Repentence after Death

[Colm_Cille]

We are all aware that repentance for sin during life is a vital element of Catholicism, and helps us to grow in faith, and in grace. We are encouraged to confess regularly, and we are also offered a final repentance on our death-beds. My question of this evening is, is there a chance to repent after death? May one die in sin, and repent before damnation? I ask this question because many Near-Death Experiences see those involved “descending” into Hell, only to repent and be forgiven. Is this a case of God granting grace to those people, or were their cries for forgiveness heeded?

Thanks for taking the time to read and/or respond.

Mise le Meas,

Colm Cille.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The teaching of the Church is very clear on this point: if we die in a State of Grace, we will attain salvation. Otherwise, we (probably) go to hell.

We are placed in a State of Grace through Christian Baptism. We remove ourselves through mortal sin. We are restored to a State of Grace by Sacramental Confession.

The Church recognizes the possibility that salvation might be attained by other means (which have not been revealed). Thus, we have hope for salvation for unbaptized infants (but nobody knows for sure what happens to them)

There’s no telling what we can make of near-death experiences. If we accept them at face value, they could be interpreted as an experience of purgatory (not hell). Or they might represent some “other means” of salvation that has not been revealed to the Church.

 

[TimothyH]

The teaching of the Church is very clear on this point: if we die in a State of Grace, we will attain salvation. Otherwise, we go to hell.

We are placed in a State of Grace through Christian Baptism. We remove ourselves through mortal sin. We are restored to a State of Grace by Sacramental Confession.

There’s no telling what we can make of near-death experiences. If we accept them at face value, they could be interpreted as an experience of purgatory (not hell).

That’s a very mechanical view of our faith. The sacraments are not mechanical processes which we can manipulate to our own benefit. Salvation is not a binary yes/no or true/false proposition, where confession equals heaven and lack of confession equals hell.

The sacrament of reconcilliation returns us from sin to a state of grace, but then a response to that state of grace is required of us, and it starts with humility and prayer.

Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me. (Matthew 25:34-36)

The blessed have inherited the kingdom because of what they did. We are supposed to respond to that grace which we recieve in the confessional, and from the Eucharist, and bear fruit in love.

Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.’ His master said to him in reply, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! …throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ (Matthew 25:24-26,30)

We are supposed to take that gift of grace and yeild an increase with it for God. If all we ever do is go to Mass and make use of confession when we sin, we are nothing more than wicked and lazy servants, returning nothing to God for his gift of grace, and God will have no mercy on us.

Every once in a while someone will come onto CAF and ask why Jesus cursed the fig tree. Jesus cursed the fig tree because it bore no fruit. The fig tree simply sat there, using up the nutrients in the soil and soaking in the sun, and produced nothing of value. If all we do is take up time in the confessional and space in the communion line, then we are no better than the fig tree, and can expect the same fate.

We are supposed to bear fruit in love, and advance God’s kingdom. That’s called being a saint. The saints didn’t just go to confession and recieve the Eucharisat. They loved in radical ways, and that is what God calls us to do, to be saints. That’s why I don’t think thee is repentance after death.

When we die, a wall will fall down, and we will stand face to face with Jesus. and he will ask us what we did.

-Tim-

 

[DavidFilmer]

[works are important too, etc, etc, etc]

Works are only necessary to the extent that not doing them becomes an occasion of mortal sin (a sin of omission). Lack of works may weaken our spiritual relationship with Jesus, but only mortal sin can actually remove us from it. It is possible that the neglect of any particular work can be mortally sinful.

 

[MariaGoretti88]

Works are only necessary to the extent that not doing them becomes an occasion of mortal sin (a sin of omission). Lack of works may weaken our spiritual relationship with Jesus, but only mortal sin can actually remove us from it. It is possible that the neglect of any particular work can be mortally sinful.

