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TheRealJuliane
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You just responded to a post that is over a year old. This thread was DEAD, if you have something to say, please start a new thread. You can title it, “I’m totally for contraceptives” but be prepared to be spotted for trolling.
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Petra_Spahr
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Juliane,
I am sorry. It is not my intention to cause problems. I came to this web site because mention has been made several times over the years by our priest about the “marital embrace.” It obviously referred to physical relations between a husband and wife, but I was wondering whether there was anything more, so I Googled it and this was the first search result. This thread was somewhat useful to me, so I didn’t think it was dead, and didn’t know that picking up a topic that hadn’t been discussed for a while was considered bad manners.
When my to-be husband and I returned to the Church and were counselled on marriage, our priest told us that we needed to be open to new life, children, but implied in that was that it need not be immediate. He recommended NFP and we worked at it believe me, but it was not what we expected. Instead of abstaining a few days a month, it was like more than half the month, and even at that it caused us a lot of stress. And from what we were taught, other “activities” that may have given us some release are not considered moral (nor do we find them by themselves satisfying). My husband and I expected that reconciling with God and the Church and getting married would put us at ease, make us calm, but it was the opposite. We actually found ourselves reminiscing with each other about pleasant days (great vacations) with past lovers!
You say that “I’m totally for contraceptives” and should start a thread about that. I am not on a campaign for anything - I just want to ask questions, tell of my experience of a fallen away and returned Catholic (which I admit takes away much of the legitimacy of my viewpoint), and to get advice. Actually, I think I am close to what folks here believe, it is just a matter of how things are done. It seems to me that NFP is contraception, just by more trying, less reliable, other means. (I am not certain what Elisabethelisa means in the post above “Don’t blame it on us if you didn’t use it [NFP] properly.” We were fastidious, but I am open to advice.) What I do to delay having children is more reliable, removes a huge stress out of my marriage, and I like the fact I can manage to have only two periods a year. While hubby and I have always had the absolute best personal relationship, we (and yes, we have discussed it) could not say that we had the best physical relationship until we gave up NFP and I got back on bc.
There used to be opposition to vaccines because some people believed that it interfered with God’s will on who would live and who would die. That belief has gone away, we no longer see nature’s course or the randomness of death as God’s will, so why should we still believe that the randomness of conception is somehow God’s will, that we should not intervene? And isn’t NFP just another way of intervening, but with a great toll on marital relations? I understand that we have a duty to have children, but must that duty be fulfilled in an uncontrolled, disorganized way?
Thank you for listening, for the responses you may have, and your advice. I do appreciate it.
Petra
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Petra_Spahr
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Elisabethelisa,
First, thank you for your prayers; believe me, I need them! Second, if you can, please elaborate on what you believe I was doing wrong on NFP (see my reply to TheRealJuliane, below). I did not get pregnant, but practicing NFP certainly did not grow our marriage.
Finally, the openness that my husband and I have is what makes us comfortable as a couple, it is not a headbanging thing. There is no worry that he (or I) will find out some undisclosed thing about the other that will upset us. There is no worry that we will encounter someone among friends or co-workers that needs to be “explained,” or worry that gossip will catch up with us. My mother finds it weird, but I am actually friends with two of hubby’s exes. Hubby and I are both happy knowing that neither of us wonders what else is out there. I am flattered that of the women hubby has dated/known/lived with/gone on adventures with and who are better looking than I am, more intelligent (perhaps), more athletic, earn more than I do and were eager to marry him (or simply stay with him) that he chose me. He tells me the same; he is flattered that I chose him as the best of a great bunch. Although it never threatened our marriage itself, we could never have worked our way through the NFP trial if we had not been totally honest about what works and doesn’t work for us. Something that was based on experience.
Perhaps characterizing myself as a returning Catholic isn’t quite accurate. I was never that devote. My upbringing was not rigorous: I went to public school and attended CCD classes until 11th grade, but that was about it. When I lived at home, I attended Mass on a semi-regular basis, but when I left for college I went much less. I started going again, ironicly, when I was spending weekends with a girl (yes, hubby knows) in grad school who was Catholic; it gave us a reason to get out of bed in the late morning after eating bagels and trading sections of the Sunday NY Times. When we split, I stopped again until I met my now husband. So although I listened to a fair number of sermons, my education did not have much depth or specificity.
Thank you for your help.
Petra
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twoangels
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NFP takes a period of adjustment and communication. It demands you improve your marriage. It demands you grow in understanding and self mastery. Its far easier to free yourself for spontaneous sex because your passions guide and direct you. At least that is my opinion. I’ve always found calming down sexually to be easier than trying to force sex whether you are trying to get pregnant or not. Its just far easier to wait for the passions to hit you.
I think there is a period of sexual adjustment and growing in sexual knowledge and understanding early in a marriage that isn’t compatible with NFP. But that said, part of marriage is accepting children. Part of the reason we have the responsibility to marry is because the marital union is the only thing that is fair to children. We marry because we expect our behavior to be procreative.
On the other side of the equation, charting cycles is far easier to learn when you’re not sexually active. NFP while breastfeeding really requires a lot of the basic principles be well understood. As such, I think it is best for girls to learn to read their fertility signs when they’re not sexually active (not yet married), but then to not start strictly following NFP to avoid as soon as you get married. It should be there to space children reasonably apart, to deal with health issues and financial issues that arise in marriage. When it is used at the beginning, its hard on a new couple and I believe tends to result from a closed heart to the procreative meaning of sexuality.
