Resignation

[MariaTS]

Genetically you are a male.

If you are living as a female and everyone thinks you are a female then there is scandal whether or not you wish to admit it.

If you accept the Catechism then you must accept that.

I posted the relevant paragraphs and do so once again (you ignored them or at least did not comment on them when I posted them the first time).

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.

As you can see in paragraph 2285, the scandal is grave when it is committed by those who are to teach others, as a youth minister does.

No one can know your heart but they can know your actions, you say that you accept “the Catechism, Scripture, and Dogma and I do not falter” yet you chose to ignore these paragraphs of the Catechism. So do you truly live them and accept them? It does not appear so in your posting here.

The problem here is that you say you accept them but chose to live in a situation that can cause scandal as no one can truly know what you do in private. Add to this that you live with an ex-boyfriend which would cause scandal if you were a female but if people know that you are a male and live with an “ex-boyfriend” that causes even more scandal.

As I said, I would stand with any pastor that says you can not be a youth minister, if I was a parent I would not allow my child to participate in any youth ministry you were a minister in. No one has a right to serve in a ministry and those who can cause scandal should not do so at all.

I am sorry and feel for you and will continue to pray for you but this is the way it must be to uphold what the Church Teaches.

There is nothing in the Catechism that says, “A Transgendered Girl living as her true gender is living in scandal,” nor that says, “A Transgendered Girl may not serve as a Youth Minister”. I have not chosen to ignore these paragraphs of the catechism, they simply do not state that I am living in scandal. Why should whether I have a penis or a vagina determine the degree of any scandal? Also, show me a quote from the Catechism that states that two unmarried people who are not in any sexual or romantic relationship and are just friends are causing scandal by living together. No pastor has ever said that I cannot be a Youth Minister, only parishioners. Also, how am I in any way a threat to the physical or mental well-being of any child? Further, I never claimed that I had a right to serve as a Youth Minister and you, again, have nothing to back up your claims of me, myself, living in scandal, you only have information that tells of scandal, not information that says how I live my live is scandal. In order to uphold Church teaching, do men have to beat, rape, and threaten me? As, this is the only reason I resigned as Youth Minister and you do claim that this is the way it must be.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Odd how you and your pal must stoop to childish reasoning when someone challanges you.

Words MEAN SOMETHING, titles mean something.

If a person volunteers at a hospital and that does not make them a medical professional.

If someone volunteers at a parish, that does not make them part of the pastoral staff. Dioceses have very clear job descriptions and guidelines. For instance, a youth minister must be of a certain age, they must be a practicing Catholic, they must have passed extensive background checks, they must be educated, they must live a life that is in keeping with a Catholic.

The Church has job descriptions and clear guidelines.

I have never claimed to be a youth minister. I am a volunteer. You will not find any case of me making any other claim. As a volunteer, there are guidelines and rules that govern my behaviour and interaction with children and young people.

You want to know my title? It is Volunteer Catechist. My Diocese has me on record as such.

You know what. She should of originally said she is a vounteer in a youth ministry related capicity. She would be telling the truth by all definitions and not having to worry about an official title. My church doesnt have a youth minister in any official capcity… I don’t think she is hung up on titles of officialndom as you are. If I were a parent the official title of some one dealing with the youth of the parish isnt something I waste my time getting hung up on. Remember she is 18, they do make a few more mistakes than us 40 somethings.

 

[kage_ar]

Yet another reason that there are clear rules that disallow an 18 year old from serving as a youth minister or youth ministry volunteer.

Perhaps this poster is or wishes to be a “core team leader” these are teens in the youth group who function to as peer-to-peer leaders.

It does seem that the OP is attempting to present a false image of their capacity in the parish. This does nothing to persuade the reader of the authenticity of any other claims.

 

[MariaTS]

You know what. She should of originally said she is a vounteer in a youth ministry related capicity. She would be telling the truth by all definitions and not having to worry about an official title. My church doesnt have a youth minister in any official capcity… I don’t think she is hung up on titles of officialndom as you are. If I were a parent the official title of some one dealing with the youth of the parish isnt something I waste my time getting hung up on. Remember she is 18, they do make a few more mistakes than us 40 somethings.

And even so, people in their 40’s make mistakes. If everyone who made a mistake was not allowed to work or volunteer at a Parish then the Roman Catholic Church would not exist.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Ross Allen Hoffman, 11 grade church history class West catholic HS 1984 /1985 school year.

And this is proof in reference to what?

 

[Tedster]

Also, show me a quote from the Catechism that states that two unmarried people who are not in any sexual or romantic relationship and are just friends are causing scandal by living together.

Read this: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72049

Q: What if the a man and his girlfriend did not have any sexual relationship for the entire period of cohabitation?

Even if a couple does not engage in sexual relations for the entire time of cohabitation, their “shacking up” gives scandal and can be become an occassion of sin. For “the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense"(CCC no. 2284). “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!” Luke 17:1

 

[MariaTS]

Yet another reason that there are clear rules that disallow an 18 year old from serving as a youth minister or youth ministry volunteer.

Perhaps this poster is or wishes to be a “core team leader” these are teens in the youth group who function to as peer-to-peer leaders.

It does seem that the OP is attempting to present a false image of their capacity in the parish. This does nothing to persuade the reader of the authenticity of any other claims.

I am not presenting a false image, I am a Youth Minister. The age requirements are different as you have stated in different areas, and the age requirement in the parishes where I live is 18. You cannot back up your present age criteria nor can I, so who is right? Neither of us because it is based on the area.

 

[MariaTS]

Q: What if the a man and his girlfriend did not have any sexual relationship for the entire period of cohabitation?

