Research article on how homosexuality and masturbation is generalised as normal human sexual behaviour but in fact is not

[InSearchofGrace]

Man the first time I remember masturbating I was around 3 or 4… I have heard of peoples kids masturbating even younger. I didn’t know what I was doing, just that it felt good. It happens and is a common behavior among animals and people. Same thing with same sex attraction… I am attracted to both sexes and I remember around 6 or 7 wanting to kiss girls like boys kiss girls. I didn’t know what gay or bisexual was, it happened naturally. I am not saying either is moral or not… I am just saying these things do happen naturally.

Young children and babies masturbate and are most likely not exposed to anything to influence them into such behavior. It’s a normal behavior.

As you any participant in this forum knows, this site is Catholic Answers and the particular sub-forum is Moral Theology.

Most discussions bring about a discussion on natural law and Catholic teaching as related to various topics. Some bring up sexual behavior they deem as normal without factoring in morality, but they are not ‘normal’ in the sense that a medical or mental health professional would use the word, because the behavior may really have a pathology.

Before anybody can claim what is normal behavior in the scenarios raised, especially in those people who compulsively engage in masturbation, a medical condition needs to be explored. At least that is what I would suggest to anyone who is in a personal situation that may present a hardship in living a normal life, including a parent who may have a child who is sexually acting out and/or masturbating on his/her own without outside influence.

The above posts reminded me of a relatively new medical diagnosis (made in 2001) called Restless Genital Syndrome (RGS) or Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder (PGAD) or Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome (PSAS) I came across in my readings.

Those interested can read more on the web using the search phrases as mentioned.
,

 

[davidv]

Young children and babies masturbate and are most likely not exposed to anything to influence them into such behavior. It’s a normal behavior.

So are uncontrolled elimination of solid and liquid waste, and are considered “normal” at least until toliet training age.

“Normal” does not equal moral.

 

[JoArtist]

As you any participant in this forum knows, this site is Catholic Answers and the particular sub-forum is Moral Theology.

Most discussions bring about a discussion on natural law and Catholic teaching as related to various topics. Some bring up sexual behavior they deem as normal without factoring in morality, but they are not ‘normal’ in the sense that a medical or mental health professional would use the word, because the behavior may really have a pathology.

Before anybody can claim what is normal behavior in the scenarios raised, especially in those people who compulsively engage in masturbation, a medical condition needs to be explored. At least that is what I would suggest to anyone who is in a personal situation that may present a hardship in living a normal life, including a parent who may have a child who is sexually acting out and/or masturbating on his/her own without outside influence.

The above posts reminded me of a relatively new medical diagnosis (made in 2001) called Restless Genital Syndrome (RGS) or Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder (PGAD) or Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome (PSAS) I came across in my readings.

Those interested can read more on the web using the search phrases as mentioned.
,

If you read in my post I even said I was not commenting on the morality of these issues, just that they occur naturally. I repeat I am NOT saying anything about the morality, just that they are natural and more common than one would think.
Plus the study was talking about whether these are normal behaviors… not about their morality. It is pretty difficult to do a scientific study on whether something is moral or not.

 

[ringil]

Evidence please? I’m really curious if you can list some cultures where masturbation is almost nonexistent.

I’d be curious about this too! I heard that sumo wrestlers in training aren’t supposed to masturbate.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

If you read in my post I even said I was not commenting on the morality of these issues, just that they occur naturally. I repeat I am NOT saying anything about the morality, just that they are natural and more common than one would think.
Plus the study was talking about whether these are normal behaviors… not about their morality. It is pretty difficult to do a scientific study on whether something is moral or not.

I don’t think we made contrary statements. Although your post and Arkadin’s talked about masturbation in young children, they reminded me as I said of a medical condition of said compulsion in adults. Obviously, the behavior in young children is separate from a discussion of any moral component. Like you said, it is regarded as natural and more common than others would think. One poster brought up that it could very well be a stage a child undergoes, like the ability to learn and control waste elimination until the child is completely toilet trained. Beyond that stage, when a child who is not otherwise exposed to adult sexual behavior, just randomly discovers auto erotic pleasure and becomes preoccupied with masturbation, child psychologists would likely consider it as a sign of boredom or a coping method to reduce stress. The behavior is managed or resolved by addressing the root cause, e.g., keeping the child engaged in physical and learning activities or eliminating the source of stress.

