Republican voters??

[Holly3278]

Remember folks, the one who wins in 08 will nominate at least two Supreme Court Judges. If I were pro-life that will count as a vital point. Mormon or not, I think that a Republican will nominate better judges that Hillary. Those two votes can change the moral landscape of the USA.

I agree. A Republican is more likely to get better judges in than a Democrat such as Hillary is. Also, if you vote straight Republican, you might end up with a majority of Republicans in the house and/or senate and therefore even if the president does try to pass pro-abortion legislation, the pro-life Republicans in the House/Senate will vote against it most likely.

 

[scottm]

That will vary considerably based on the actual wording of the bill and what else is included in the bill, but how much worse would it be if the Democrats got their way since they OPENLY OPPOSE what we believe in!

Republicans as a group openly oppose what we believe in – if actions, not words, are how we measure them.

But again, if you directly support the party that directly opposes your ideology, you will get exactly what you do not want!

Aye, so then, why support the Republican Party? It gives us what we do not want!

I have very little faith in the Republican party since GB1 came to power and none since GB2. But what I do have faith in is that the Democratic party is in direct opposition to the teachings of our Church.

100% agreement there. The Democrats as a group both talk a bad talk and walk a bad walk. They lose on both counts, as a group.

According to your profile you are NOT a Catholic. That explains some things.

Like what? I agreed with all of your moral points.
Query to you: Does God choose people based on media polls?
I say “no.” You should too.

 

[melensdad]

Republicans as a group openly oppose what we believe in – if actions, not words, are how we measure them.
. . .
Aye, so then, why support the Republican Party? It gives us what we do not want!

The current Republican party is pretty gutless, they need to know people expect them to support specific issues. But if you admit that the Democrats actually oppose us in their words and deeds, and if you agree that many of the Republicans cannot be counted on to vote for what they say, then from the pragmatic standpoint, who do you say we vote for? In most states there is only a 2 party system. The really bad Democrats and the partially bad GOP.

Voting for Democrats, at least the current party, is voting for pure evil on every major non-negotiable Catholic position.

Voting for Republicans, at least the current crop, is a gamble. Many will support us much of the time, many will not much of the time, it seems to be a matter of degrees. So with the GOP at least you have a reasonable chance of voting for moral positions and either lessening damage to our society or stopping it.

So while you may agree with the “moral points” that I made, you seem to be open to voting against them if I understand your positions (and I admit I do lack clarity)

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The current Republican party is pretty gutless, they need to know people expect them to support specific issues. But if you admit that the Democrats actually oppose us in their words and deeds, and if you agree that many of the Republicans cannot be counted on to vote for what they say, then from the pragmatic standpoint, who do you say we vote for? In most states there is only a 2 party system. The really bad Democrats and the partially bad GOP.

Voting for Democrats, at least the current party, is voting for pure evil on every major non-negotiable Catholic position.

Voting for Republicans, at least the current crop, is a gamble. Many will support us much of the time, many will not much of the time, it seems to be a matter of degrees. So with the GOP at least you have a reasonable chance of voting for moral positions and either lessening damage to our society or stopping it.

So while you may agree with the “moral points” that I made, you seem to be open to voting against them if I understand your positions (and I admit I do lack clarity)

I disagree…the current Republican party is doing exactly what Republicans have always done and always will…namely, enact policies that benefit a very small minority at the expense of the majority.

They merely USE moral issues that we, as Catholics (and other Christians) hold dear in order to get us to fight for them. If they thought they could win elections by becoming pro-choice, they’d do it in a heartbeat. That’s why I stopped supporting Republicans about two years ago.

And NO, that does not mean that I, therefore, vote for Democrats, either, so don’t even think of going there!

 

[melensdad]

I disagree…the current Republican party is doing exactly what Republicans have always done and always will…namely, enact policies that benefit a very small minority at the expense of the majority.

Please explain.

 

[Ender]

I disagree…the current Republican party is doing exactly what Republicans have always done and always will…namely, enact policies that benefit a very small minority at the expense of the majority.

