Reserved seating, exceptionally annoyed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Allie1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sounds like the story of the ten virgins - five had enough oil -
the other five had to leave and get more oil - came back - locked out.
My first thought - " the audacity "
My family - is much more important than yours - type vibe of pride.

I’d tell the Priest immediately !
Maybe he’ll preach a homily on that - arrogance !

So, then, after arriving early, with your family,
your sent packing, to the bleachers, in left field - ?
No way ! That’s total Church goer injustice !

Glad your on the site 😇 by the way -
and this is a great time to teach your kiddo perhaps - on NOT what to do.
 
Yes it does. I think this is occurs in many places.
In our Diocese it has the approval of the Bishop.When there are Ordinations those who are not immediate relatives of those ordained ALL view the Mass and receive communion in the Cathedral Center.
They hear AND SEE the Mass, and EMHC come over to distribute communion under both species and take up the collection. There are worship aids and plenty of seating, a huge cross, and everything else one would expect.

We had at least 700 people accommodated on Easter Sunday over 3 masses in the Hall.
I don;t know where PC is, but here it’s a common practice.
 
Last edited:
Based on what you have described, I think that this should have been handled better by having one pew reserved for each first communion family. That is how I have seen it done in parishes that I have attended, and that way there is no issue of one family or a few families taking up all the good seats. Sometimes if you have a large number of extended family members coming, you cannot fit them all in one pew. But at least you would know that many of you will have a reserved pew, even if a few have to find seating more toward the back of church. (But the ushers would need to keep an eye on the situation, and gently redirect anyone outside of family who tries to sit in a reserved pew.)

Another thing that could help would be if the pastor could make an announcement the week before, something like the following: “Next week we are celebrating first communion at the 9:00 AM Mass. We wish the entire parish could be there, but we know from experience that this is a very crowded Mass, with many extended family members visiting from other parishes, and the first 20 rows of pews will be reserved for the first communicants and their families. If you do not personally know any of the first communicants or their parents, you might consider going to Mass at a different time next week, so that you don’t have to possibly end up standing in the back.”

But given your actual situation, you could have found a row where the people were “reserving” an unreasonable amount of pew space, and then just moved some of the song books and sat down anyway – at least the parents and siblings of the first communicant could have done this. And if someone complained to the ushers, let them complain. You could simply explain the situation: “This gentleman is here by himself, and he is trying to reserve enough seating for 15 people. Our son is making his first communion, and we just want to have our immediate family be able to sit close enough that we don’t need binoculars to see him receive communion. Even with us here, this gentleman still has enough seats saved for ten people, and we are happy to squeeze in tightly so that they can fit as many as possible.”
 
Last edited:
This situation reminds me of a time when I was at an airport in London at like 3 A.M waiting for a flight to Madrid and found a nice spot to sit down and wait but some guy came over and claimed it was his. XD The airport closed off that area not long afterwards so didn’t really affect me anyway.
 
Tulitas said:
Yes it does. I think this is occurs in many places
Click to expand...
It doesn’t and it can’t. The example of having screens that allow those farther away to see is fine. Those watching on TV from an entirely different location do not and cannot fulfill their obligation even if it’s a live broadcast (else the TV mass would fulfill the obligation), even if someone goes there and distributes communion. It simply isn’t possible. You have to actually be present.

(see for example: http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur65.htm scroll to the bottom). And see here: https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur200.htm

We went through this with our very large population and small church. The chapel was a separate space, separated by a wall, behind the main altar and we could not CC TV into it for overflow seating. We had to install a sliding wall of doors on the wall to the left of the altar that could be opened so that it was one contiguous space. The broadcast allowed those around the corner to see what was going on on the altar, but they had to be physically contiguous and present for the mass. Same with those standing in the narthex. Broadcasting to another building-- NOT contiguous in any way.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I am saying it isn’t fulfilling the obligation.
 
Last edited:
1ke said:
40.png
Tulitas:
Yes it does. I think this is occurs in many places
Click to expand...
It doesn’t and it can’t. The example of having screens that allow those farther away to see is fine. Those watching on TV from an entirely different location do not and cannot fulfill their obligation even if it’s a live broadcast (else the TV mass would fulfill the obligation), even if someone goes there and distributes communion. It simply isn’t possible. You have to actually be present.