Even if a couple does not engage in sexual relations for the entire time of cohabitation, their “shacking up” gives scandal and can be become an occassion of sin. For “the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense"(CCC no. 2284). “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!” Luke 17:1

This does not apply to two individuals who are not in a romantic or sexual relationship. You didn’t give me any proof about two individuals who are just friends and happen to live together being scandal.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I am not presenting a false image, I am a Youth Minister. The age requirements are different as you have stated in different areas, and the age requirement in the parishes where I live is 18. You cannot back up your present age criteria nor can I, so who is right? Neither of us because it is based on the area.

You could back up your criteria by giving the diocese but I would not advise you to do that.

This case would best be handled pastorally with your pastor rather than being dumped into the public, even through an anonymous forum such as this.

Having said that, you chose to do it this way.

You say that you are really a female and that you live with a male that you are not married to. That is scandal as defined by the Church. You must accept that if you say that you accept all that the Church Teaches, either that or admit that you do not do so and move on.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

This does not apply to two individuals who are not in a romantic or sexual relationship. You didn’t give me any proof about two individuals who are just friends and happen to live together being scandal.

If you can not see this in the Catechism paragraphs listed then you should not be a Youth Minister as you do not know what the Catechism is saying.

 

[MariaTS]

If you can not see this in the Catechism paragraphs listed then you should not be a Youth Minister as you do not know what the Catechism is saying.

No individual, thinking logically, would see two people living together in a sexual and romantic relationship the same as two people living together who are just friends.

 

[Tedster]

This does not apply to two individuals who are not in a romantic or sexual relationship. You didn’t give me any proof about two individuals who are just friends and happen to live together being scandal.

I can open your eyes, but I cannot make you see. You are splitting hairs to justify your lifestyle and actions. I suspect you did not even fully read the information I gave you. If you did, you either:

a) didn’t do it with an open mind, trying to find the truth
b) you read it so quickly that you just simply didn’t understand it
c) you will find loopholes an hide in them.

I truly am sorry for you Maria, and will keep you in my prayers.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No individual, thinking logically, would see two people living together in a sexual and romantic relationship the same as two people living together who are just friends.

The way people hook up today this is just as Tedster says, you are attempting to rationalize something that is not right.

I too will pray for you.

 

[MariaTS]

I can open your eyes, but I cannot make you see. You are splitting hairs to justify your lifestyle and actions. I suspect you did not even fully read the information I gave you. If you did, you either:

a) didn’t do it with an open mind, trying to find the truth
b) you read it so quickly that you just simply didn’t understand it
c) you will find loopholes an hide in them.

I truly am sorry for you Maria, and will keep you in my prayers.

What lifestyle? What actions? The only lifestyle or action that could possibly be reprehensible is living with a friend and I did read your information, none of it says this is wrong, who I live with.

 

[MariaTS]

The way people hook up today this is just as Tedster says, you are attempting to rationalize something that is not right.

I too will pray for you.

You are simply comparing two different situations as the same.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What lifestyle? What actions? The only lifestyle or action that could possibly be reprehensible is living with a friend and I did read your information, none of it says this is wrong, who I live with.

If even one person thinks that you are having sex, which is very possible as you appear to be a female living with and unrelated male, then you are guilty of scandal, period.

Either you accept that or you do not accept what the Church Teaches.

It is time to wake up.

This is the last I will say to you on this as it is very hard to discuss things with people who chose to stay blind and rationalize their behavior (they will have an answer for everything).

And here is the proof of what I just said.

You are simply comparing two different situations as the same.

You just refuse to take what the Catechism says.

 

[MariaTS]

If even one person thinks that you are having sex, which is very possible as you appear to be a female living with and unrelated male, then you are guilty of scandal, period.

Either you accept that or you do not accept what the Church Teaches.

It is time to wake up.

This is the last I will say to you on this as it is very hard to discuss things with people who chose to stay blind and rationalize their behavior (they will have an answer for everything).

You just refuse to take what the Catechism says.

Anyone who thinks we are having sex simply has sex on their mind. Also, technically no one knows that we live together. I do accept what the church teaches in its entirety. So, I have woken up. Also, I do not refuse what the Catechism says because you used it to compare two entirely different situations as the same. I am simply stating that which is the most logical. I am not rationalizing behavior because there is no behavior. Further, If I lived by myself I would be in sub-standard housing in run-down slums. A severely physically disabled and transgendered girl in sub-standard housing in run-down slums would be in a very dangerous situation.

 

[Tedster]

What lifestyle?

Living as a female, as you have stated.

What actions?

Living with an ex-boyfriend, as you have stated.

The only lifestyle or action that could possibly be reprehensible is living with a friend and I did read your information, none of it says this is wrong, who I live with.

Wrong. Cohabitation of those of opposite sexes (this assumes your interpretation that you are living as a woman), especially those who have had a previous relationship, leads to scandal, period. Right or wrong, people may assume you are in a sexual relationship and that you believe it is approved by the Church. Thus, SCANDAL.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No one thinks that we are having sex so therefore I am not guilty of scandal. I do accept what the church teaches in its entirety.

May I ask how you know the mind of everyone? That would be a neat trick I could use.

I think you posted here in part to help you and your attempt to rationalize your behavior and now you are upset that you are not getting it. I am sorry that I could not help you out.

And everyone does not think that as I am doubtful.

 

[MariaTS]

Living as a female, as you have stated.
Living with an ex-boyfriend, as you have stated.
Wrong. Cohabitation of those of opposite sexes (this assumes your interpretation that you are living as a woman), especially those who have had a previous relationship, leads to scandal, period. Right or wrong, people may assume you are in a sexual relationship and that you believe it is approved by the Church. Thus, SCANDAL.

Living as my true gender, which is female, is not an unacceptable or bad lifestyle. No one knows who I live with so there is no assumption.