I see what you mean, but I feel the Holy Scriptures say that Faith w/o works is dead and if dead, then no Theological Virtue, and if no Theological Virtue then no salvation and once someone reaches the age of reason, I doubt there’s an excuse at that point unless they’re mentally prevented from yielding fruit

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I agree with David Filmer that we basically don’t know if this is possible or not. We don’t know what dying is like, what exactly happens. Maybe there is a moment where things become more clear at the very point of death, who knows. On the other hand, there are saints who had visions of hell and apparently hell is full of souls. It is a mystery and the best we can do is pray for those who are in danger of dying in mortal sin.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree with David Filmer that we basically don’t know if this is possible or not. We don’t know what dying is like, what exactly happens. Maybe there is a moment where things become more clear at the very point of death, who knows. On the other hand, there are saints who had visions of hell and apparently hell is full of souls. It is a mystery and the best we can do is pray for those who are in danger of dying in mortal sin.

Holy Mary, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death! Amen!

 

[TEPO]

Holy Mary, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death! Amen!

The hour of our death will be a telling hour. :sad_yes:

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

We are all aware that repentance for sin during life is a vital element of Catholicism, and helps us to grow in faith, and in grace. We are encouraged to confess regularly, and we are also offered a final repentance on our death-beds. My question of this evening is, is there a chance to repent after death? May one die in sin, and repent before damnation? I ask this question because many Near-Death Experiences see those involved “descending” into Hell, only to repent and be forgiven. Is this a case of God granting grace to those people, or were their cries for forgiveness heeded?

Thanks for taking the time to read and/or respond.

Mise le Meas,

Colm Cille.

It seems to me that people who have real Near Death Experiences are given a grace to change their life around before they die. Often they encounter what would have happen to them had they died. Here is an interesting NDE experience of a man who got a glimpse of Hell and Purgatory which you may find interesting: WATCH VIDEO

 

[thistle]

That’s a very mechanical view of our faith. The sacraments are not mechanical processes which we can manipulate to our own benefit. Salvation is not a binary yes/no or true/false proposition, where confession equals heaven and lack of confession equals hell.

The sacrament of reconcilliation returns us from sin to a state of grace, but then a response to that state of grace is required of us, and it starts with humility and prayer.

Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me. (Matthew 25:34-36)

The blessed have inherited the kingdom because of what they did. We are supposed to respond to that grace which we recieve in the confessional, and from the Eucharist, and bear fruit in love.

Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.’ His master said to him in reply, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! …throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ (Matthew 25:24-26,30)

We are supposed to take that gift of grace and yeild an increase with it for God. If all we ever do is go to Mass and make use of confession when we sin, we are nothing more than wicked and lazy servants, returning nothing to God for his gift of grace, and God will have no mercy on us.

Every once in a while someone will come onto CAF and ask why Jesus cursed the fig tree. Jesus cursed the fig tree because it bore no fruit. The fig tree simply sat there, using up the nutrients in the soil and soaking in the sun, and produced nothing of value. If all we do is take up time in the confessional and space in the communion line, then we are no better than the fig tree, and can expect the same fate.

We are supposed to bear fruit in love, and advance God’s kingdom. That’s called being a saint. The saints didn’t just go to confession and recieve the Eucharisat. They loved in radical ways, and that is what God calls us to do, to be saints. That’s why I don’t think thee is repentance after death.

When we die, a wall will fall down, and we will stand face to face with Jesus. and he will ask us what we did.

-Tim-

Actually it is simple and the Church teaching is very clear (apart from unbaptised infants who in my view are saved).
The Church teaches there is no repentance after death.

If we die in a state of grace we are saved (either straight to Heaven or Purgatory first).
If we die in a state of mortal sin we go to Hell.

To take an extreme example of a person who has mortally sinned their entire life, lets say by murder, theft, adultery and anything other sin you can think of, this person would be saved if they made a sincere Confession on their deathbed.

 

[kmuestwin]

There is no wiggle room.

In the end, we end up in one of two places: heaven or hell.

There is no repentance after death and no do overs. We get one shot over the course of a lifetime.

 

[Evan]

Actually it is simple and the Church teaching is very clear (apart from unbaptised infants who in my view are saved).
The Church teaches there is no repentance after death.

If we die in a state of grace we are saved (either straight to Heaven or Purgatory first).
If we die in a state of mortal sin we go to Hell.

To take an extreme example of a person who has mortally sinned their entire life, lets say by murder, theft, adultery and anything other sin you can think of, this person would be saved if they made a sincere Confession on their deathbed.

Of course he would be saved. But it is unlikely that a sincere Confession would be made by someone who mortally sinned his entire life.

