Request for Help w/ Understanding LGBT

[davidv]

It would appear that the one being discriminated against would not call it “Just” while the one doing the discriminating would find it quite “Just.” If that makes any sense.

So? Does the criminal think that putting him behind bars is just? But, I guess if one is operating from the ideology of relativism then everything is both just and unjust.

 

[HelenRose]

As a gay man I would say it does appear that some might think wanting to prevent gay people from getting married and adopting children would be considered discrimination.

This means one of several things for the child.

One or both of this child’s parents have died.
One or both of this child’s parents has abandoned the child. (Perhaps for valid reason. But, a child will still feel abandoned.)

A child will always grieve for a lost parent. Adults can pretend that away if they want to. But, the loss is always there.

Two men can not give a child the love of the lost mother.
Two women can not give a child the love of the lost father.

We as a culture, straight or otherwise, have come to the conclusion that the needs of children are less than secondary to the desires of adults. Whether it is a woman who abandons, gives away or sells her child or whether it is a man who abandons, gives away or sells her child, the child suffers.

I find that the trafficking of children - either selling a born baby or selling or giving away sperm or eggs - is an evil practice. A father is suppose to protect his child not sell or give away his child. A mother is suppose to love her child not sell or give away her child.

For what ever reason, losing a mother or a father is a traumatic and dreadful thing for a child. For a child to know that he or she was sold to another by their father or mother has to be a dreadful cross to bear. Many overcome the cross and bear it with grace and dignity but the scars remain.

A child’s need far surpasses the wants of adults.

I am really tired of feeling sorry for adults who feel sorry for themselves at the expense of children.

Can a same sex couple raise a child? Probably. But it is always second best to a loving mother and father who love each other and love the child.

SHRUG away if you want to. But, Biology 101 is more important to the needs of a child than the selfish desires of people who haven’t figured that out yet.

 

[Thorolfr]

I find that the trafficking of children - either selling a born baby or selling or giving away sperm or eggs - is an evil practice. A father is suppose to protect his child not sell or give away his child. A mother is suppose to love her child not sell or give away her child.

How can giving something away, including giving away an egg or sperm, be considered trafficking? When you give something away like this, it can also be a gift. Surely you don’t consider everyone who gives you a gift to be engaging in trafficking.

 

[Thorolfr]

Genetic research is advancing to the day when gay couples could fulfill their dreams of having children related to them both.

Stem cell research has demonstrated that human skin cells and fibroblasts (a different kind of adult cell) can be turned into embryonic stem cells. Now, researchers at Cambridge University and the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel have shown that embryonic stem cells can be programmed to form primordial germ cells. These are the stem cells that can go on to form either eggs or sperm. If scientists can figure out how to turn a primordial germ cell that originated from the skin of a man into an egg, could it be fertilized with his partner’s sperm?

Research using primordial germ cells in mice has shown that these cells can be turned into eggs and sperm capable of forming pups (baby mice). Many experiments were required, but tremendous knowledge was gained.

The upshot: There likely will be a time when reproductive science could create an embryo from the cells of two men or two women.

time.com/3748019/same-sex-couples-biological-children/

 

[Strydersroom]

So? Does the criminal think that putting him behind bars is just? But, I guess if one is operating from the ideology of relativism then everything is both just and unjust.

Comparing homosexuality to any type of crime/disease/abomination is a typical response from those trying to demonize and dehumanize gay people.

 

[phil19034]

How can giving something away, including giving away an egg or sperm, be considered trafficking? When you give something away like this, it can also be a gift. Surely you don’t consider everyone who gives you a gift to be engaging in trafficking.

The contracts that are written for surrogacy are evil, and do NOT protect the mother who is giving birth.

There’s a situation of a single man who wanted some of the kids aborted and when the birth mother said she will keep them (free of charge) the father refused and insisted the kids be aborted. The court ruled in favor of the father. The mother refused to have the abortion and is now being sued for breach of contract because she refused to kill the babies.

