Reserved seating, exceptionally annoyed

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Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
Attending Mass and the dispensation thereof isn’t a matter of cannon law?

You’ll have to take that up with the Church then as Cannon 834-848 deal directly with that
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No, whether or not televised mass fulfills the obligation isn’t a matter of canon law. Neither is whether telephone confession fulfills the sacrament.

It’s your position is that a live televised mass fulfills the obligation, I think you need to prove it. Where’s the Vatican document that says it does?

And what’s the range on a live broadcast mass? Do the people in the gym across the street fulfill their obligation when the mass is broadcast? Do the people 5 miles away in an auditorium? Do the people across town in a parish hall? Do the people at home?
 
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Tulitas said:
What I stated is clearly on the property. :roll_eyes:
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Doesn’t matter. It’s in a completely separate building. What does it matter if it’s on the property or off the property? How is it different?

I’m being serious. What if the parish doesn’t have another building on the property but there is a high school down the street with an auditorium. Would that be the same? Why or why not?

There isn’t anything magical about it being on the property or off. It’s about whether people are PRESENT in the assembly or not.
 
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Parishes are considered the entire property. Mass in a school ON THE PROPERTY is considered ok as well.
 
Our Church reserved seats for the kids who receive the sacrament up front.

The next rows of seats are for mom and dad.

Everyone else finds a seat where ever they like in the back.

Did you get a DVD for the event?
 
Tulitas said:
Parishes are considered the entire property. Mass in a school ON THE PROPERTY is considered ok as well.
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No, the Church is the Church. The parish is a territory comprising square miles. The mass doesn’t take place in the “parish” it takes place in the church. Or an auditorium. Or a stadium. Wherever. What makes the building on the property any different than the building down the road?
 
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That’s not what we are discussing, That’s you trying to justify your unreasable position which the Bishop has ruled on.
 
1ke said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Attending Mass and the dispensation thereof isn’t a matter of cannon law?

You’ll have to take that up with the Church then as Cannon 834-848 deal directly with that
Click to expand...
No, whether or not televised mass fulfills the obligation isn’t a matter of canon law. Neither is whether telephone confession fulfills the sacrament.

It’s your position is that a live televised mass fulfills the obligation, I think you need to prove it. Where’s the Vatican document that says it does?

And what’s the range on a live broadcast mass? Do the people in the gym across the street fulfill their obligation when the mass is broadcast? Do the people 5 miles away in an auditorium? Do the people across town in a parish hall? Do the people at home?
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You admitted that WYD Mass would fulfill the obligation. In Toronto, the farthest participants were well over a mile away. You had nearly a MILLION attendees (850k by conservative estimates). Most church halls and participants are well within those parameters. And there were roads, large tents, and even physical structures as barriers. Physical is very subjective.

How a priest defines “present” is up to him within reason. A church-owned gym is within reason.
 
I read traditionally people would be seated or standing in church in this order:
  • women at the left, men at the right
  • older people in front, younger people in the back
    Today it is havoc regarding these old rules but the timing rule should be generally applied imho - you arrive early you get to seat anywhere you like or not sit at all (I have seen people going in the back to stand right from the start) and live the seats for everyone else. You arrive late you can’t pick because this disturbs the entire church by you claiming arrangements.
Imagine - when we will have to sit in front of God we will no longer be arranged by our own desires and expectations but by God’s Angels and His decisions and rules. The mass/liturgy makes sense as an esoteric rehearsal of that moment too. And pushing in front and being demanding is not developing a spiritual state at all.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
You admitted that WYD Mass would fulfill the obligation
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Well, you’ve put words in my mouth.

With WYD people are outdoors, in one body, although quite large. Like the Sermon on the Mount in Jesus’s day.

I would not say someone in a HS gym watching it on TV was “at” the mass.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.
 
1ke said:
If you are at the mass— in the actual place the mass is being offered— and have screens broadcasting like a Jumbotron so those farther back can see, that is fine.

If you are not physically present and watching it from another location— another building for example— that does not fulfill your obligation.
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1ke said:
Well, you’ve put words in my mouth.

With WYD people are outdoors, in one body, although quite large. Like the Sermon on the Mount in Jesus’s day.

I would not say someone in a HS gym watching it on TV was “at” the mass.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.
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You can disagree but I don’t think the Church–or some Bishops–agree with that statement. You are unwilling to draw lines. In Toronto there were a few buildings entirely surrounded by participants. Were people in those buildings in the clear? What about those buildings at the very back of the nearly million-strong crowd? If one person was touching them, does it count?

Modern technology and volumes of people bring up issues that those in Jesus time never thought of. It was very clear that everyone at the Sermon at the Mount could hear Jesus clearly.
 
My parish has 2 seperate masses for first communion students. One for students in the parish school and another for those in ccd who go to the public schools and that helps with some of the seating problem.
 
Sacraments of initiation during regular Sunday mass strikes me as something that works better in small villages where most of the relatives and friends of the person or people would mostly be attending that mass anyway.

Dumping large numbers of extra people into an already full Sunday mass without any planning just seems like a bad idea.
 
Oh, dear YES! We publicize the sacramental masses way ahead of time and make announcements so the ‘regulars’ can make alternate arrangements. Personally, I think the ‘sacramental’ masses should be apart of the regular mass schedule. The exception being Easter Vigil.

My husband and I attend the 8 am Mass on a regular basis and Confirmation and 1st Communion is generally at the 10:30 am Mass. What kills me are the people that arrive during the 8 am Mass in order to save seats for the 10:30 am Mass. In years past, our DRE has almost had to wrestle people in order to save the seats for the 1st Communicants or Confirmands! I actually find it ironically funny that the only time people want the front pew is when they need to take pictures.

This weekend is Confirmation with our new Bishop. We are also in the process of renovations - which means our seating is lessened. This will be interesting.
 
I had the same issue when my daughter was confirmed. I spend the hour before mass, helping the kiddos get ready, so by the time I went in to mass, I had a horrible seat. Not sure what the solution is.
 
Oh my gosh!! My husband and I were attending a Mass one time, we got there about 20-25 minutes before Mass and it was already quite crowded. We found a row that was empty in the middle but both ends of the pew were occupied. We went up to the pew, genuflected, but the man and his wife wouldn’t scoot down. I kind of stood there waiting for him to move. He impolitely said, “go around us.” He and his wife made no attempt to get up to let us go to the middle. I got so frustrated, I just looked at him and said, “are you kidding me right now?” My husband was like, let’s just go somewhere else, but not me…lol. I had to tell the man how ridiculous he was acting first. I wouldn’t have minded if he and his wife would’ve just gotten up to let us in the middle of the pew, but they wanted my husband, myself and my children to attempt to maneuver around them. I probably wasn’t being very Christian-like, but neither was that man.
 
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