(see for example: http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur65.htm scroll to the bottom). And see here: https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur200.htm

We went through this with our very large population and small church. The chapel was a separate space, separated by a wall, behind the main altar and we could not CC TV into it for overflow seating. We had to install a sliding wall of doors on the wall to the left of the altar that could be opened so that it was one contiguous space. The broadcast allowed those around the corner to see what was going on on the altar, but they had to be physically contiguous and present for the mass. Same with those standing in the narthex. Broadcasting to another building-- NOT contiguous in any way.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I am saying it isn’t fulfilling the obligation.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure this EWTN example is entirely accurate for all dioceses. I’ve been to a few where CCTV is fine. Then again…I mean by your example simply leaving both doors ajar would make it legit.

EWTN makes it clear that such CCTV masses are technically up to the discretion of the local ordinary–or perhaps even the priest–although preference is given to the non-screen methods.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
EWTN makes it clear that such CCTV masses are technically up to the discretion of the local ordinary–or perhaps even the priest–although preference is given to the non-screen methods.
Click to expand...
It’s up to them if the parish uses a screen to broadcast for those present in the assembly who may be farther away.

It’s not possible to make a broadcast mass for those not physically present fulfill the obligation. What may be possible is that the ordinary dispenses the obligation for those attending the broadcast.
 
I suppose its such new technology there hasn’t been much time to look into it’s use.
 
I seriously doubt our priest would put people’s souls in peril of not making their Easter obligation. Rather, he is trying to make sure everyone does fulfill their Easter obligation without the fire department shutting down the place for everyone!
Common sense.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
I suppose its such new technology there hasn’t been much time to look into it’s use.
Click to expand...
That isn’t the case. Broadcasting via TV and CC has been around a long time. Watching a broadcast, even a live one, from another location does not fulfill the mass obligation any more than confession over the phone fulfills the sacrament of reconciliation.

It simply doesn’t.
 
We auction off the front pews for “big Masses” as a fund raiser for the school.
 
Tulitas said:
I seriously doubt our priest would put people’s souls in peril of not making their Easter obligation.
Click to expand...
a) No one’s soul is in jeopardy. They are there in good faith.

b) It wouldn’t be the first well meaning person to do something they think is OK when it isn’t.

c) It is certainly possible the Ordinary or even the pastor could dispense those who are in the separate location.
 
1ke said:
40.png
Xanthippe_Voorhees:
EWTN makes it clear that such CCTV masses are technically up to the discretion of the local ordinary–or perhaps even the priest–although preference is given to the non-screen methods.
Click to expand...
It’s up to them if the parish uses a screen to broadcast for those present in the assembly who may be farther away.

It’s not possible to make a broadcast mass for those not physically present fulfill the obligation. What may be possible is that the ordinary dispenses the obligation for those attending the broadcast.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s very accurate and it seems like a ridiculous workaround pertaining to a subject that has not been determined by the Vatican as of yet. (when it comes to CCTV vs recorded/remote broadcast) EWTN is not the vatican.
 
No but it’s only fairly recently somewhere like a small parish would be able to afford such technology and the health and safety issues these situations throw up are also relatively recent.

My parish did this for a young persons funeral as a very high turn out was expected. I’ve not seen it for a Sunday mass.
 
1ke said:
40.png
ConfusedLucy:
I suppose its such new technology there hasn’t been much time to look into it’s use.
Click to expand...
That isn’t the case. Broadcasting via TV and CC has been around a long time. Watching a broadcast, even a live one, from another location does not fulfill the mass obligation any more than confession over the phone fulfills the sacrament of reconciliation.

It simply doesn’t.
Click to expand...
Then the burden of proof is for you to list the Cannon that defines this…not the other way around.
 
Not sure why you are so unwilling to be reasonable on this.
It’s not your call.
It’s the Bishop’s call, and he says it is a reasonable option. He does this himself.
We’re frankly so happy that people turn out in droves that we love having the option.
So we don’t have YOUR blessing. We’re ok with that.
 
1ke said:
40.png
Tulitas:
I seriously doubt our priest would put people’s souls in peril of not making their Easter obligation.
Click to expand...
a) No one’s soul is in jeopardy. They are there in good faith.

b) It wouldn’t be the first well meaning person to do something they think is OK when it isn’t.

c) It is certainly possible the Ordinary or even the pastor could dispense those who are in the separate location.
Click to expand...
a) I mean, the church is obligated to provide Mass and priests are limited to a number of masses a day. They are under the pain of sin to ensure that the faithful meet their obligations.

b) this is true but not the case here

c) they could but then those people, then, could also just head home. A dispensation is not conditional.
 
1ke said:
40.png
Xanthippe_Voorhees:
the burden of proof is for you to list the Cannon that defines this…not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Not at all. It’s not a matter of canon law.
Click to expand...
Attending Mass and the dispensation thereof isn’t a matter of cannon law?

You’ll have to take that up with the Church then as Cannon 834-848 deal directly with that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top