Report of First Weekend of Public Masses

[Usige]

No one should have to risk their life or their health to do their job.

While I don’t necessarily disagree, it’s important to remember that this is not a “job” for clergy but a vocation. Those are two very different things. It is no different than being a spouse or parent.

As a father I have a duty to take care of my family because it is part of the vocation of parenthood, not a job that I can pickup or leave off based on circumstances. As an older priest was telling me yesterday, he is very conflicted about staying in the rectory because, in his words, he has a sacred duty to minister to his flock. He said that he has been fortunate that he has been able to find younger priests to administer last rites in his place, but he said he would still go if there is no one else that could because that is what God has called him to do.

 

[27lw]

27lw:

I wonder if our pastor would consider “elder only” Mass time? I don’t know why anyone would want to attend when there are a bunch of kids with no masks.

Possibly because not everyone wishes to live in fear and don’t choose to see every child as a plague carrier? The saddest masses I’ve been to are the ones where there are no sounds of children.

The worst part of this pandemic is people looking at each other in fear and questioning their motives as being selfish.

Huh. Maybe you should tell everyone to open all the schools back up then.

 

[Usige]

Huh. Maybe you should tell everyone to open all the schools back up then.

We home school because of the toxic things kids do to each other and the garbage fed into their heads by teachers, so I’m fine if schools stay closed for no other reason than that.

I’m thinking we should all just walk around in Level A hazmat suits. Not just today, but forever since there are always health hazards out there. Wouldn’t it be cool for us all to cocoon our selves like this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[HomeschoolDad]

With brief stints of speaking at normal volume, six feet is a reasonable amount of physical distancing. When talking loudly or singing, however, the known physics of aerosol production and the known history of outbreaks advocates for much more than six feet of distancing.

It’s just too soon… it’s just too soon. This comment is proof positive.

I know everybody wants to get back to Mass. I know that it is eating alive some of the more devout among us, including those who were used to attending daily Mass, not to be able to receive the sacraments. I am far from the “more devout among us” (a failing for which I am fully culpable) and I don’t like it either.

If I understood correctly, back during the 1918 flu epidemic, they cancelled public Masses for five months. How is now different from then?

27lw:

Huh. Maybe you should tell everyone to open all the schools back up then.

We home school because of the toxic things kids do to each other and the garbage fed into their heads by teachers, so I’m fine if schools stay closed for no other reason than that.

We homeschool for those and many other reasons.

Opening schools back up, even possibly in the fall — everyone will just have to wait and see what the numbers look like by then — is just crazy. I can’t begin to imagine a place harder to practice “social distancing” on a long-term, consistent basis, than a school. They are already talking about having staggered school schedules where one cohort of students goes at one time, and another cohort goes at another time, to reduce crowding. I’m at loggerheads with myself to try and figure out how that is going to work. Will the teachers work twice as many hours? Will they hire more teachers? From where? No extracurricular activities? No sports? Is everyone going to be wearing masks all the time? Six hours is a long time to wear a mask. If they can make it work, more power to them, but I’m not optimistic.

 

[tomarin]

So, essentially what you’re saying is, our priests are disposable?

 

[PetraG]

So, essentially what you’re saying is, our priests are disposable?

He’s talking about administering Last Rites. There are priests who have hazarded life on the front lines in order to be available to do that. That doesn’t make them “disposable.” It means that what they’re doing is invaluable.

I would say that our Archbishop is putting restrictions on gatherings because the sacraments are unimportant, but because protecting his flock from harm is important. Yes, that includes our priests, too. Crowds engaged in singing together or sharing meals or talking loudly (especially over more than a short time) spread this virus. There is no cure for it, and it is posing a serious threat to the lives not just of the elderly or those with chronic health conditions but also to the people who render them care.

 

[PetraG]

Wouldn’t it be cool for us all to cocoon our selves like this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

There are risks in that, too. Our immune system needs some work to do!!

 

[Anne1964]

We had two outdoor Masses today: one EF and one OF. About 60 people showed up for each Mass.

It was HOT at over 80 degrees outside. No one wore masks at either Mass and there was a good mix of ages from infants to elderly present. Chairs were placed singly or in groups for families, to maintain social distancing.

Everyone in my parish receives COTT with the exception of 3 or 4 people, and that is how Communion was distributed today.

