Report: Pa. bishop rejects Tridentine Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Uxor
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
gcc_catholic,

Both of us were posting simultaneously, so I just now saw your good information. How true it is that our clergy is diminishing here, due to the advanced age of most of our priests. I’m wondering if you saw the projected statistics that anticipate only 52 priests in 2015? The average age falls presently between 60 and 64, and when they pass on, it will mean the remaining priests will have to serve more than one parish (which many already do).

This may be something that is hindering the Motu Proprio, as more and more bishops reported similar startling statistics to the Holy Father. The TLM may ultimately be permitted, but it may not be at all feasible.

Thanks for the link. I missed it the first time around.
 
KathleenElsie said:
The Eastern Rite Mass can not take the place of a Roman Rite Mass for the Sunday obligation. So this still leaves us with what is approved by our bishop.
Click to expand...
That is blantently false. Any Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy (the proper term) performed by an Eastern Rite Catholic Church, completely fulfills your Sunday obligations.

In addition, the Eastern Rite Catholic Church has their own Dioceses (Sometimes called Eparchy) that are completely separate from the Latin Rite Diocese. These dioceses do overlap.
 
gcc_catholic said:
Ignatius2000, have you tried any of the parishes near Indiana aside from the Newman Center? You may have more luck there. At my home parish (about 30 minutes from you) we don’t have issues to the degree you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have done some parish shopping up here. I’ve been to St. Bernard of Clarvaux, The Church of The Good Shepherd (I like it the best), and St. Louis in Homer City.

Out of curiosity, where is your home parish? I may have to take a road trip this weekend…
 
Joysong said:
Whoa, there, miss Kathleen and Ignatius!

I believe there is a bann on posting names of clergy in a derogatory light without proof. Do you KNOW for a fact that he personally does not permit the TLM? And if he denies it, that he does not have a valid reason? Or that just possibly there are not enough people who desire it in his area? And remember, the M. P. has not been issued.

Brandt is a new bishop in his diocese and has never given any such statement that would suggest factually that he is anti-TLM.

(A member of his diocese who reads the Accent)
Click to expand...
I’ve been under the understanding a Bishop doesn’t need to wait on the moto propio.
 
KathleenElsie said:
Just remember that there are many of us that live under the opinions of bishops like this one. When I first read the title of this thread I thought they were talking of Bishop Brandt and they well could have been.😦
Click to expand...
Ha!! That was my first thought too!
 
Ignatius2000 said:
I really wouldn’t be surprised if the article was pointing towards Brant either. My home is in the Pittsburgh diocese and I’m very happy with the TLM Whurl allowed at St. Boniface (wonderful liturgy, my first TLM). From my experiences with the clergy in my neck of the woods in the Greensburg diocese (I attend IUP in Indiana County) I’m not entirely surprised that no TLM is offered in Western PA outside of Pittsburgh.
Code: 
 Since I began to attend mass at the Newman Center on campus I've felt...dry--like I don't have full access to the wealth of the Catholic Church. Yes, I've access to all the sacraments, but some things are lacking. Take Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament for example...I don't even know if the Newman Center has a monstrance, yet alone one that would accommodate the style of bread that this parish has consecrated. Yes, it is progressive. Yes, they use music that isn't hymns from 500+ years ago. Yes, they have drums. No, they don't have an altar rail. Liturgy there is more music centered than God centered, and it leaves me feeling dry. All I have to remind myself of the wealth of Catholic Tradition is my rosary and private devotions. They don't even say a rosary before mass--mostly because the "music ministry" is busy practicing at full volume with only 5 minutes of respite for the soul before mass begins.

 It makes me feel quite drained that I don't have full access to all the Church teaches and practices. This is especially bad since my girlfriend is in the process of conversion and cannot experience the fullness the Church has to offer.
Yeah, wouldn’t have surprised me if Brant was the Bishop mentioned in this article.
Click to expand...
Hey! I am an IUP grad and I work at the Indiana County courthouse!

My husband and I have always avoided attending mass at the Newman Center - for all the reasons you mentioned… We used to have a nice mass at St. Bernard. Still not what I’d like, but at least our last priest brought a beauty and dignity that was lacking at the campus church. (well, if you discount the choir directors who love the Haugen and Haas stuff…but I digress) The new priest is very nice, but now we have the hand-shaking thing BEFORE mass as well as during. They are singing more of the older, more reverent music - sometimes (maybe since I complained to one of the choir members) I find myself very unhappy. Too much talking is allowed to go on. To much socializing in the pews around us during mass. It’s just not the same since Msgr. left. We do go to St. Boniface once in awhile. We both love it there, but it’s so far to travel every week. If you are aware of others in the area who want the Traditional mass, (should the Motu Proprio be released), maybe somebody will know of a priest in the area who wants to offer the mass in the traditional rite.
 
