAILY ROSARY is one of the greatest weapons against mortal sin. I highly recommend you begin this devotion spending generous time meditating on the mysterys. Don’t blaze through the devotion in order to get on with your day. Think of it as a meal you need to sit down to enjoy slowly. This, added to the sacraments, and possibly a time of adoration once in awhile - will help you to conquer frequenting a favored sin. God bless.
 
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ridesawhitehors:
With utmost respect LilyM 🙂 I want to counter point here.
To me, it is self defeating to leave the confessional with anything but the firm belief that I will never sin again. I don’t want to leave any possibility for a new occasion, and only want to leave room for the grace to live completely holy, all the while aware of temptation. My ambitious hope is that I can be like the Cure of Ars, St. John Vianny who reportedly - never committed a mortal sin.

I did say ‘mortally’ didn’t I … I really don’t know why I put that word in there :confused: Perhaps I could blame it on tiredness. Truly I don’t believe in going to Confession expecting to mortally sin again, whitehorse. I would feel that I was at best treating the sacrament without due respect if I did think that way.

But I also, along with Paul ‘work out my salvation with fear and trembling’ and acknowledge that ‘that which I do not wish to do I often do, and that which I wish to do I often do not do’. And unfortunately I can’t count myself along with the Cure of Ars as someone who’s never committed a mortal sin :o
 
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Let me throw another monkey wrench in here…what if the thing that most often makes a person want to sin is his/her own spouse?
 
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LilyM:
Well we all sin, and we all mortally sin - and every time we confess we do so in the realisation that we probably will mortally sin again at some stage. Addiction just intensifies this process.

If you are seriously addicted to something, however, it can render your sin no longer mortal by taking away some of your voluntary consent to it. Of course I confess even venial sins anyway, particularly those that are recurring or otherwise problematic for me.

The mere act of confessing the same thing over and over again acts (at least for me) as a bit of a wake-up call to tell me that I need to seek counselling or other help as well as confession if I am truly to seek to mend my ways.

Then again, as long as your contrition and your desire to amend are genuine at the time of Confession, you actually do receive special grace through the sacrament to help in your overcoming of it. It won’t always happen overnight - Saint Margaret of Cortona was notorious for her relapses into her sinful ways, still she achieved sainthood, so it can be done.

Finally, while presuming on God’s mercy is in itself a mortal sin, despairing of his mercy and help is just as deadly. God is capable of all things, and so are those who believe in him, no matter how hopeless the situation may seem to be. So when you say ‘with THE HELP OF YOUR GRACE I resolve to sin no more’ then believe in His Grace, even if you doubt your own resolve.
You stated that Saint Margaret of Cortona was notorious for her relapses into sinful ways and yet she achieved sainthood. How is this possible when Catholics on this forum condemn Protestants for their beliefs concerning “once saved always saved”? Catholics will ask “how can a Protestant be saved if he commits a serious sin”?
 
I think the idea is that if you repent, you can be saved. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the problem with the “once saved always saved” idea isn’t so much that you do whatever you want and get by with it (because I don’t REALLY know any protestants that believe that…and I’m married to one), but the problem is with the idea that you can’t LOSE your salvation through your own actions. I, and most Catholics, believe that you can lose your salvation through your actions and deliberately not repenting of them. Protestants, or at least my husband’s church, believe that if you DO sin, repent or not, you won’t burn in hell for it. That’s my take on it.

Now, I could really use some advice, so if we could NOT ruin this thread with “Once saved, always saved debate number 556,789,566,345,965,” I would really appreciate it.

Great topic…FOR ANOTHER THREAD. 😉
 
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Alfie:
You stated that Saint Margaret of Cortona was notorious for her relapses into sinful ways and yet she achieved sainthood. How is this possible when Catholics on this forum condemn Protestants for their beliefs concerning “once saved always saved”? Catholics will ask “how can a Protestant be saved if he commits a serious sin”?
I would suggest that you read this link to get the context of this saints life. Your lack of effort to even understand what the Catholic Church teaches while at the same time attempting to indict them is really pretty sad.

Most human beings struggle with some aspect of sin, with more or less success. St Margaret’s “notoriety” was other people’s gossip, but had you bothered to actually learn about her you wouldn’t attempt to use her to attack teh Catholic faith.

Catholics have the Sacrament of Reconcilliation which not only offers us absolution for confessed sins but also counseling on how to overcome those weakness, which in this saint’s case is no doubt what helped facilitate her moral life.