That doesn’t mean the Church requires you to have children right away. My husband and I learned to be open to life early on. It was frightening but I wouldn’t trade my daughter. I’m so happy we have her. She will be two in Feburary. NFP has worked for us, though we view it as information. Right now we’re at a stage of feeling our lives are in order for us to be more spontaneous, but we don’t pressure it. I’d say if we’re still not pregnant in the next year or two we may start using my fertile time more diliberately.
Its really just fertility awareness. What a couple does with that knowledge is up to them whether it is actively abstaining, disregarding it or actively seeking sex. That’s how its different from contraceptives. Abstainence prevents babies. Charting just gives you information. Its no different than looking at the weather to decide how to dress or whether or not to go to the park today.
I think there is a period of sexual adjustment and growing in sexual knowledge and understanding early in a marriage that isn’t compatible with NFP. But that said, part of marriage is accepting children. Part of the reason we have the responsibility to marry is because the marital union is the only thing that is fair to children. We marry because we expect our behavior to be procreative.
On the other side of the equation, charting cycles is far easier to learn when you’re not sexually active. NFP while breastfeeding really requires a lot of the basic principles be well understood. As such, I think it is best for girls to learn to read their fertility signs when they’re not sexually active (not yet married), but then to not start strictly following NFP to avoid as soon as you get married. It should be there to space children reasonably apart, to deal with health issues and financial issues that arise in marriage. When it is used at the beginning, its hard on a new couple and I believe tends to result from a closed heart to the procreative meaning of sexuality.
That doesn’t mean the Church requires you to have children right away. My husband and I learned to be open to life early on. It was frightening but I wouldn’t trade my daughter. I’m so happy we have her. She will be two in Feburary. NFP has worked for us, though we view it as information. Right now we’re at a stage of feeling our lives are in order for us to be more spontaneous, but we don’t pressure it. I’d say if we’re still not pregnant in the next year or two we may start using my fertile time more diliberately.
Its really just fertility awareness. What a couple does with that knowledge is up to them whether it is actively abstaining, disregarding it or actively seeking sex. That’s how its different from contraceptives. Abstainence prevents babies. Charting just gives you information. Its no different than looking at the weather to decide how to dress or whether or not to go to the park today.
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Petra_Spahr
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Thank you, twoangels, this puts NFP in perspective and explains my failure. My marriage has a long way yet to go.
N
nishkalank
Guest
I do not know why some are worried about the position to take for sex. Just start with real love and things follow. Pose can be selected with mutual talk and mutual comfort. With 44 years of maital life I can say that you derive maximum joy not in ejaculation but in the feeling that you have a wonderful gift from God , whose union in one flesh is great, gracious and simply marvellous. But a thought that she/he is mine and i must love her/him, respect, tolerate and that we do everything in God’s grace will help us. Be open to life. Nothing happens without God’s will Even if we get more children, it should be taken as His Will. At the same time our abstinence and the submission of the abstinence at the feet of the Cross is a thing that pleases God. He asks us to carry our cross daily and follow him. Our mistakes happen because of too much of hurry. Approach slowly and then one realises the beauty, the goodness, the grace, the great oneness in the togetherness . The great naked EMBRACE will make us soft, divine and fills us with power for more abstinence. Experience the suffering on account of abstinence of 7 or 10 days and then the wonderful divine union of the flesh on the 8th or 11th night. Oh God our Loving father, bless all couples.
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Petra_Spahr
Guest
This is thoughtful advice, and again shows how far our marriage still has to go. My husband and I love each other deeply, but we recognize that a consequence of our past is that sex for us is not always about love. Our previous relationships were passionate, lustful, playful but not rooted in love, and sex for us is still in that mode - sometimes. And some acts physically just do not result in embracing.
Likewise, we are open to children at some point in our marriage, but not now. Being married, I sometimes imagine becoming pregnant when we are embraced. Please explain what you mean, "Our mistakes happen because of too much of hurry?"
We gave up on NFP because abstinence, particularly extended abstinence, seems contrary to marriage. When one of us has an extended business trip, we endure abstinence now that we would have not endured in the past. In prior relationships, separating for a week or more would usually result in me or whoever my partner was at the time temporarily engaging with another former lover. So it seems unnatural to us that now being married we were to deliberately abstain when we are together, something not done in lesser, illegitimate relationships. It is also wonderful that artificial bc allows me to eliminate my period.
I and my husband are thankful for having found each other and our way back to the Church. Life is more meaningful. Take care and have a blessed Christmas.
Petra
F
fpt
Guest
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Petra_Spahr
Guest
We are not opposed to love and passion together and find it wonderful as in God’s plan. Many times we have love without physical passion, which is great. But many times as well we have sex without love, sinful acts and attitudes that are carried from our pasts. Thoughts and talk of old partners…
E
Elisabethelisa
Guest
Hi Petra,
Sorry for the delay replying but I haven’t been on CAF for a while.
Anyway I mixed up my thoughts and my typing because I don’t even really understand what I meant when I said : "Don’t blame it on us if you didn’t use it properly. " shame The same for the the bang head…I meant to put one only.
I’m not married but I know it takes some time for a couple to be comfortable with NFP. That’s why I believe EVERY women should start charting way before being married so that its easier for both spouses. And it’s such a good way to know your body. I just feel powerful
It’s good you are open and honest with your husband about your past, your fantasies…etc but I believe the church teachings about sex has been made for a reason.
Also, saying NFP is not a reliable method is quiet disturbing especially on a catholic website. I have to say I thought you were trolling.
A lot could be said about sex in a couple but I’m not in the mood for that.
Anyway happy New Year!
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