People maintained social distance during Mass but after Mass everyone gathered in their normal social groups although there was no hugging or handshaking.

 

[tomarin]

I would think they’d be safer administering last rites than saying mass, as they come into contact with many more people in the latter than the former. I don’t know why he brought up last rites.

 

[kwitz]

We “went” to Mass last night in Sioux Falls which had just opened. My husband and I both commented on how wonderful it was to hear a baby crying. After weeks of watching Masses where it is just a celebrant and perhaps a reader or cantor, seeing and hearing other people was awesome. We open up here in St. Louis tomorrow. I’m not sure I’m ready to join in a public celebration of Mass yet, but I’m glad that those who are have the option with strict guidelines.

 

[Usige]

If I understood correctly, back during the 1918 flu epidemic, they cancelled public Masses for five months. How is now different from then ?

That really depends on the region. Once the armistice for world war 1 happened, they had difficulties re-enabling quarantine in my state. They attempted a couple times, but groups marched on the capital and some measures lasted less that 4 hours before they were overturned (this included objections to wearing masks, closing theaters, trolley car drivers being required to deny people from riding trolleys in downtown, et cetera). In another regional city, we have the diary of one local pastor from that time and he stated in the diary that they suspended masses for 4 weeks from mid November to mid December of 1918 and they resumed masses the week before Christmas as they felt that the risk was reduced enough that they could not deny people mass at such an important season. Despite an increase in cases in December 1918 and January 1919, they decided not to continue the quarantine because of the continued public outcry or people skirting the measures (i.e. wearing masks over their mouth, but not their nose or having the mask on their chins only to pull up when an official approached).

In many ways I would say it isn’t very different. In my area maybe 40-65% of people wear a mask (depend on where I am at), but I’d estimate that maybe 40% of those are wearing them wrong (over their mouth, but not their nose; hanging loose; etc)

The biggest difference I think is that today people are fed a steady diet of statistics on the numbers that have died over the nation and the whole world versus having much less national or world coverage 100 years ago. I believe that fact makes many people see their risk as the same whether they live in NYC or a town of 3,000.

I fear the long term social repercussions of hundreds of millions living in a constant state of fear for month or years on end.

 

[Peeps]

None of the pastors like it, either. I don’t know of anybody who has broken a hip yet, but you know it has to happen. Older people are clearly at a much higher risk than younger with this stuff.

With brief stints of speaking at normal volume, six feet is a reasonable amount of physical distancing. When talking loudly or singing, however, the known physics of aerosol production and the known history of outbreaks advocates for much more than six feet of distancing.

The good thing about most parish churches is at least that the ceilings tend to be extremely high. Having said that, I think outdoor Masses would be far safer than indoor, even if that is by no means the liturgical ideal. Yes, I’d say that businesses would do well to highly discourage use of their restrooms by the public, to the extent practically possible.

We may find as time goes by that skilled nursing facilities were not just places with a high number of older and frail people but also places with a lot of people living in close quarters and served by staff who don’t have time for proper hygiene procedures. I mean this: we may find that staff working in these homes have higher infection and death rates than people of their age in the general population, because there is such an unusual number being infected by a very high viral load that overwhelms their immune response.

I agree with everything you’ve written, including the outdoor Masses. I know they usually aren’t allowed, but I’ve seen them done at our parish (with some kind of special permission given), and Jesus did plenty of outdoor events!

 

[Usige]

There are risks in that, too. Our immune system needs some work to do!!

I completely agree. I am really saying that people that are looking for 100% safety are unrealistic. There is a very real danger that people who would likely be asymptomatic if they did acquire Covid-19 are impacting the rest of their acquired immunity system.

It’s like a friend of ours who complained that her daughter was always sick when my kids generally weren’t despite the fact that she wiped down everything with antibacterial wipes and soap. Her pediatrician eventually told her to let her daughter lick dirt so that she could build up immunity to common viruses. One of the scariest places I ever worked was in a hospital, especially after infectious disease classes. Most of our measures to wipe out pathogens are indiscriminate; we wipe out the good and benign along with the “bad bugs”. The result is that many time the “bad bugs” no longer have competition with the benign variety and they can then colonize much easier. That also leaves aside “super bugs” that are resistant to antibacterials.