It could be the same (morality not the overriding issue) with adults who have a condition with a pathological basis, i.e., one preoccupied with persistent sexual arousal to the point of distraction and ability to live without the continual need to masturbate or find a sexual partner (of same or opposite sex) with frequency.

The OP brought up a study of Aka and Ngandu cultures in which homosexuality and the practice of masturbation are rare or non-existent, posing the question in effect if said sexual behaviors are culture based. It is a departure from the theories and research of sexuality in Western cultures which currently look at a number of factors to explain sexual conduct – biology/genes, psycho-social development, environment/culture, etc. The definition of ‘normal’ would certainly be different for the Aka / Ngandu and for someone who lives in a Western country.
,

 

[JoArtist]

I don’t think we made contrary statements. Although your post and Arkadin’s talked about masturbation in young children, they reminded me as I said of a medical condition of said compulsion in adults. Obviously, the behavior in young children is separate from a discussion of any moral component. Like you said, it is regarded as natural and more common than others would think. One poster brought up that it could very well be a stage a child undergoes, like the ability to learn and control waste elimination until the child is completely toilet trained. Beyond that stage, when a child who is not otherwise exposed to adult sexual behavior, just randomly discovers auto erotic pleasure and becomes preoccupied with masturbation, child psychologists would likely consider it as a sign of boredom or a coping method to reduce stress. The behavior is managed or resolved by addressing the root cause, e.g., keeping the child engaged in physical and/or learning activities and eliminating the source of stress.

It could be the same (morality not the overriding issue) with adults who have a condition with a pathological basis, i.e., one preoccupied with persistent sexual arousal to the point of distraction and ability to live without the continual need to masturbate or find a sexual partner (of same or opposite sex) with frequency.

The OP brought up a study of Aka and Ngandu cultures in which homosexuality and the practice of masturbation are rare or non-existent, posing the question in effect if said sexual behaviors are culture based. It is a departure from the theories and research of sexuality in Western cultures which currently look at a number of factors to explain sexual conduct – biology/genes, psycho-social development, environment/culture, etc. The definition of ‘normal’ would certainly be different for the Aka / Ngandu and for someone who lives in a Western country.
,

Well I think maybe some issues of homosexuality are cultural, but not all. Also there may be a factor that homosexuality is not accepted at all so more are likely to bury or hide their feelings of same sex attraction. It can go both ways.

 

[Edward_H]

It depends…I always find it ludicrous that people can’t sort out the difference between a moral claim and a biological claim, and it seems to be people on both sides that make the mistake.

It depends on our will.

Our body is designed by God. So is our soul. They are designed in a way to help us reach Him. Our will is the wild card, as Adam and Eve found out.

How we’re designed (our biological life) is not designed against how we’re to live (our moral life).

 

[Bluegoat]

It depends on our will.

Our body is designed by God. So is our soul. They are designed in a way to help us reach Him. Our will is the wild card, as Adam and Eve found out.

How we’re designed (our biological life) is not designed against how we’re to live (our moral life).

You seem however to have left out the Fall, which results in just that sort of problem. And of course we know that in many other instances the body gives us troubles with regard to our moral life.

 

[Edward_H]

You seem however to have left out the Fall, which results in just that sort of problem. And of course we know that in many other instances the body gives us troubles with regard to our moral life.

By saying “Adam and Eve” I didn’t leave out the fall; I called direct attention to it.

And while our body “gives us trouble”…that is exactly what was in tension with Adam and Eve.

Our body draws attention to the tough choices…and highlights them; our will is given to us as the power to choose and do the good.

 

[James1215]

As to the original topic, whether homosexuality is culturally conditioned rather than, say, genetic, the evidence is not strongly in favour of the former. Given that the study cited used a small sample of mostly married (or previously married) individuals from only 2 central African societies, it provides limited evidence that does not allow for a generalisation or even remove the possibility that it was the reporting of gay sex that was culturally influenced, rather than the practice. One society was quite strongly hierarchical, with separate rules for men and women (down to sex positions, eating and handling of hunting gear), which suggests that norms for sexuality were also in effect.

Towards the end of the paper, other research is cited which shows both the reporting of homosexuality and evidence of differing cultural norms which would likely have affected the reporting:

'Ford & Beach (1951) conducted one of the first cross-cultural studies of homosexuality and found that 37% of cultures for which information was available (76 cultures), homosexual activities among adults were totally absent, very rare, or only occurred in secret. The authors suggest that this is, in part, due to punishments or social pressures against homosexuality.** In 63% of cultures homosexual activities were considered normal or socially acceptable for certain members of society**.