Now the father wants to have the kids put up for adoption and the birth mother is not allowed to adopt the kids she gave birth too.

The whole thing is anti-mother / anti-women. Irregardless if it wasn’t her egg, the surrogate should be able to “adopt” any unwanted children.

Also, there are a number of situations where the birth mother isn’t even allowed to hold or even see the child once they give birth. She carries the child for 9 months, grows to love the child, and then isn’t even allowed to know what the child looks like OR know if the child was born healthy.

The whole thing is evil.

 

[Havard]

Comparing homosexuality to any type of crime/disease/abomination is a typical response from those trying to demonize and dehumanize gay people.

I agree that those expressions are inflammatory and I don’t use them, but I encourage you to understand that most people who use them are not trying to demonize or dehumanize you.

A key disconnect here is whether sexuality is a part of identity, as some believe, because if it is, the label is a lot more personal. But many Christians do not think this way. I think a better approach is to acknowledge that we are all good (made in the image and likeness of God), and yet all sinners, in need of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rau]

How can giving something away, including giving away an egg or sperm, be considered trafficking? When you give something away like this, it can also be a gift. Surely you don’t consider everyone who gives you a gift to be engaging in trafficking.

I can recognise the element of “gift” as you put it. But there would seem to the natural obligation to raise our own children. And in general, the child would seem to have the natural right to know and be brought up by his natural parents. Children should not be thought of as tradeable commodities, like a box of chocolates.

 

[davidv]

Comparing homosexuality to any type of crime/disease/abomination is a typical response from those trying to demonize and dehumanize gay people.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Any attempt at demonizing is on you.

Are criminals not human? Why can’t the analogies be accepted for what they are intended?

 

[Rosebud77]

I find the word “gay” to be curious in that it is kind of euphemistic. It’s other meaning (happy, care-free) is never far removed. When I hear the word, the meaning I take is more than an objective description of attractions. I “hear” an embracing of the situation [an idea not at all present for me in the expression “I experience SSA”.] Now clearly this “embracing” idea is not found in the dictionary meaning, but perhaps it lingers from the thinking of those who coined the word by choosing “gay”. I imagine in time that will pass, and the word will increasingly merge toward the more “clinical” meaning we read in the dictionary.

When was the word "gay"in this meaning first used, please? As an oldie, I am saddened by its corruption.

 

[Thorolfr]

When was the word "gay"in this meaning first used, please? As an oldie, I am saddened by its corruption.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

Gay meaning ‘homosexual,’ dating back to the 1930s (if not earlier), became established in the 1960s as the term preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. It is now the standard accepted term throughout the English-speaking world.

oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/gay

 

[Rau]

When was the word "gay"in this meaning first used, please? As an oldie, I am saddened by its corruption.

quora.com/Why-are-homosexuals-called-gay

 

[Rau]

When was the word "gay"in this meaning first used, please? As an oldie, I am saddened by its corruption.

To my mind, the term “marriage equality” is the poster child for language corruption at the present time. It seeks to condemn as prejudiced bigots all who believe marriage requires persons of opposite sex. After all, how could oppose “equality”?

 

[jjr9]

Hi CAF,

Could you give me any guidance in understanding the LGBT movement and in particular understanding people involved with that movement?

I wasn’t born yesterday (literally!) but that movement seems rather peculiar & I wonder whether being compassionate, as the Catechism calls us to be, might involve coming to understand this stuff better.

Thanks,
n

I believe the LGBT movement is a group of people who are looking for acceptance of a lifestyle that
they have come to through a variety of reasons. Unfortunately this lifestyle is morally repugnant. For
a long period of time now the mythical “homosexual person” in the secular world has been presented
as a normal healthy reality in media, school and some “churches”. It is not at all surprising that a large
percentage of people today have come to accept the mythical “homosexual person” as real. It seems as
though the push for acceptance of the mythical “bisexual person” and “transgender person” as real will
be relatively easy thanks to the ground work done with the mythical “homosexual person”. This was
not always the case not long ago it was recognized that SSA is a temptation and SS behavior a sin and
the mythical “homosexual person” was not considered.