"Farmer’s daughter. Her mother died when Margaret was seven years old, and her stepmother considered her a nuisance. She eloped with a young nobleman from Montepulciano, bore him a son, and lived as his mistress for nine years. In 1274 he was murdered by brigands, and his body dumped in a shallow grave.
Code:
Margaret saw the incident as a sign from God. She publicly confessed to the affair, and tried to return to her father's house; he would not accept her. She and her son took shelter with the Friars Minor at Cortona. Still young and attractive, Margaret sometimes had trouble resisting temptation, but each incident was followed by periods of deep self-loathing. To make herself unappealing to local young men, she once tried to mutilate herself, but was stopped by a Friar named Giunta.

She earned her keep by tending to sick women. She later began caring for the sick poor, living on alms, asking nothing for her services. Became a Franciscan tertiary in 1277. Margaret developed an deep and intense prayer life, and was given to ecstacies during which she received messages from heaven.

In 1286 she received charter to work with the sick poor. She gathered others of like mind, and formed them into tertiaries. They were later given the status of a congregation, and called the Poverelle (Poor Ones). Founded a hospital at Cortona. Preached against vice to any who would listen. Developed a great devotion to the Eucharist and Passion. Prophesied the date of her own death.
Though she worked for those in need, and though the poor sought her help and advice, the calumny of her earlier life followed her the rest of her days, and she was forever the target of local gossips.

Born: 1247 at Loviano, Tuscany, Italy

Died: 22 February 1297 at Cortona, Italy of natural causes"

Protestantism’s OSAS works out as nothing more than a vehicle for rationalizing sin in a person’s life without worthwhile accountability or contrition, since they don’t have to actually face another believer to confess their sins and risk those sins being retained if the confessor senses a lack of real contrition and purpose to amend their life.

That’s why the passage in John 20:21-23 is so important.
“21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
Pax tecum,

P.S. MamaSusie…it’s a process. Like life.
 
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MamaSusie:
…what if the thing that most often makes a person want to sin is his/her own spouse?
Oh well thats a whole different story! LOL… just kidding.
Maybe you mean like your spouse flaring your temper? In that case it is still a matter of repeat discipline and conversion, and prayer. Been there, done that.

If it is a matter of a serious behaviour like skipping mass, or contracepting - it is still the same thing - you have to repent, confess, and resolve to quit - and then quit. Otherwise at some point you are working the system. You can’t go to confession knowing you are going to go back to the same mortal sin without a fight.
Sounds like maybe your spouse is not supporting your catholic beliefs and practices?
 
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MamaSusie:
Help me understand repetance better. If a person deals with a stronghold, addiction, whatever you want to call it, and it’s a mortal sin that they desperately want to stop engaging in but are having trouble doing so…how can they be absolved in confession? Can you be heartly sorry for offending God, but then also have such weakness that deep down you know you’ll probably do it again? I don’t understand the difference between being sorry and being repentant. If you need Gods help and grace to fully repent, that could take years…what do you do? Do you promise to stop every week at confession, then have a breakdown three days later when you’ve “gone and done it again?” I understand that repentance means change, but it seems that sometimes change takes time and harsh lessons. Do you avoid confession until you really mean it when you say, “I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more…” ??

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Have you been baptized with the Holy Spirit? If not… ask him to dwell in you? Even if you sincerely confess your sins you must believe that God will help you overcome them. You need to claim victory over your sins. The best way to overcome a certain sin is to give thanks and praise to God for all he has done for you.
 
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ridesawhitehors:
With utmost respect LilyM 🙂 I want to counter point here.
To me, it is self defeating to leave the confessional with anything but the firm belief that I will never sin again. I don’t want to leave any possibility for a new occasion, and only want to leave room for the grace to live completely holy, all the while aware of temptation. My ambitious hope is that I can be like the Cure of Ars, St. John Vianny who reportedly - never committed a mortal sin.

MamaSusie ~ It is my belief in the particular stage that you are in (and all of us really) repentance is a continuous and ongoing repetition of little conversions done many times a day. You can’t just resist sin at one time and then not refortify yourself. You must be prepared to resist the temptation and then you must go on the offensive.
It has been said time and time again. And until I actually did it I did not really understand. THE DAILY ROSARY is one of the greatest weapons against mortal sin. I highly recommend you begin this devotion spending generous time meditating on the mysterys. Don’t blaze through the devotion in order to get on with your day. Think of it as a meal you need to sit down to enjoy slowly. This, added to the sacraments, and possibly a time of adoration once in awhile - will help you to conquer frequenting a favored sin. God bless.
All sin is mortal. The division of sin between venial and mortal sin is based on self righteousness. People want to think they are better than other people because they don’t commit certain sins. Someone on this forum said that if there was no such thing as mortal sin then Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. That is a frightening statement. The Bible says “All have come short of the Glory of God”.
 