Minturn et al. (1969) conducted a survey of cultures in the Human Relations Area Files (HRAF) and found data on male homosexuality in 52 of 135 cultures (almost no data on female sexual preferences). It was either not known or ignored in 8% of cultures, was acceptable in 27% of cultures, condemned or ridiculed in 48% of cultures, and a well-accepted practice in 17% of cultures’ [p. 118]

Therefore it is likely that in both societies focused on here, the message that homosexuality and masturbation were none-existent does not match the reality.

Indeed, a few other things were interesting. The idea was reported that homosexuality doesn’t happen here (rural place), but does happen in the city, the same with oral sex and masturbation. How often do we find ourselves making moral comparisons between city and country people? How often are we disappointed that both sorts (including ourselves) let us down or show hypocrisy? Also, the researchers sought to gain information from young and old so as to see how sex changes over a person’s life. However, this assumes a timelessness which may not be present - a young person now is not necessarily the same as an old person back in the day. So even the culturally influenced aspects of behaviour may have been misunderstood.

 

[Edward_H]

As to the original topic, whether homosexuality is culturally conditioned rather than, say, genetic, the evidence is not strongly in favour of the former. Given that the study cited used a small sample of mostly married (or previously married) individuals from only 2 central African societies, it provides limited evidence that does not allow for a generalisation or even remove the possibility that it was the reporting of gay sex that was culturally influenced, rather than the practice. One society was quite strongly hierarchical, with separate rules for men and women (down to sex positions, eating and handling of hunting gear), which suggests that norms for sexuality were also in effect.

Towards the end of the paper, other research is cited which shows both the reporting of homosexuality and evidence of differing cultural norms which would likely have affected the reporting:

'Ford & Beach (1951) conducted one of the first cross-cultural studies of homosexuality and found that 37% of cultures for which information was available (76 cultures), homosexual activities among adults were totally absent, very rare, or only occurred in secret. The authors suggest that this is, in part, due to punishments or social pressures against homosexuality.** In 63% of cultures homosexual activities were considered normal or socially acceptable for certain members of society**.

Minturn et al. (1969) conducted a survey of cultures in the Human Relations Area Files (HRAF) and found data on male homosexuality in 52 of 135 cultures (almost no data on female sexual preferences). It was either not known or ignored in 8% of cultures, was acceptable in 27% of cultures, condemned or ridiculed in 48% of cultures, and a well-accepted practice in 17% of cultures’ [p. 118]

Therefore it is likely that in both societies focused on here, the message that homosexuality and masturbation were none-existent does not match the reality.

Indeed, a few other things were interesting. The idea was reported that homosexuality doesn’t happen here (rural place), but does happen in the city, the same with oral sex and masturbation. How often do we find ourselves making moral comparisons between city and country people? How often are we disappointed that both sorts (including ourselves) let us down or show hypocrisy? Also, the researchers sought to gain information from young and old so as to see how sex changes over a person’s life. However, this assumes a timelessness which may not be present - a young person now is not necessarily the same as an old person back in the day. So even the culturally influenced aspects of behaviour may have been misunderstood.

Hard to draw any real conclusions from this “data.” That of course doesn’t stop researchers from all sorts of speculation, and in turn readers of this research from taking the conclusions well beyond the actual “data.” collected. Increasingly social science “research” is terribly influenced by the agenda and leanings of the faculty. If you read some journals which report the results from these sorts of studies, you’ll be overwhelmed by the mumbli-headed thinking, writing, and methods. Many of the assertions are circular and bloated with pyschobabble. Professors seem to self-cite at an embarrassing rate…and the number of co-authors that pile on to each article is similarly embarrassing.

You’ll very rarely if ever see an article that’s based on real observable data, but instead you’ll run across hundreds of articles based on self-reporting “surveys”. Cheap, easy, and you can get the data you’re looking for.

These researchers ignore real behaviors, the will, and the soul…instead over emphasizing opinions and emotions all “measured” by surveys.

I can’t believe these researchers still get grant money…but the US Government rarely says no to any of this sort of “research.”

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

So are uncontrolled elimination of solid and liquid waste, and are considered “normal” at least until toliet training age.