Uxor said:
I’ve been under the understanding a Bishop doesn’t need to wait on the moto propio.
Click to expand...
That’s the way that I’ve understood it as well; however, that’s not the point. There is nothing to compel any bishop under the current Indult to provide for the Tridentine Mass. So far, no evidence has been given (neither here nor what I’ve heard elsewhere) that suggests that Bishop Brandt is hostile to the TLM. As far as I’m aware, nothing PUBLIC has been said one way or the other.

Regardless, at this point, the best thing that we (and anyone in any similar diocese) can do is to pray for him, the priests, and the seminarians of the diocese, and for the quick release of the motu proprio.
 
There is nothing to compel any bishop under the current Indult to provide for the Tridentine Mass.
Click to expand...
Given what I’m reading about this diocese and the shortage of priests, would the new guideline “compel” the bishop to make provisions for a rite that would put the clergy at an extraordinary disadvantage when they are already overextended with the rite they are obliged to celebrate?

Somehow, this is not what I believe the Holy Father envisions.

Yes, I encourage all of us to daily pray for our priests. I understand Shoshana has a thread on this ministry – God bless her and all who participate, each in their own way!
 
Rykell said:
Given what I’m reading about this diocese and the shortage of priests, would the new guideline “compel” the bishop to make provisions for a rite that would put the clergy at an extraordinary disadvantage when they are already overextended with the rite they are obliged to celebrate?
Click to expand...
The understanding that I had was that the new guideline would allow priests to say Mass according to the old rubrics without the express permission of the bishop (as it is now). That would allow a priest who was willing to have a Tridentine Mass for the good of those who have requested it. From what I understand, in the particular case of Greensburg, there are priests willing to celebrate the TLM for the group that has requested it; they can make provisions themselves.

Really, we have to see what happens after the motu proprio comes out and we see exactly what it grants and does not grant.
 
Well our four parishes and another from a smaller town have formed a “cluster” of five parishes and this was not even in the options from what I read in the bulletin. But this is what has been handed down by our bishop.
That way we got to keep all open and have five priests but… the agreement is that if any of this nice guys pass on or move or retire well then we have to merge.
And so, we also have to accept that any of these priests can give mass at or hear sacrament of reconciliation at any and there will maybe be more I call mass confession.
I see more unity in this but a lot of confusion too.
Kind of like a school district, I suppose the next step will be to pool all our money together? There is a TLM about and hour away but they are essentially having similar problems so I figure try to fix and stay in my home town and look out for the children. Dessert
 
Joysong said:
Whoa, there, miss Kathleen and Ignatius!

I believe there is a bann on posting names of clergy in a derogatory light without proof. Do you KNOW for a fact that he personally does not permit the TLM? And if he denies it, that he does not have a valid reason? Or that just possibly there are not enough people who desire it in his area? And remember, the M. P. has not been issued.

Brandt is a new bishop in his diocese and has never given any such statement that would suggest factually that he is anti-TLM.

(A member of his diocese who reads the Accent)
Click to expand...
Yes he has been personally asked and petitioned. We were told no.
 
Please understand I am a Roman Catholic. I follow what our bishop says and at this time he has said no to the Latin Mass. But, it is something I desire and pray for.

As for going to the Eastern Rite it has been stated many many times that if we are Roman Catholic and there is a Roman Catholic Mass offered we are expected to go to that one. The other rites are great and they are licit and valid. But as long as there is a Roman Rite available that is the one I will continue to go to.

Peace to you all.
 
Swiss_Guard said:
Serious question - I’m not being sarcastic:

What is the theological problem with the pope overruling a bishop?

Bishop Rifan of the Society of St. John Vianney in Campos, Brazil was given an apostolic administration for his order. They don’t answer to any South American bishop. I haven’t seen a problem with this arrangement.
Click to expand...
The theological problem is in celebrating a Mass which the bishop is known to disapprove of.
If an anti-TLM bishop is badgered and pestered by traditionalists and ultimately, and against his better judgement, allows a TLM then that is not problematic. He has given his permission, so people attend with his blessing. If he is forced to accept the Traditional Mass because of higher authority, and everyone knows his true feelings, then we’ve got a problem. We are meant to offer the Mass in union with the bishop.

It is also undesireable for the Pope to overule his bishops in public. Sometimes it is necessary but it is far better to come to a consensus. That is a slightly different issue.
 
Yes a stark contrast, deliberately chosen to emphasize a point. Can anyone guess what that point is? :hmmm:

It is obvious that the Easter lilies speak of a festive liturgy when one would expect that the “glorious” picture would be full of adornments. How about finding a picture that shows other churches arrayed for Easter, to be completely unbiased and fair? In fact the first picture looks like the vestment is purple, which would be most appropriate for lent when one would expect starkness. And it appears to be a small chapel, as in a convent, rather than a church.

I can post a picture of a dusty stone on a road and contrast it with a diamond to make a similar point. What would it prove, other than I am a good photographer and have a biased motive?

:tsktsk: When will you people stop segregating our unity into “us” versus “them.” And “we” are eminently superior!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top