What a remarkably bad political strategy - shafting the many to benefit the few. Given that the votes of the many are required in order to get elected, such a policy would be political suicide - yet Republicans have held the presidency for twenty of the last twenty-eight years. How to explain this? It would seem to indicate either that half the population is so lacking in intelligence they shouldn’t be let out of their houses without guides or they agree with Republican goals - even if they are currently unhappy with the behavior of certain Republican politicians.

Ender

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Please explain.

Since Republicans took over in 2000, the rich-poor gap has turned into a chasm. The middle class is shrinking and poverty has increased. The offshoring of American jobs has continued unabated and real wages have been dropping. The richest 1% has been getting richer (which wouldn’t matter if all the other stuff in this paragraph weren’t happening).

Meanwhile, all the important factors pertaining to the importance of human life are all down. The abortion rate and teen pregnancy are both up. Life expectancy at birth is down. The infant mortality rate in the United States is one of the worst in the world All this while we have a “pro-life” President and Republican party in absolute control of the country up until early this year.

Seems to me that the things that really matter to Republicans are not the things that matter to Christians. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have resulted in the opposite of what Christians want to see happen.

Now, before anyone asks, I can provide sources for this information, but it won’t be considered acceptable because it’s not generated by Fox “News” or a Republican blogger, but the information is out there.

 

[Ender]

Now, before anyone asks, I can provide sources for this information

Thank you: please provide information showing how Republicans are responsible for the increases in abortion and teen pregnancy, falling life expectancy at birth, and the offshoring (sic) of jobs.

Ender

 

[mary_bobo]

Since Republicans took over in 2000, the rich-poor gap has turned into a chasm. The middle class is shrinking and poverty has increased. The offshoring of American jobs has continued unabated and real wages have been dropping. The richest 1% has been getting richer (which wouldn’t matter if all the other stuff in this paragraph weren’t happening).

Meanwhile, all the important factors pertaining to the importance of human life are all down. The abortion rate and teen pregnancy are both up. Life expectancy at birth is down. The infant mortality rate in the United States is one of the worst in the world All this while we have a “pro-life” President and Republican party in absolute control of the country up until early this year.

Seems to me that the things that really matter to Republicans are not the things that matter to Christians. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have resulted in the opposite of what Christians want to see happen.

Now, before anyone asks, I can provide sources for this information, but it won’t be considered acceptable because it’s not generated by Fox “News” or a Republican blogger, but the information is out there.

If it is truly “news” what does it matter where it comes from? If it is an opinion piece, then that is a different story. All of this post is much too generalized to take seriously.

 

[melensdad]

The offshoring of American jobs has continued unabated and real wages have been dropping.

I am very familiar with this particular issue. It is commonly referred to as the Wal-Martification of industry.

I’m not so sure this falls into a “blame the Republicans” sort of an issue. Here is how it works, and I do have 1st hand experience with selling products to Wal Mart so I have more than a casual clue about this.

Wal Mart calls up and says they want to sell your goods. They start to buy from you and become a big customer. Then about a year later they call you in for a presentation and tell you what they will pay you for your item. You tell them you can’t sell it at that price and then they tell you that you can move your factory to some offshore nation, they will even supply you with contacts. Customers who shop Wal Mart demand ever lower prices, this puts pressure on Wal Mart to make the demands on you. KMart and other discounters also put pressure on Wal Mart. So now you are faced with a choice.
–Do you sell to them at a loss?
–Do you move your production overseas and cut American jobs?
–Do you give up the sales and lay off a large % of your workforce?

Who is to blame?
–Consumers because they will only buy the cheapest priced goods?
–Factory owners because they choose to stay in business and are forced to move jobs offshore?
–Retailers who want to remain competitive?

I would suggest that neither Republicans nor Democrats are to blame for this. But it is one reason jobs are moving offshore, and that is leading to lower wages here, which puts more pressure on Wal Mart/KMart/Costco/Etc to find lower and lower cost production to satisfy the needs of the shoppers.

 

[rlg94086]

I am very familiar with this particular issue. It is commonly referred to as the Wal-Martification of industry.

I’m not so sure this falls into a “blame the Republicans” sort of an issue. Here is how it works, and I do have 1st hand experience with selling products to Wal Mart so I have more than a casual clue about this.