“Normal” does not equal moral.

But at least we can say that 2-year-olds (let’s say) who masturbate are doing it from an innocent POV. They are unaware it is immoral. Later on one can talk to them about it and tell them it is wrong. But they are not deliberately commiting a sin with “forethought” and knowing it is wrong.
Just saying.

 

[Debora123]

yeah I’m a little confused by this idea of an attraction at an early age thing. I don’t remember having any kind of sexual attraction for the opposite sex until puberty. Anything before then in my opinion is just copying the behaviors that we see in our environment.

Really? Not until puberty??

That must be just you then. I remember my very first crush. I was 4 years old and had a huge crush on a neighbor/friend who was a year or two older than me.

I also remember being in 2nd grade and talking to girlfriends about the boys we liked. Definitely before puberty.

 

[ddarko]

Really? Not until puberty??

That must be just you then. I remember my very first crush. I was 4 years old and had a huge crush on a neighbor/friend who was a year or two older than me.

I also remember being in 2nd grade and talking to girlfriends about the boys we liked. Definitely before puberty.

I think this is a classic example of how Culture and the environment we grow up in shapes us.

A 4 year old child has no sexual hormones kicking in. Even if we make an exception for one person, not more than a couple of students in the 2nd grade are going to have sexual feelings. This is pretty much Science as far as I know.

So what we have here is children conforming to the environment. You can see this commonly in normal life. Have a 5 year old boy spend time with 17 year olds. After sometime, he will start talking about which girls he likes etc. He really doesn’t have any sexual attraction to a girl but he starts to think he does. He might merely find the other person a good friend or like spending time with him. He then merely associates it with sexuality because that’s what he has been exposed to.

Same with gay attractions. When one grows up in a culture where it is normative, one is more inclined to think that way and unfortunately perhaps even ACT that way. When this actual person hits puberty, he/she would have a habitual inclination towards homosexuality. Also, taking in to account the possibility of genetic inclination to homosexuality, this sort of early exposure pretty much makes impossible for the person to think he is anything other than homosexual.

In short, ones culture plays an important role in determining someone’s sexual attraction in future. A person maybe born with tendencies to Alcoholism but unless he starts drinking Alcohol, he doesn’t become alcoholic. Same here.

There is also a more important thing here with respect to young children. They try to associate with what they see. So regardless of where their sexual preference lies (and scientifically have no sexual preference at such an age), they can end up thinking they are sexually attracted to those of the opposite or same sex depending on the environment they are brought up in. While all they had to begin with was merely a preference for friendship.

God Bless

 

[ddarko]

Do you reject the possibility that someone may, from a very young age, feel sexual attraction to someone of the same gender? Many gays testify to that feeling, which would make their sexual attraction less likely to be due to culture, and more likely due to non-cultural factors.

The fact that they feel it at a very young age (when scientifically speaking actual sexual attraction is not possible) is a very good indicator that the Culture/Environment DOES play an important role. No?

God Bless

 

[Calliso]

Really? Not until puberty??

That must be just you then. I remember my very first crush. I was 4 years old and had a huge crush on a neighbor/friend who was a year or two older than me.

I also remember being in 2nd grade and talking to girlfriends about the boys we liked. Definitely before puberty.

Yeah I was in third grade I think when I had my first crush. Was on a neighbor as well he was the same age as me. But I think even before then I had an interest in the opposite gender.

 

[Calliso]

I think this is a classic example of how Culture and the environment we grow up in shapes us.

A 4 year old child has no sexual hormones kicking in. Even if we make an exception for one person, not more than a couple of students in the 2nd grade are going to have sexual feelings. This is pretty much Science as far as I know.

So what we have here is children conforming to the environment. You can see this commonly in normal life. Have a 5 year old boy spend time with 17 year olds. After sometime, he will start talking about which girls he likes etc. He really doesn’t have any sexual attraction to a girl but he starts to think he does. He might merely find the other person a good friend or like spending time with him. He then merely associates it with sexuality because that’s what he has been exposed to.

Same with gay attractions. When one grows up in a culture where it is normative, one is more inclined to think that way and unfortunately perhaps even ACT that way. When this actual person hits puberty, he/she would have a habitual inclination towards homosexuality. Also, taking in to account the possibility of genetic inclination to homosexuality, this sort of early exposure pretty much makes impossible for the person to think he is anything other than homosexual.

