Replacing The Altar with a "podium"?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 2ndGen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
2

2ndGen

Guest
If God insisted that His Church was to have an “altar” and Jesus worshipped with altars and The Church in Revelations has an altar, where did Christianity replace the “altar” with a podium?
 
Where?

There were always “podiums,” but the podium was always off to the side. During the Reformation, the podium became front and center as the message became more important. Later, many got rid of the altar completely. If there is no sacrifice, but rather just a memorial, then an altar is worthless.
 
Alexius said:
Where?

There were always “podiums,” but the podium was always off to the side. During the Reformation, the podium became front and center as the message became more important. Later, many got rid of the altar completely. If there is no sacrifice, but rather just a memorial, then an altar is worthless.
Click to expand...
So then, Protestants replaced the altar of God with the podium.

The “speaker” became the “center” of attention instead of the altar as specified by God.

Would you agree that the Protestants “changed” what God ordained then?

When these “many” removed the altar, was their action based on sripture?

Or was it something that they created?
 
Joshua 8:31
31just as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded the sons of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, (A)an altar of uncut stones on which no man had wielded an iron tool; and they offered burnt offerings on it to the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.

Matthew 5:23-24
"So when you offer your gift to God, think about other people. If you are offering your gift before the altar, and you remember that your brother has something against you, then leave your gift there at the altar. Go and make peace with that person. Then come and offer your gift.

Revelation
Chapter 8:3
Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.

See? The altar is ordained by God initially, supported by Jesus and is still used in worship to God in the book of Revelations.

So it “was” here, “is” here and will “always be” here for eternity.

Since God was the one who ordered that an altar be built for worship to Him, who is man to do away with what God ordered?
 
2ndGen said:
So then, Protestants replaced the altar of God with the podium.

The “speaker” became the “center” of attention instead of the altar as specified by God.

Would you agree that the Protestants “changed” what God ordained then?

When these “many” removed the altar, was their action based on sripture?

Or was it something that they created?
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree it was essentially replaced. The Word of God (Bible) being preached became the center of church life. Throughout the Dark Ages, people were ignorant of the Bible. Luther believed that the people needed to hear Scripture in the “vulgar” tongue.

As for the altars, it is more based on early writings and the connection to the OT altar that guides the belief. Protestants dismiss it because they do not believe Communion is a true sacrifice. They lack that connection to the OT. Many claim that the passages in the NT are to be taken in the context of Jewish practice and thought…I think that actually reinforces the practice of altars.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Alexius said:
Yes, I agree it was essentially replaced. The Word of God (Bible) being preached became the center of church life. Throughout the
Alexius:cool:
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree it was essentially replaced.

WHY WAS IT ESSENTIAL THAT IT BE REPLACED?

The Word of God (Bible) being preached became the center of church life.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD WHEN GOD COMMANDED THAT AN ALTAR BE USED IN WORSHIPPING HIM?

IS THAT PART OF THE WORD OF GOD “NOT” PREACHED THEN?

As for the altars, it is more based on early writings and the connection to the OT altar that guides the belief.

WHAT ABOUT THE NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES AND JOHN’S REVELATION OF THE FUTURE AND THE ALTAR STILL BE USED IN THE FUTURE?

Protestants dismiss it because they do not believe Communion is a true sacrifice. They lack that connection to the OT. Many claim that the passages in the NT are to be taken in the context of Jewish practice and thought…I think that actually reinforces the practice of altars.

SO, IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT CATHOLICS AND THE SAINTS AND THE ANGELS AND JESUS AND GOD ALL AGREE THAT AN ALTAR IS O BE USED IN WORSHIPPING GOD?

AND THAT PROTESTANTS DISAGREE WITH GOD AND JESUS AND THE ANGELS AND THE SAINTS AND CATHOLICS?

(Note, caps not yelling or meaning to be rude, just force of habit I use to separate text between two posters).
 
2ndGen said:
Yes, I agree it was essentially replaced.

WHY WAS IT ESSENTIAL THAT IT BE REPLACED?

The Word of God (Bible) being preached became the center of church life.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD WHEN GOD COMMANDED THAT AN ALTAR BE USED IN WORSHIPPING HIM?

IS THAT PART OF THE WORD OF GOD “NOT” PREACHED THEN?

As for the altars, it is more based on early writings and the connection to the OT altar that guides the belief.

WHAT ABOUT THE NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES AND JOHN’S REVELATION OF THE FUTURE AND THE ALTAR STILL BE USED IN THE FUTURE?

Protestants dismiss it because they do not believe Communion is a true sacrifice. They lack that connection to the OT. Many claim that the passages in the NT are to be taken in the context of Jewish practice and thought…I think that actually reinforces the practice of altars.

SO, IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT CATHOLICS AND THE SAINTS AND THE ANGELS AND JESUS AND GOD ALL AGREE THAT AN ALTAR IS O BE USED IN WORSHIPPING GOD?

AND THAT PROTESTANTS DISAGREE WITH GOD AND JESUS AND THE ANGELS AND THE SAINTS AND CATHOLICS?

(Note, caps not yelling or meaning to be rude, just force of habit I use to separate text between two posters).
Click to expand...
When I say “essentially,” I do not mean “necessary.” It was good and useful, but not to the exclusion of the Eucharist. I mean that it was slowly down, therefore, “essentially” the altar was removed. It did not happen under Luther. He placed the preaching of Scripture as important, but he didn’t neglect to emphasize the Eucharist. Of course, he did not view it as a sacrifice, as far as I know. It began to happen after Calvin. In America, very few Presbyterian and Reformed churches have true altars. In Europe, however, there are Calvinist churches with altars.