Wal Mart calls up and says they want to sell your goods. They start to buy from you and become a big customer. Then about a year later they call you in for a presentation and tell you what they will pay you for your item. You tell them you can’t sell it at that price and then they tell you that you can move your factory to some offshore nation, they will even supply you with contacts. Customers who shop Wal Mart demand ever lower prices, this puts pressure on Wal Mart to make the demands on you. KMart and other discounters also put pressure on Wal Mart. So now you are faced with a choice.
–Do you sell to them at a loss?
–Do you move your production overseas and cut American jobs?
–Do you give up the sales and lay off a large % of your workforce?

Who is to blame?
–Consumers because they will only buy the cheapest priced goods?
–Factory owners because they choose to stay in business and are forced to move jobs offshore?
–Retailers who want to remain competitive?

I would suggest that neither Republicans nor Democrats are to blame for this. But it is one reason jobs are moving offshore, and that is leading to lower wages here, which puts more pressure on Wal Mart/KMart/Costco/Etc to find lower and lower cost production to satisfy the needs of the shoppers.

Thanks melensdad. I knew Wal-Mart is a very aggressive negotiator, but you summed up the cycle very well. What is the solution? As a consumer, I often look for the best deal, but I don’t like to drive around chasing coupons or advertised loss-leaders. It happens that Wal-Mart has the best all-around pricing, so they are on our short list of stores. With a family of 6-7 (we have an extra teenager living with us this year), we have to consider our budget.

As a businessman, I understand the profit/pricing pressures my customers have (I am not in retail, but the principles are the same). The companies have to compete, otherwise they can and do end up with negative profit. Contrary to what anti-business voices believe, it is not all about greed.

EDIT ADD - just realized this is off-topic…I’m going to cut/paste to create another thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=189677

 

[melensdad]

Thanks melensdad. I knew Wal-Mart is a very aggressive negotiator, but you summed up the cycle very well. What is the solution? As a consumer, I often look for the best deal, but I don’t like to drive around chasing coupons or advertised loss-leaders. It happens that Wal-Mart has the best all-around pricing, so they are on our short list of stores. With a family of 6-7 (we have an extra teenager living with us this year), we have to consider our budget.

As a businessman, I understand the profit/pricing pressures my customers have (I am not in retail, but the principles are the same). The companies have to compete, otherwise they can and do end up with negative profit. Contrary to what anti-business voices believe, it is not all about greed.

EDIT ADD - just realized this is off-topic…I’m going to cut/paste to create another thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=189677

It is NOT just Wal-Mart, but as the biggest retailer they have the most clout. What gets me is that people blame a political party for this, but it really is consumers who push Wal-Mart/etc to do this. 90% of all toys are now made in China. The vast majority of our shoes, clothes, etc are also foreign made. Why? Because US made products cannot compete on PRICE. We can compete on QUALITY and some of the more expensive brands of clothes are still made here, but when price is KING then the US can’t compete.

There are lots of reasons why. Higher wages are PART of the problem but whenever “living wage” bills are enacted, some more jobs go overseas. Other contributors are ENVIRONMENTAL regulations, we have very strict standards here but other nations do not. So the cost to build & maintain a factory is much higher here. Other factors include TAXES, not limited to property tax, FICA, unemployment, etc. Other costs are REGULATORY costs that are very high here in the US. Other costs are material costs being higher in the US than in many developing nations, and much of that is related to REGULATION and TAXES.

But again, I don’t see this as an issue that we can blame one political party or the other. We could set up import taxes and protect our jobs, but that would artificially inflate prices. We did it in the 1960s and early 70’s for the auto industry but they didn’t work and people bought Japanese cars anyway because they produced cars that people wanted. So the same would happen if we tried it now, and it would keep prices high. How is that good? So are the Democrats to blame or the Republicans? I would suggest that a careful examination of this issue is that NEITHER party is to blame.

I would also suggest that we should hold other nations to higher standards on things like environmental regulations because as we export our jobs, we also close down low pollution plants here while high pollution plants open up all over the 3rd world.