Even in the New Testament, however, there are distinctions between different degrees of sin. For example Jesus mentions the ‘sin against the Holy Spirit’ which cannot be forgiven, clearly distinguishing this from other sins which can be and are forgiven.

When he gives the Apostles power to forgive he also mentions ‘those whose sins you shall retain’ - anticipating that for a number of different reasons there are occasions on which forgiveness can and will be denied. Then too Jesus gives them the power of binding and loosing, thus allowing them to set standards and norms as far as sin and forgiveness - including distinguishing between different types of sin.
 
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MamaSusie:
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Let me throw another monkey wrench in here…what if the thing that most often makes a person want to sin is his/her own spouse?
That is what we call a “cross to bear”. Almost all of us have struggles, and some of us (like myself) have many. I think the most sound advice I could give has already been given. Frequent confession (as often as is neccessary), frequent reception of the Eucharist, vigilant prayer, fasting (nothing masochistic, but one or two days a week), and Eucharistic Adoration are all tools we have as Catholics to help us grow in our love for Christ and become receptive to His ways and shed our struggles. It may sound like “old-fashioned” advice, but that’s because IT WORKS!!
 
That seems unfair to my husband. I deserve a man that’s open to life, and he deserves a woman that doesn’t want another man because of it. I guess I should die a martyr in my own marriage. Ah, the joys of being Catholic. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry …but being Christian is a call to a Higher Way of Life. Christ never promised us it would be easy or “fair”. (and no I’m not being smug…I’m actually agreeing with you)
 
Ridesawhitehors, I wish it was as simple as losing my temper. For 10 years he has not been open to life, refuses to be intimate with me if I can get pregnant, etc…he’s positively neglegent and irresponsible as a husband. I tracked him for a month, and he spent .8 (yes, point eight) hours a day at home. Hasn’t filed taxes in years, lost his job last week because he let his license expire (attorney)…you name it, if it requires due diligence, forget it. About 5 years ago, I told him I might be pregnant, and he told me to “take care of that.” I have not loved him since. So no, losing my temper is the least of my concerns. I don’t love or hate him…he just lives here. I support the family, carry the insurance, have the retirement and life ins, etc…I take care of the home, the child, yard…everything. I moved out for 3 mos and didn’t miss him at all. I only came home because I wasn’t ready to make a decision and he was asking for a divorce…I wasn’t ready because of our son - I couldn’t care less about my dh. We went to counseling for 3 mos. He was asked to do two things (babysteps) 1: call me in the middle of hte day for no reason (since I generally don’t hear from him for days on end) and 2: make appointments for individual counsling. He never did either. Meanwhile, I gave up all my friends he didn’t like, quit my hobbies, basically gave up everything to give the marriage a shot…and nothing. I feel like I’ve slapped in the face daily for 10 years, and I’m tired of it. So many times I have brought the walls down, only to have him hurl stones. I just want to pick up the pieces that belong to me, and start over with a CATHOLIC man that’s open to life. I can’t even get through the joyful mystery of the visitation without balling my eyes out. When Elizabeth feels the baby move…I have wanted that for SO long, and my husband will just never be open to it. Frankly, I don’t want it with him anymore either, because being married to him is like being a single parent.

On the bright side, I’ve never lost my temper with him. He’s never around to fight with!
 
Church Militant:
Protestantism’s OSAS works out as nothing more than a vehicle for rationalizing sin in a person’s life without worthwhile accountability or contrition, since they don’t have to actually face another believer to confess their sins and risk those sins being retained if the confessor senses a lack of real contrition and purpose to amend their life.
According to you every Protestant is a hypocrite.So what you are saying is that for those twenty eight years you were an evengelical you were too. I know a number of Spirit filled Evangelicals and they have to ask for forgiveness for their sins all of the time. There is no such thing as a perfect Christian. In Romans 7:14-25 Paul writes “My own behavior baffles me”. "For I find myself not doing what I really want to do but doing what I really loathe…I often find that I have the will to do good, but not the power. That is, I don’t accomplish the good I set out to do, and the evil I don’t really want to do I find I am always doing…It is agonizing situation, and who on earth can set me free from the clutches of my sinful nature? Then he adds, “I thank God there is a way out through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The Bible tells us that if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

I could say the same thing about Catholics going to confession. Most Catholics I know go out and commit the same sins they confess to a priest. The Bible does say to confess your sins to one another, but that is by choice. It is not a commandment. That doesn’t mean you have to go to a priest to confess. It can be any believer. A priest cannot forgive and grant absolution from your sins.
 
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