B
bear06
Guest
It is rather silly to say that his close associates protect his privacy but then turn around and say that one of them leaked it. 
- Status
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
I can remember what it was like to serve as altar boy at a pre-Vatican II Mass or what is now called TLM.
It was a very solemn worship and was carried out in a most reverent way. I did catch a special on EWTN this week which delt with the return to the TLM. It was interesting that by their estimates it will take a minimum of 10 years to incorporate the TLM into mainstream Roman Catholicism.
This is a sea change in that, there are no extraordinary Eucharistic ministers (male or female), no female altar servers, the priests, deacons altar servers face the altar leading, as it were, the faithful to Christ. You kneel at the altar rail for Communion, and receive ONLY on the tongue.
I see a coexistence between the New Order Mass and the TLM which will give many Catholics a choice.
Will there be any friction between the two in so far as who is doing it “right”. Hard to say, but according to EWTN both Masses will be right.
J
jj2011
Guest
It should perhaps be noted that the TLM is basically the ancient Roman Rite from the Gregorian Sacramentary, but with later developments/“accretions” such as private prayers for communion and ablutions, the Last Gospel, prayers at the foot of the altar, offertory, etc.
The heart of this Liturgy, the Roman Canon, goes back literally to the earliest centuries of church history, when east and west were united.
The heart of this Liturgy, the Roman Canon, goes back literally to the earliest centuries of church history, when east and west were united.
B
BobP123
Guest
Does this mean we should trust only “named” sources? Especially from a Jesuit?
How does he know what the Pope does in private every minute of the day?
W
Walking_Home
Guest
Interesting comments by Fr. Z on the CWN vs. CNS controversy.
wdtprs.com/blog/2007/07/cns-v-cwn-on-benedict-xvi-using-older-mass-in-private/
wdtprs.com/blog/2007/07/cns-v-cwn-on-benedict-xvi-using-older-mass-in-private/
D
DustinsDad
Guest
My first thought was that it resembled what happened in the Mexico thing with pro-abort politicians. The pope says something (or in this case, does) something that causes traditionalists to be happy - and vatican officials rush out to pour cold water on it. :juggle:
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
But that’s the point: Is he, in fact, “doing” something? With all due respect to Fr. Z, the Vatican spokesman, Fr. Lombardi, says no. Now, the Pope seems like a pretty sharp cookie. I’d bet he’d be a little unhappy with his “press secretary” for lying (granted, it wouldn’t be strange in secular governments, but this is the Holy See). So do we listen to CWN’s unamed sources OR to the guy the Holy Father pays to take care of this? Unamed sources or the guy the Holy Father can call into his office any time he wants?
A
Aramis
Guest
I’ll put my trust in the Magisterium… and thus Fr. Lombardi… instead of unnamed sources.
Has he said latin masses? Without doubt.
Were they 1962 missal? Perhaps on occasion, perhaps not.
Is it his norm? doubtful, given Rev. Fr. Lombardi’s comments.
Has he said latin masses? Without doubt.
Were they 1962 missal? Perhaps on occasion, perhaps not.
Is it his norm? doubtful, given Rev. Fr. Lombardi’s comments.
B
BobP123
Guest
I’ll trust Fr. Z on this one. He seems to make the most sense.
Also, I remember the effort that the liberals put out back in the 80’s to suppress the report given by the nine cardinals in favor of the TLM. Not to mention suppressing the TLM altogether after VII.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
Knowing the opposition to the MP Pope Benedict had to face–it would seem likely that knowledge that he says the TLM would be suppressed.
A
AlexV
Guest
“Trust the Magisterium…Father Lombardi is the Magisterium…”
Huh? He is? Since when?
Neither is Father Zulhsdorf…but let’s get a grip. Pretty soon some people will have us think it’s infallible that the pope does or doesn’t use the certain Missal.
Sheesh.
Huh? He is? Since when?
Neither is Father Zulhsdorf…but let’s get a grip. Pretty soon some people will have us think it’s infallible that the pope does or doesn’t use the certain Missal.
Sheesh.
T
TraditionalCath
Guest
he really is a wonderful pope:thumbsup:
G
Genghis
Guest
Our priest converted the daily chapel to ad orientem and says the NO Mass there, in English, but facing ad orientem or versus populum at the corresponding times during the Mass (as it is in the instructions) and he explained to us that is how the Pope does it.No offense to CWN but the pope has always wanted the Novus Ordo Mass ad orientem so I wouldn’t exactly say this is proof that he is saying the TLM in private. From what I’ve been told by people who actually know him personally, he prefers the Novus Ordo as called for by the council but doesn’t have a problem and will say the TLM. If you ever go to Fr. Fessio’s retreat house, you will also see an altar set up for ad orientem but he says the Novus Ordo exclusively.
B
BobP123
Guest
The Novus Ordo was not called for by any council. But I think eventually the Pope will want to bring both forms into what the council called for. Latin, chant, organ, etc.
D
DustinsDad
Guest
I’d hazard a guess that the Holy Father says both masses. Either way, no big deal to me…bigger fish to fry and things to toss about in the ol’ grey matter. I’d say that even if he just says the TLM on a semi regular basis that’d be great. Ah, but either way…I think his MP speaks for itself.
Yep - but I don’t think this Holy Father is inclined to get into this little tit-for-tat…he’s got bigger fish to fry too. Besides, one must wonder how many “traditional friendly” Vatican officials there actually are - the Holy Father just ruffled alot of feathers and may be playing his cards close to the vest on these miniscule side issues.
Yeah, “unnamed sources” does pretty much nip the story in the bud for now.
Peace in Christ,
DustinsDad
B
BobP123
Guest
Yes, Bugnini did make a point of that.
Except this time, I hope people don’t leave the Church in droves.
- Status