We all have difficulty with our sinful thoughts and behavior if we have a love for the Lord we should
feel a sense of shame for these thoughts and behavior. The proper things for us to do are repent then ask
for forgiveness and Grace which the Lord is happy to do. This is not always easy to do and we are
tempted to rationalize these thoughts and behavior. I believe the leader of this LGBT movement is
Satan it seems as though many people today do not view Satan as the real and present danger that he is
and I am sure the evil one is pleased with this.

Without rational reason the Magisterium claims the mythical “homosexual person” real. People will
give emotional argument and rationalization and believe that is sufficient to resolve the issue. It is not
and no one has presented tangible proof of exclusive SSA or reference to exclusive SSA in the Sacred
Deposit of Faith.

God bless

 

[Strydersroom]

I believe the LGBT movement is a group of people who are looking for acceptance of a lifestyle that
they have come to through a variety of reasons. Unfortunately this lifestyle is morally repugnant. For
a long period of time now the mythical “homosexual person” in the secular world has been presented
as a normal healthy reality in media, school and some “churches”. It is not at all surprising that a large
percentage of people today have come to accept the mythical “homosexual person” as real. It seems as
though the push for acceptance of the mythical “bisexual person” and “transgender person” as real will
be relatively easy thanks to the ground work done with the mythical “homosexual person”. This was
not always the case not long ago it was recognized that SSA is a temptation and SS behavior a sin and
the mythical “homosexual person” was not considered.

We all have difficulty with our sinful thoughts and behavior if we have a love for the Lord we should
feel a sense of shame for these thoughts and behavior. The proper things for us to do are repent then ask
for forgiveness and Grace which the Lord is happy to do. This is not always easy to do and we are
tempted to rationalize these thoughts and behavior. I believe the leader of this LGBT movement is
Satan it seems as though many people today do not view Satan as the real and present danger that he is
and I am sure the evil one is pleased with this.

Without rational reason the Magisterium claims the mythical “homosexual person” real. People will
give emotional argument and rationalization and believe that is sufficient to resolve the issue. It is not
and no one has presented tangible proof of exclusive SSA or reference to exclusive SSA in the Sacred
Deposit of Faith.

God bless

In my opinion, the only thing morally repugnant is your opinion about homosexuals. My “lifestyle” is the same as any other happily married couple, good times and bad, sickness and health. What’s repugnant in my view is that you can’t even show a shred of compassion, empathy or even just tolerance towards my “lifestyle” based solely on your blind devotion by a book written by man.

 

[Rosebud77]

In my opinion, the only thing morally repugnant is your opinion about homosexuals. My “lifestyle” is the same as any other happily married couple, good times and bad, sickness and health. What’s repugnant in my view is that you can’t even show a shred of compassion, empathy or even just tolerance towards my “lifestyle” based solely on your blind devotion by a book written by man.

Please define “morally”… We are not blind. far from it. The discrimination here is by you surely?

 

[Rosebud77]

Thanks re “gay” explanation… The further back they trace it the more sense the usage makes. It had become so diluted over the centuries as then the current sad application arrived.

Speaking of terminology, the one that really irks me is " homophobia " A phobia as we all surely know means an irrational and often disabling fear. Arachnaphobia can mean that if the spiders where you live are not poisonous… if you live among toxic varieties then it is no longer a phobia but a careful avoidance.

A reasoned morality based on the Word of God is not ever phobic. Period.

Wonder if they use it as irrational is insulting? Belittles?