 

[scottm]

Seems to me that the things that really matter to Republicans are not the things that matter to Christians. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have resulted in the opposite of what Christians want to see happen.

Preach it, brother!

Indeed, we are in trouble if we vote Democrat and we’re in trouble if we vote Republican. So, then, why are we voting for either one?

If all of the morally-attuned Christians and our mirror-image twins in the Mormon and Islamic and whatever-whatever churches stopped voting for the two bad Parties and instead voted for a good party, we’d lose the first Presidential election. But we lose some election anyway SO THAT DOESN’T MATTER.

But you know what? We’d win the 2nd election.

We’d win because when you add up all the Christians and all the Mormons and all the Moslems and whoever else shares our beliefs, you have a very very big number. Big number. And it’s enough.

It’s just that almost all of those people lack the courage of their convictions to stop voting Two Party System. They have no courage.

Yes, I look down on people who say “Republicans do bad things” but then vote Republican every two years. There, I said it. You’re a hypocrite the same as the politicians. Yes, I said it. Sue me, slap me, t-p my house, key my car, give me the evil eye, but think about it. Your vote contradicts your words.

 

[rlg94086]

Preach it, brother!

Indeed, we are in trouble if we vote Democrat and we’re in trouble if we vote Republican. So, then, why are we voting for either one?

If all of the morally-attuned Christians and our mirror-image twins in the Mormon and Islamic and whatever-whatever churches stopped voting for the two bad Parties and instead voted for a good party, we’d lose the first Presidential election. But we lose some election anyway SO THAT DOESN’T MATTER.

But you know what? We’d win the 2nd election.

We’d win because when you add up all the Christians and all the Mormons and all the Moslems and whoever else shares our beliefs, you have a very very big number. Big number. And it’s enough.

It’s just that almost all of those people lack the courage of their convictions to stop voting Two Party System. They have no courage.

Yes, I look down on people who say “Republicans do bad things” but then vote Republican every two years. There, I said it. You’re a hypocrite the same as the politicians. Yes, I said it. Sue me, slap me, t-p my house, key my car, give me the evil eye, but think about it. Your vote contradicts your words.

Let me know when you find this mythical third party, which will unite all of the faithful.

The reality is that we wouldn’t just be a third party - rather a third, fourth and maybe more. Life issues aren’t the only thing people disagree on. So, feel free and vote whatever way will make you happy, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you are going to unite a large group of people.

 

[SoCalRC]

Let me know when you find this mythical third party, which will unite all of the faithful.

The reality is that we wouldn’t just be a third party - rather a third, fourth and maybe more. Life issues aren’t the only thing people disagree on. So, feel free and vote whatever way will make you happy, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you are going to unite a large group of people.

The Constitution Party is ultra conservative and already on the ballot in 41 states…

The problem is that we give lip service to God, but then convince ourselves that it is not practical to fully vote our faith. Some folks convince themselves that they are voting their faith, because they can elevate a single teaching to special status. But the Church has specifically told us otherwise:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html

Notice the paragraph in #4, immediately following the concept of “limiting the harm” of unjust laws:

“In this context, it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals. The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church’s social doctrine does not exhaust one’s responsibility towards the common good. Nor can a Catholic think of delegating his Christian responsibility to others; rather, the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives him this task, so that the truth about man and the world might be proclaimed and put into action.”

Bottom line, when we are confronted with the choice of either standing with God against seemingly unsurmountable odds, or putting our faith in earthly political power, we all too often choose the latter.

You heard it hear first, but I predict that all the hub bub about folks like Dobson threatening to bolt the GOP if a cross dressing, pro gay, pro abortion, serial womanizer becomes the nominee will vanish. There will be a meeting, doubts will have been answered, and business will continue as usual. Once you have chosen power over principle and tasted success, it is extremely hard to make a leap of faith back to Christ.

 

[rlg94086]

The Constitution Party is ultra conservative and already on the ballot in 41 states…

Please reread my post. The Constitution Party has no chance in the world of uniting all the faithful. Where are the liberal pro-lifers going to vote? We have other differences in opinion. There are pro-life Democrats, who choose to place their view of Social Justice ahead of pro-life issues. You won’t find a party that matches the Church 100% that every Catholic will agree on.