It is easy to say that Protestants ignore God’s Word, but they believe Catholics are the ones who ignore it. Of course, one thing that got me questioning a few years ago was that all of the ancient churches all over the world had altars.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Alexius said:
When I say "

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
Click to expand...
Well, I personally wouldn’t say that they ignore God’s Word as much as I’d say that they are selective in what they choose to believe.

Or in other words, they’ll never look verses or passages that completely blow away their beliefs.

They don’t ignore them because they know that those passages are there. They focus more on "what’ they can accept as opposed to what God wants them to believe.

I, as a Christian, would say that God wants us to believe everything He revealed in The Holy Bible and not just the things that we agree with.

There are alot of Catholics that don’t accept everything in The Bible…but you won’t see them at Church.

Then there are Christians that don’t believe in everything that the Bible teaches and they attend their church 3 times a week if not everyday.

Go figure.

🤷

Well, I’m glad I’m not bent on converting anybody.

I’d be going crazy right now.

I just like to give anti-Catholics anurysms.
:o
 
2ndGen said:
If God insisted that His Church was to have an “altar” and Jesus worshipped with altars and The Church in Revelations has an altar, where did Christianity replace the “altar” with a podium?
Click to expand...
Given that there are no sacrifices for the church to make, I don’t see any reason to have an altar.
 
The altar is in your own heart and mind where you give your offerings of prayer to Jesus, as High Priest he takes them to God to make atonement for you.

The real Eucharist is not a sacrifice of Jesus over and over again, it is accepting him as the High Priest of the New Covenant who makes that atonement for you with your offerings of prayer and repentance.
 
2ndGen said:
Go figure.

🤷

Well, I’m glad I’m not bent on converting anybody.

I’d be going crazy right now.

I just like to give anti-Catholics anurysms.
:o
Click to expand...
😉 Good one 2ndGen!! It is humurous to watch the “wheels spinning” while they try to point/counterpoint Catholic beliefs. I can almost smell smoke sometimes!👍
 
FaithofAbraham said:
The altar is in your own heart and mind where you give your offerings of prayer to Jesus, as High Priest he takes them to God to make atonement for you.

The real Eucharist is not a sacrifice of Jesus over and over again, it is accepting him as the High Priest of the New Covenant who makes that atonement for you with your offerings of prayer and repentance.
Click to expand...
The Eucharist makes present for us the sacrifice of Jesus. We don’t sacrifice him over and over. But we join our offerings of prayers and repentance to his own perfect offering of himself. God is outside of time and we, in a sense, step outside of time when we do this. It is appropriate that an altar be used.

I’ve seen altars in many protestant churches but I’ve never been to a service where they were used.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
The Eucharist makes present for us the sacrifice of Jesus. We don’t sacrifice him over and over. But we join our offerings of prayers and repentance to his own perfect offering of himself. God is outside of time and we, in a sense, step outside of time when we do this. It is appropriate that an altar be used.

I’ve seen altars in many protestant churches but I’ve never been to a service where they were used.
Click to expand...
Do you mean you are transported back in time to Calvary?
 
FredSmith said:
Given that there are no sacrifices for the church to make, I don’t see any reason to have an altar.
Click to expand...
So when Jesus said “do this in remembrance of me”, he meant them to do it once?

And if only once, why did they keep doing it every sabbath in The Bible?

Why was the first thing that Jesus did with The Apostles on the road to Emmaus was to practice the Sacrament of The Eucharist?

Why was it that The Apostles couldn’t see Jesus “until” He “broke the bread”?
 
2ndGen said:
So when Jesus said “do this in remembrance of me”, he meant them to do it once?

And if only once, why did they keep doing it every sabbath in The Bible?

Why was the first thing that Jesus did with The Apostles on the road to Emmaus was to practice the Sacrament of The Eucharist?

Why was it that The Apostles couldn’t see Jesus “until” He “broke the bread”?
Click to expand...
Eucharist is to remember Jesus in your prayers as the one who takes your prayers to God to make atonement for you, you are supposed to have the Eucharist in your heart every time you pray.
 
Pwrlftr said:
You have to somehow prove the “this” is a sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Your prayer offering for repentance of sin is the sacrifice, not Jesus or Eucharist. Eucharist reminds that Jesus accepts your offering and takes it to God for you, as the mediator (bread) between God and man in the New Covenant (wine).
 
StBenMom said:
Here’s the pattern;

Attack with inseemingly undefensable questions or statements.

Get those answers from us putting them in a state of :eek: !

Then, they get :mad: !

Then, they :banghead: !

Then, we…:getholy: .

Then, they…:dts: .

Finally, they…:crying: .

Finally, the board gets into it and they (both Protestant and Catholics)…:gopray2: .

👍
Click to expand...
 
Pwrlftr said:
Altars are only needed when a sacrifice is to be made. Since there is no more sacrifice for a priest to make…no more altar.
Click to expand...
Ok, so God’s wrong to have Altars in Heaven?

Jesus was wrong to value sacrifices on Altars in Scripture?

And is this a Scriptural based belief or a personal observance?

(Pwrlftr, I am not asking you these questions saracastically. Because the sentiment get’s lost in the text and because we are echanging seemingly opposing views, I think it’s important that you know that my words are being written in the kindest manner so that we can [even if we don’t agree] :hug3: ).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top