 

[TimothyH]

Works are only necessary to the extent that not doing them becomes an occasion of mortal sin (a sin of omission). Lack of works may weaken our spiritual relationship with Jesus, but only mortal sin can actually remove us from it. It is possible that the neglect of any particular work can be mortally sinful.

No. Christ was clear. Matthew 25 was clear.

We are not the theif on the cross. We are expected to bear fruit.

-Tim-

 

[thistle]

Of course he would be saved. But it is unlikely that a sincere Confession would be made by someone who mortally sinned his entire life.

Unlikely does not make it impossible. People can change at any time.

Look at St Paul. He led the group that persecuted and killed Christians.

My point is that Confession is sufficient to save a person. TimothyH is saying or implying that God will not show mercy to someone like that.

 

[cranster]

No. Christ was clear. Matthew 25 was clear.

We are not the theif on the cross. We are expected to bear fruit.

-Tim-

That’s a pretty bold statement. How do you know we are not the thief on the Cross? It seems to me that the pronouncements Jesus made from the Cross were universal as when He gave Mary as our mother, and made us her Children. If we aren’t the thief on the Cross then why wouldn’t Jesus have just made Mary Johns mother? I would hope that Jesus was making a universal proclamation about His mercy, and not just telling one individual that he uniquely qualified for a special grace that is not available to anyone else. We live in a unique time in history where the temptation to mortal sin is greater than it has ever been especially for males with pornography being free, and always a mouse click away. People can truly become enslaved to it, and may be tempted to despair because they can’t break free from it. I’m not saying Matthew 25 is not a critical element, but if the thief on the cross mercy is not available to all then I’m afraid hell is going to be far more populated today than any other time in history do to our culture, and the constant barrage of temptation to sin that exists in this technological society. It seems we may need the thief on the cross mercy now more than ever. People can be tempted to abandon their faith because they can’t break free from certain sins, and it may take a whole lifetime of struggle to break free. I would bet dollars to donuts that pornography is a major theme in the confessional.

 

[cranster]

one thing I forget to include in my post. A person who has spent a lifetime of struggle, and who tries to live their faith as much as is within their capacity could fall into mortal sin in a moment of weakness, not realizing that was their last hour on earth. They may be incapacitated in getting to confession. They would need the thief on the Cross mercy at that time if they cry out for it. If Jesus mercy is infinite then that would be the time for it. Though not the only component it is a major component of the Rosary for me, that our Blessed Mother will be praying for me at the hour of my death because I am a sinful and frail human and that very well could be when I need it most.

 

[Colm_Cille]

Thank you all for taking the time to contribute, I find all your replies fascinating. I wonder what the role of purgatory is, if there is no chance for redemption after death? I would be very interested to hear further replies pertaining to that aspect of the discussion.

 

[cranster]

Thank you all for taking the time to contribute, I find all your replies fascinating. I wonder what the role of purgatory is, if there is no chance for redemption after death? I would be very interested to hear further replies pertaining to that aspect of the discussion.

This is one of the best explanations of purgatory I’ve ever come across.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I wonder what the role of purgatory is, if there is no chance for redemption after death?

Purgatory has NOTHING to do with redemption. ALL are redeemed by Our Lord’s Sacrifice on Calvary (including those in hell, who are also redeemed).

Purgatory has NOTHING to do with salvation - everyone in Purgatory is saved (ie, will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven).

We are individually and irrevocably judged at the moment of our death. Some are consigned to hell, from which there is no appeal. Some are consigned to heaven, from which there is no appeal. Some are consigned to purgatory, which will ultimately lead to heaven, from which there is no appeal.

Nobody in purgatory can possibly go to hell. EVERYONE in purgatory is saved.

 

[thistle]

Purgatory has NOTHING to do with redemption. ALL are redeemed by Our Lord’s Sacrifice on Calvary (including those in hell, who are also redeemed).

Purgatory has NOTHING to do with salvation - everyone in Purgatory is saved (ie, will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven).

We are individually and irrevocably judged at the moment of our death. Some are consigned to hell, from which there is no appeal. Some are consigned to heaven, from which there is no appeal. Some are consigned to purgatory, which will ultimately lead to heaven, from which there is no appeal.

Nobody in purgatory can possibly go to hell. EVERYONE in purgatory is saved.