 

[openmind77]

I believe the LGBT movement is a group of people who are looking for acceptance of a lifestyle that
they have come to through a variety of reasons. Unfortunately this lifestyle is morally repugnant. For
a long period of time now the mythical “homosexual person” in the secular world has been presented
as a normal healthy reality in media, school and some “churches”. It is not at all surprising that a large
percentage of people today have come to accept the mythical “homosexual person” as real. It seems as
though the push for acceptance of the mythical “bisexual person” and “transgender person” as real will
be relatively easy thanks to the ground work done with the mythical “homosexual person”. This was
not always the case not long ago it was recognized that SSA is a temptation and SS behavior a sin and
the mythical “homosexual person” was not considered.

We all have difficulty with our sinful thoughts and behavior if we have a love for the Lord we should
feel a sense of shame for these thoughts and behavior. The proper things for us to do are repent then ask
for forgiveness and Grace which the Lord is happy to do. This is not always easy to do and we are
tempted to rationalize these thoughts and behavior. I believe the leader of this LGBT movement is
Satan it seems as though many people today do not view Satan as the real and present danger that he is
and I am sure the evil one is pleased with this.

Without rational reason the Magisterium claims the mythical “homosexual person” real. People will
give emotional argument and rationalization and believe that is sufficient to resolve the issue. It is not
and no one has presented tangible proof of exclusive SSA or reference to exclusive SSA in the Sacred
Deposit of Faith.

God bless

I think when Cardinal Marx recently talked about the Church/Christians having to apologize to the gay community for marginalizing them, he was thinking about people like you. BTW Pope Francis has also supported the Cardinal’s statement.

 

[jjr9]

In my opinion, the only thing morally repugnant is your opinion about homosexuals. My “lifestyle” is the same as any other happily married couple, good times and bad, sickness and health. What’s repugnant in my view is that you can’t even show a shred of compassion, empathy or even just tolerance towards my “lifestyle” based solely on your blind devotion by a book written by man.

I do not begrudge you your view. Are you saying that you do not believe the Bible is inspired
by our Lord? If so I believe you are wrong.

My only concern is that the Magisterium has made an error in claiming the mythical “homosexual
person” real. I am sorry if this is a disturbance for you.

If you believe the “homosexual person” real you should be able to provide tangible proof of exclusive
SSA do you have some? I would not consider your personal testimony as relevant.

What is more compassionate the Truth or a lie of Satan that hinders one on the path to Eternal Life?

God bless

 

[jjr9]

I think when Cardinal Marx recently talked about the Church/Christians having to apologize to the gay community for marginalizing them, he was thinking about people like you. BTW Pope Francis has also supported the Cardinal’s statement.

I have not found a transcript of Cardinal Marx’s remarks do you have a link for this?

What I have seen in press reports is very disturbing: (Ref:lifesitenews.com/opinion/cardinal-reinhard-marx-vs.-cardinal-and-saint-peter-damian-do-homosexual-un)

According to Cardinal Reinhard Marx, homosexual relationships have “worth,” a worth
that must be recognized by the Catholic Church.

“We have to respect the decisions of people,” Marx told the media last week in Dublin after
delivering a speech at Trinity College, according to a recent report in the Irish Times.

“We have to respect the decisions of people. We have to respect also, as I said in the first
synod on the family, some were shocked but I think it’s normal, you cannot say that a
relationship between a man and a man and they are faithful [that] that is nothing, that has
no worth,” he said.

Consequently, according to Marx, the Church owes homosexuals an apology for its historical
treatment of homosexuals. “As Church and society, we have to say ‘Sorry, Sorry,’” Marx said.
He added that the Church should support “regulating” homosexual partnerships. “We as church
cannot be against it.”

I can only hope that Pope Francis does not believe “homosexual relationships have “worth,”” or
are “normal”. From what I have seen ( Ref: ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-christians-must-apologize-gay-people-marginalizing-them?_ga=1.145515636.1124182977.1466852170)
Pope Francis is sticking to the language in the CCC 2357-2359. I believe this section of the CCC
is written in error and Cardinal Marx’s remarks the predictable fruit of this error I am confident the
Lord will correct this error by the Magisterium in His Time.

God bless