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Pwrlftr
Guest
We aren’t in heaven right now.
When did Jesus value these sacrifices? Was it before or after the cross?
It’s only logical. The altar was an object that sacrifice was offered on.
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2ndGen
Guest
J
jwashu
Guest
I do find it interesting that most Baptist Church’s have an Altar from which communion is served, it’s only wood with no relic but at least in the Church I grew up in, it was in front of the pulpit.
Then again, there are many Southern Baptist who actually have a lot of Catholic Truth’s mixed into their theology… at least the lay people, they just don’t realize it’s Catholic
Joe
Then again, there are many Southern Baptist who actually have a lot of Catholic Truth’s mixed into their theology… at least the lay people, they just don’t realize it’s Catholic
Joe
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
Some people have thought of it as something similar to that, that we are brought to the last supper, to the foot of the cross, and to the resurrection at mass. Time ceases to exist. God does not live in ‘time’, He lives in ‘eternity’ so He sees all things as happening ‘now’. I am not a mystic or a physicist so I can’t explain it better and this is not doctrine.
But Jesus doesn’t die again or be sacrificed again; the Eucharist is the same sacrifice Jesus offered once and for all and we share in that same sacrifice.
Sorry this is such a poor explanation.
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2ndGen
Guest
I went to a Baptist service once and they broke out with the Ritz and Welches.I do find it interesting that most Baptist Church’s have an Altar from which communion is served, it’s only wood with no relic but at least in the Church I grew up in, it was in front of the pulpit.
Then again, there are many Southern Baptist who actually have a lot of Catholic Truth’s mixed into their theology… at least the lay people, they just don’t realize it’s Catholic
Joe
I thought it was very nice.
Of course, to them it’s only symbolic.
It was a beautiful experience.
I went to speak to the pastor after the service to tell him how beautiful I thought his sermon was. He was so pleased and we discussed things. When the issue of what “I” was came up and I told him I was Catholic, he smiled. There was an uncomfortable silence, but I didn’t want to allow that to spoil the experience for me. I again reiterated how I really was touched by the service.
And he replied with something to the effect that “Well, the difference between us is that we don’t need a pope to tell us what to do.”
I wanted to tell him that he was his particular church’s pope because he taught his followeres and decided for them what they could and couldn’t believe, but I thought that I’d leave him with a smile and a handshake.
I knew that despite any mail order certificate of ordination he got, despite any Doctorate degree he may have received at a college, he had no idea…not one…of what Christianity is.
His whole sermon went out the window…right there and then, I knew it was all a show.
Howvever, I didn’t allow this to taint the exerience of fellowship I shared with the congregants there. Some knew I was Catholic and they were so sweet to me and welcoming.
I won’t judge that particular church by their leader, but by it’s congregants who were true Christians even though their highly educated self-proclaimed mail order ordained pastor wasn’t in biblical terms.
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SyCarl
Guest
While we do not have an altar we do have a communion table which is somewhat more than a podium.
http://www.standrewskw.com/tourchgifs/chimage8B.gif
Hebrews tell us that the earthly altars were mere shadows of reality. We do not need these earthly altars now since Jesus has opened the way for us to approach the Heavenly sanctuary and altar through Him.
http://www.standrewskw.com/tourchgifs/chimage8B.gif
Hebrews tell us that the earthly altars were mere shadows of reality. We do not need these earthly altars now since Jesus has opened the way for us to approach the Heavenly sanctuary and altar through Him.
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Freshman88
Guest
A Catholic altar is anything but Earthly. In fact, almost everything is Holy and thus beyond the Earthly realm during the Holy Sacrifice of the mass.
A solemn Tridentine mass makes a point of blessing just about everything, for this very point.
p.s. why is the Canadian flag beside the Scottish flag, or perhaps that’s Nova Scotia?
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Freshman88
Guest
The Divine is not limited by time, God is beyond time. The sacrifice of the mass and the sacrifice on Calvary are one and the same, Christ’s sacrifice transcends time.
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
If it is another sacrifice of Jesus doesn’t it mean you are playing the Romans by putting him on the cross again?
I’m pretty sure the bread and wine is just symbolic of believing that Jesus is High Priest (bread) who takes your prayers of repentance to God to make atonement for you in the New Covenant (wine), not really anything more than that.
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2ndGen
Guest
A communion table? Altar.
What takes place on the communion table?
The re-enactment of Jesus’ request that we remember Him with a ritual sacramental act?
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s beautiful what your church has.
Now, does Hebrews or any book in The Bible tell us that the part of The Law that includes Altars in Churches was done away with?
I’ve heard the sentiment that “we don’t need an altar anymore since Jesus died”, but I’ve never seen that expressed in Scripture.
So does that make this and unbiblical belief?
(Please don’t feel disresepected, I’m asking honestly with a sincere interest on where this belief that has just appeared in Christianity in recent history is based on)
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HannahLisa
Guest
All of the Episcopal churches I have been in have altars with rails. They also have a candle which is lit when there is any of the Body and Blood at the altar. When the candle is lit, you genuflect at the altar.
The Methodist church I went to had an altar rail and a table which served as an altar. It had a cross on it at all times. The podium was behind it.
The non-denominational churches I have been to do not have altars at all.
The Foursquare church I am currently going to has an altar (table on wheels, pretty much) which they bring out on Communion Sundays (first Sunday of the month).