In short, ones culture plays an important role in determining someone’s sexual attraction in future. A person maybe born with tendencies to Alcoholism but unless he starts drinking Alcohol, he doesn’t become alcoholic. Same here.

There is also a more important thing here with respect to young children. They try to associate with what they see. So regardless of where their sexual preference lies (and scientifically have no sexual preference at such an age), they can end up thinking they are sexually attracted to those of the opposite or same sex depending on the environment they are brought up in. While all they had to begin with was merely a preference for friendship.

God Bless

Oh I definately agree that cultural influences are pretty big. I think biology still has a pretty big pull though. I mean I think that homosexuality can be cultural/enviromental but biology still plays a big role, I think there are cultural/enviromental homosexuals who aren;t really homosexual but were “conditioned” that way so to speak and those that are truly biologically wired that way. I mean we see homosexuality in the animal kingdom and yes I know people here donlt like the animal comparision…but techinically we are animals so it really isn;t farfetched to look to the animal kingdom when talking about natural behaviors.

As to the issue of crushes at young ages yeah I think culture definately plays a role. I mean nowadays you hear about kids dating in elementary school I mean serious dating! That was almost unheard of when I was kid which admittingly wasn;t that long ago. And even then the “dating” probably was more for fun then anything actually serious. I mean I thought the boy next door was really cute and he was a nice guy his mom would watch me after school so got to know him that way But I don;t really remember the feelings being sexual in nature does that make sense?

 

[John21652]

Oh I definately agree that cultural influences are pretty big. I think biology still has a pretty big pull though. I mean I think that homosexuality can be cultural/enviromental but biology still plays a big role, I think there are cultural/enviromental homosexuals who aren;t really homosexual but were “conditioned” that way so to speak and those that are truly biologically wired that way. I mean we see homosexuality in the animal kingdom and yes I know people here donlt like the animal comparision…but techinically we are animals so it really isn;t farfetched to look to the animal kingdom when talking about natural behaviors.

As to the issue of crushes at young ages yeah I think culture definately plays a role. I mean nowadays you hear about kids dating in elementary school I mean serious dating! That was almost unheard of when I was kid which admittingly wasn;t that long ago. And even then the “dating” probably was more for fun then anything actually serious. I mean I thought the boy next door was really cute and he was a nice guy his mom would watch me after school so got to know him that way But I don;t really remember the feelings being sexual in nature does that make sense?

When I was in Primary School, no way would the boys have anything to do with girls. You know, girl germs and all that sort of dangerous stuff. Girls were pretty hopeless too. They couldn’t play football and they weren’t very good at climbing trees. Well, no-where near as good as the boys. One girl used to bring me marbles so I could play during recess and although I accepted her gifts, I just knew there was something wrong with her. I mean, why didn’t she run off and play with all the other girls? Eventually the immune system kicked in and I and all my friends were able to tolerate them, until eventually the aversion became an obsession. I ended up marrying one! It all seemed to happen naturally, all in its own time.

 

[Calliso]

When I was in Primary School, no way would the boys have anything to do with girls. You know, girl germs and all that sort of dangerous stuff. Girls were pretty hopeless too. They couldn’t play football and they weren’t very good at climbing trees. Well, no-where near as good as the boys. One girl used to bring me marbles so I could play during recess and although I accepted her gifts, I just knew there was something wrong with her. I mean, why didn’t she run off and play with all the other girls? Eventually the immune system kicked in and I and all my friends were able to tolerate them, until eventually the aversion became an obsession. I ended up marrying one! It all seemed to happen naturally, all in its own time.

Lol! Yeah I imagine cooties as we used to call them are a cultural thing as well though. I mean I remember having a boy as a friend in preschool. I was pretty tomboyish though and while I was never much into sports I did like to climb trees and play pretty rough at times. Most of my friends were girls though I do admit. Though I did have some guy friends…having a trampoline in my backyard made me pretty popular though!

 

[JoArtist]

Really? Not until puberty??

That must be just you then. I remember my very first crush. I was 4 years old and had a huge crush on a neighbor/friend who was a year or two older than me.

I also remember being in 2nd grade and talking to girlfriends about the boys we liked. Definitely before puberty.

My first crush was in preschool to a little boy named Michael… he gave me a necklace with a heart on it… I have had crushes all throughout childhood.