(and yes I know we are talking about a virus versus bacteria, but am really talking about the dangers of trying to ward off everything without acknowledging that there are downsides to be considered too)

 

[27lw]

I don’t think that my idea is so bad - have one Mass where everyone is required to wear a mask. Like having a shopping hour for elderly / immuno-suppressed.

 

[Usige]

I don’t think that my idea is so bad - have one Mass where everyone is required to wear a mask. Like having a shopping hour for elderly / immuno-suppressed.

If that was done while also allowing for masses that do not require masks to be worn by anyone, I would be fine with that compromise. What I object to is a requirement that people do things to pander to the fear of others with no other options. It’s why I support the option for people that wish to receive the Eucharist on the tongue to receive at the end of distribution, after mass, or via a specific COTT minister as a compromise to those that fear the COTT is a health hazard. I don’t support blanket bans that only allow CITH even if there are clergy or EMHCs that are willing to distribute in that fashion.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

If I understood correctly, back during the 1918 flu epidemic, they cancelled public Masses for five months. How is now different from then ?

That really depends on the region. Once the armistice for world war 1 happened, they had difficulties re-enabling quarantine in my state. They attempted a couple times, but groups marched on the capital and some measures lasted less that 4 hours before they were overturned (this included objections to wearing masks, closing theaters, trolley car drivers being required to deny people from riding trolleys in downtown, et cetera). In another regional city, we have the diary of one local pastor from that time and he stated in the diary that they suspended masses for 4 weeks from mid November to mid December of 1918 and they resumed masses the week before Christmas as they felt that the risk was reduced enough that they could not deny people mass at such an important season. Despite an increase in cases in December 1918 and January 1919, they decided not to continue the quarantine because of the continued public outcry or people skirting the measures (i.e. wearing masks over their mouth, but not their nose or having the mask on their chins only to pull up when an official approached).

In many ways I would say it isn’t very different. In my area maybe 40-65% of people wear a mask (depend on where I am at), but I’d estimate that maybe 40% of those are wearing them wrong (over their mouth, but not their nose; hanging loose; etc)

People need to learn to do what they’re told. They needed to back then, and they need to now.

In Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore, they get this. And their numbers are low. Those are societies where people understand that the community, and the good of that community, is more important than what the individual wants, likes, prefers, or finds convenient or agreeable. We need to be more like them, at least where this potentially deadly virus is concerned. Being a rugged individualist or a free agent has its time and place. This isn’t one of those times or places.

 

[Buks]

I read that Australia is also faring pretty well, and although the norms of their society may be different than South Korea and Japan, when I was in Oz I was impressed by the difference with US culture - less trying to get ahead of others, not putting one’s self first. That was sixteen years ago, but I imagine it hasn’t changed much, and may be a factor in how things go in a pandemic.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I read that Australia is also faring pretty well, and although the norms of their society may be different than South Korea and Japan, when I was in Oz I was impressed by the difference with US culture - less trying to get ahead of others, not putting one’s self first. That was sixteen years ago, but I imagine it hasn’t changed much, and may be a factor in how things go in a pandemic.

I’ve heard many good things along these lines about Australia. More to the point, I have heard that “the average little guy” is valued, and “upping oneself” — trying to get ahead where others are not — is very much disliked. Canada is like this to some very small extent — in this respect, “Canada’s got a little of what Australia’s got a lot of”. Too many times, in the United States, it feels like it’s all about “money and me”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Also a good point. I personally would wonder, if we could have 6 weeks of Communion Services, why not just have the whole Mass?

 

[Usige]

True. A communion service is very similar (risk wise) to Mass as it has most of the same elements and physical presence.

To be honest I don’t think people are actually describing a communion service (i.e. Liturgy of the Word with Distribution of Holy Communion) so much as they are describing distribution of the Eucharist outside of Mass. It would likely be more analogous to going to a nursing home and distributing to 20 residents in their individual rooms. We of course have guidelines for distribution that way, but it is not a preferred method if they can gather.

If it was done I would say it couldn’t be done as a drive up, but would require each group to get out of the car. This is because when they are in the car you would have people handing the Eucharist around the car with all that it entails. It should also then be limited to once a month or once a quarter and only if it is foreseen that it would be a signifant time before people could return to Mass.