Voting Republican is not “giving lip service to God.” Pro-life Republicans, like myself, are doing what we can to keep pushing our politicians to vote pro-life. The Republican Party is pro-life in its platform, but that does not mean that all Republicans are pro-life. I know you are cynical and believe that it is all some party conspiracy, but that is not the case.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Let me know when you find this mythical third party, which will unite all of the faithful.

The reality is that we wouldn’t just be a third party - rather a third, fourth and maybe more. Life issues aren’t the only thing people disagree on. So, feel free and vote whatever way will make you happy, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you are going to unite a large group of people.

Our form of government, with its separation of powers, militates against third parties.

In a parliamentary system, where a handfull of elected members can determine who the next Prime Minister is, small parties can thrive. But our President is elected on his own, and that leaves small parties with little bargaining power.

 

[rlg94086]

Our form of government, with its separation of powers, militates against third parties.

In a parliamentary system, where a handfull of elected members can determine who the next Prime Minister is, small parties can thrive. But our President is elected on his own, and that leaves small parties with little bargaining power.

That is correct. The only way a “third party” will work, is if a large enough group defected from one or both of the two major parties - turning one of them into a third party. It is a nice pipe dream, but not likely to happen. I don’t think we can get enough pro-lifers to a) agree on one party OR b) to desert their current party.

Personally, I will keep working in the party that holds pro-life views as part of its platform and most closely matches my ideology.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Thank you: please provide information showing how Republicans are responsible for the increases in abortion and teen pregnancy, falling life expectancy at birth, and the offshoring (sic) of jobs.

Ender

It would not be up to “par” with the minimum requirements of being generated by Fox, so why bother? I don’t want to get into an argument about sources when anything I post will be have its veracity challenged because it’s not generated by the source deemed acceptable. If you would state here and now that you will be willing to accept sources that do not tow the Republican party ideological line such as Fox, National Review, Free Republic, et al, then I’ll see what I can do.

By the way, I am not saying that Republicans are directly responsible (it’s not the stated intent) but that their polices have resulted in those things. To wit, since Republicans have had total domination over the US government, the results have been an increase of abortions, a lowering of the life expectancy rate, and an increased rate of off shoring. Don’t take what I say out of context.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I am very familiar with this particular issue. It is commonly referred to as the Wal-Martification of industry.

I’m not so sure this falls into a “blame the Republicans” sort of an issue. Here is how it works, and I do have 1st hand experience with selling products to Wal Mart so I have more than a casual clue about this.

Wal Mart calls up and says they want to sell your goods. They start to buy from you and become a big customer. Then about a year later they call you in for a presentation and tell you what they will pay you for your item. You tell them you can’t sell it at that price and then they tell you that you can move your factory to some offshore nation, they will even supply you with contacts. Customers who shop Wal Mart demand ever lower prices, this puts pressure on Wal Mart to make the demands on you. KMart and other discounters also put pressure on Wal Mart. So now you are faced with a choice.
–Do you sell to them at a loss?
–Do you move your production overseas and cut American jobs?
–Do you give up the sales and lay off a large % of your workforce?

Who is to blame?
–Consumers because they will only buy the cheapest priced goods?
–Factory owners because they choose to stay in business and are forced to move jobs offshore?
–Retailers who want to remain competitive?

I would suggest that neither Republicans nor Democrats are to blame for this. But it is one reason jobs are moving offshore, and that is leading to lower wages here, which puts more pressure on Wal Mart/KMart/Costco/Etc to find lower and lower cost production to satisfy the needs of the shoppers.

Republican free-trade policies that remove all incentives to keep jobs in the United States (tariffs) are a major factor in this. Yes, Democrats have also voted for free-trade policies after the Republicans continually served the Kool-Aid on the issue. To a Republican, there is no greater possible evil than a tax (taxes are considered even worse than abortions, which is my point). Since a tariff is a form of taxation, it is completely reprobated, thus must never be considered in making policy for the United States…to a Republican, that is.

Include the fact that there are tax incentives to send American jobs out of the country and you have a double-whammy on the American working person.