The altar at the Catholic chapel/church at my college is basically a table made out of stone. There is no altar rail. The altar at the Cistercian abbey nearby is the same way, but they have an altar rail.
The Methodist church I went to had an altar rail and a table which served as an altar. It had a cross on it at all times. The podium was behind it.
The non-denominational churches I have been to do not have altars at all.
The Foursquare church I am currently going to has an altar (table on wheels, pretty much) which they bring out on Communion Sundays (first Sunday of the month).
The altar at the Catholic chapel/church at my college is basically a table made out of stone. There is no altar rail. The altar at the Cistercian abbey nearby is the same way, but they have an altar rail.
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2ndGen
Guest
Watch this Hannah as I bring our faiths together almost seamlessly!
All of the Catholic Churches I have been in have altars. They also have 7 candles which are lit when there is any of the Body and Blood at the altar. When the candles are lit, you genuflect at the altar.
The Older Catholic Church I went to had an altar rail and a table which served as an altar. It had a crucifix on it at all times. The podium was to the side of it.
The non-denominational churches I have been to do not have altars.
The Foursquare church I am currently going to has an altar (table on wheels, pretty much) which they bring out on Communion Sundays (first Sunday of the month).
The altar at the Catholic chapel/church at my college is basically a table made out of stone. There is no altar rail. The altar at the Cistercian abbey nearby is the same way, but they have an altar rail.
See how beautiful the things we share are?
Change a few words and we are nearly identical.
And that fills my heart!
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HannahLisa
Guest
HannahLisa;3199142:
I never noticed the seven candles in Catholic churches. I don’t think they have that at the abbey or my college chapel, which is probably why…The Episcopal churches have other candles on the altar, but one in particular shows whether the Body or Blood is present.Watch this Hannah as I bring our faiths together almost seamlessly!
All of the Catholic Churches I have been in have altars. They also have 7 candles which are lit when there is any of the Body and Blood at the altar. When the candles are lit, you genuflect at the altar.
The Older Catholic Church I went to had an altar rail and a table which served as an altar. It had a crucifix on it at all times. The podium was to the side of it.
See how beautiful the things we share are?
Change a few words and we are nearly identical.
And that fills my heart!
The most beautiful altars I have seen (in my opinion
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2ndGen
Guest
2ndGen;3199154:
Take a bible, read the Book of Revelations while sitting in a Catholic Church.I never noticed the seven candles in Catholic churches. I don’t think they have that at the abbey or my college chapel, which is probably why…The Episcopal churches have other candles on the altar, but one in particular shows whether the Body or Blood is present.
The most beautiful altars I have seen (in my opinion
You will physically see The Church of Christ as described in The Bible.
Ditto on Episcopalian Christian artwork. I love their churches.
But in my opinion, nothing compares to Saint Peter’s Cathedral.
Not bragging, but the artwork there are literally the world’s masterpieces.
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SyCarl
Guest
It is a communiontable because there was no altar at the Last Supper. It was just a table in the upper room of a house.
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2ndGen
Guest
The table was used as The Altar or the sacrifice that Jesus offered up in His Body.
Jesus turned that table into an altar when he proclaimed his death and initiated the sacrament of the Eucharist. It was His ritual which He told us to perform without limit, without extinction and without cancellation date.
In the field, a military Chaplain can perform this sacrament on any table.
Matthew 23:19
“You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering?”
Pretty cool quote, isn’t it?
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SyCarl
Guest
I don’t really think that this passage is really applicable anymore. Jesus’ offering was Himself. How can any altar be more important than Him?
Matthew 23:19
“You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering?”
Pretty cool quote, isn’t it?
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2ndGen
Guest
It was Jesus who made the altar important as He dictates what is and what isn’t Holy.
Remember, He never ever stated (nor has any Apostle ever taught) that the altar was no longer valid. In fact, what makes the altar valid is The Law and what did Jesus say about The Law? That not even one letter of The Law would be invalid and that it would be in effect until His return.
So therefore, as part of The Law, it is still valid (that is why it is used in the past, in the present and in the future as shown in Revelations).
Why hasn’t anybody shown me a scripture that states that that part of The Law (as stipulated in Leviticus) was done away with?
(Oh, not said saracastically at you directly
)
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Freshman88
Guest
It isn’t another sacrifice, it IS the sacrifice.
All sinners play the role of the Romans and Jews. It is because we have sinned, and continue to sin, that Christ was put on that cross. That is one of the reasons why Catholics have such a deep devotion to the Cross, it is a reminder that he was put up there because of our faults, past, current, and future.
Well if you’ve been here long enough, then I’m sure your aware that Catholics take the words “This is my body” very seriously. The Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, and to take the Eucharist is a deep act of communion. That is why the mass has so many rubrics and traditions surrounding it, we believe that this is the pinnacle of Catholic life. There is nothing more important then our union with Christ and the mass takes us there, physically and spiritually.
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Freshman88
Guest
That is a good point, I’d be curious to see what Catholic theologians think of this. Surely the altar upon which the sacrifice of God isn’t more important then the actual sacrifice of Jesus blood and body. As important as the altar is (and it is absolutely necessary), what truly matters is the flesh of Christ which we receive. I don’t go to mass to adorn the altar, I go to adorn Christ.
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