Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

St_Violet · Apr 14, 2007

gosh it’s really not easy trying to get your questions answers in these forums

adventistnomore · Apr 14, 2007

St_Violet said:
I have a few questions.

I would like to know, if it is really difficult to remove your membership from the SDA church and why?

I have heard people who had a difficult time trying to have their membership removed from the SDA church and there are other people who didn’t have trouble at all.

It’s a fairly simple process (submit a written request, voted on by the church membership at a business meeting), but many parishes are reluctant to “give up” on a fallen away member who requests to have his membership dropped. There’s a sentimentality that often compels some members to resist dropping a person’s name from the rolls. This is most often the case when a non-practicing child is involved.

Is the church’s disciplinary acts really based on Ellen G white?

As the most influential Adventist pioneer, yes, she had a major part in shaping the church’s disciplinary mechanisms.

What kind of disciplinary acts is there?

“Disfellowshipping” is the strongest (and perhaps, most common) disciplinary action, in which the offending member is dropped from the membership rolls. In the case of a moral fault, he can only be readmitted after a public confession of guilt ad reprentance, followed by a re-baptism. If you want a more comprehensive portrait of Adventist church discipline, I suggest reviewing the appropriate chapter in the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual, available as a single, large PDF:

adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/Seventh-day-Adventist-Church-Manual-17th-edition.pdf

and one more, why do modern SDA not acknowldge EGW’s false prophecies. most SDA confirm that they believe she really is a prophet and just quotes from the books of revelations of what is going to happen in the end times, but they never seem to talk about her prophecies that failed

There’s a tendency to reinterpret those prophecies so as to say they were conditional on unfulfilled variables, etc. This concept is best illustrated by examples. Try this link from the E G White Estate:

whiteestate.org/issues/faq-unus.html#unusual-section-d

adventistnomore · Apr 15, 2007

pedja said:
Paul is warning the Colossians **not against the observance **of those practices as such but **against anyone who passes judgement **on how to eat, drink and observe sacred times.

How would you now come to the conclusion that Paul abolished Sabbathkeeping?

The key is that Paul describes “the sabbath” (as well as the “feast days” and “new moons”) as “shadows.” Because they are shadows, one should not pass judgment upon the method of their observation; they simply are not important enough. In fact, if they are mere shadows, one could cease celebrating them altogether (as has been done with the feasts and new moons).

St_Violet · Apr 15, 2007

Hosea 2:11

11 I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed feasts

Can someone explain this passage to me, when I read it it really clear that GOD said Sabbath Days which includes the seventh day, alot of people who are pro sabbath actually think the LORD speaks of Celebrational sabbathss and yearly sabbaths and monthly, etc. but just in that passage alone you can see that GOD not only included the yearly and monthly but also the 7th day, they kinda make it seem like GOD was Bluffing. I would also ask before anyone questions to read the entire chapter of that Verse just so that passage alone won’t be taken out of context.

Maria1212 · Apr 15, 2007

adventistnomore said:
If you want a more comprehensive portrait of Adventist church discipline, I suggest reviewing the appropriate chapter in the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual, available as a single, large PDF:

adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/Seventh-day-Adventist-Church-Manual-17th-edition.pdf

There’s a tendency to reinterpret those prophecies so as to say they were conditional on unfulfilled variables, etc. This concept is best illustrated by examples. Try this link from the E G White Estate:

whiteestate.org/issues/faq-unus.html#unusual-section-d

Thanks for the great links Adventistnomore!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

pedja · Apr 15, 2007

St_Violet said:
Hosea 2:11

11 I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed feasts

Can someone explain this passage to me, when I read it it really clear that GOD said Sabbath Days which includes the seventh day, alot of people who are pro sabbath actually think the LORD speaks of Celebrational sabbathss and yearly sabbaths and monthly, etc. but just in that passage alone you can see that GOD not only included the yearly and monthly but also the 7th day, they kinda make it seem like GOD was Bluffing. I would also ask before anyone questions to read the entire chapter of that Verse just so that passage alone won’t be taken out of context.

This verse is absolutely clear when you read in the context of the whole 2nd chapter and the Book of Hosea. It talks about all painful consequences and the blessings (verse 8/material goods, corn, wine, oil) God wants to take away from Israel because it turned away from Him and fell into idolatory (verse 5/harlot).

The verse 11 says “I will also cause all her **mirth **to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her Sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts”. In other translations it says “I will cause all her **joy **to cease…” This seem to be the almost ultimate punishment for their sins, taking away they joy of celebrating the day of rest (Shabbat) and all other religious festivals which reminded them on how God has protectively led them through history and now wants to forsake them.

This has nothing to do with abolishing the 7th day Sabbath whatsoever

pedja · Apr 15, 2007

adventistnomore said:
The key is that Paul describes “the sabbath” (as well as the “feast days” and “new moons”) as “shadows.” Because they are shadows, one should not pass judgment upon the method of their observation; they simply are not important enough. In fact, if they are mere shadows, **one could cease celebrating them altogether **(as has been done with the feasts and new moons).

I think you are reading too much into it now. Btw I always thought that the key is that something was “nailed on the cross” (2:14)?

Stephen_Korsman · Apr 15, 2007

adventistnomore said:
The key is that Paul describes “the sabbath” (as well as the “feast days” and “new moons”) as “shadows.” Because they are shadows, one should not pass judgment upon the method of their observation; they simply are not important enough. In fact, if they are mere shadows, one could cease celebrating them altogether (as has been done with the feasts and new moons).

pedja said:
I think you are reading too much into it now. Btw I always thought that the key is that something was “nailed on the cross” (2:14)?

How is too much being read into it?

The text states that the Sabbath is a shadow; you acknowledge that it refers to the Sabbath here:

pedja said:
“Therefore do not let (talking to the Collosians) anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

It`s quite clear that the Colossians were keeping the Sabbath

Obviously some people judged/criticized/disagreed on the way how they kept it.

Paul is telling the Colossians “let **those **people not judge **you **on how you will keep the Sabbath”.

Your points 1 and 2 - is that not reading too much into the text? Where do you see evidence that they were keeping the Sabbath? Surely, without reading that into the text, one could also say that they were being told not to let people judge them about whether they kept the Sabbath or not?

If they were shadows, and two of those shadows (feasts and new moons) are no longer kept, why insist on keeping other shadows?

Can you explain what you think a “shadow” is, and what the classification as a shadow implies about importance?

Maria1212 · Apr 16, 2007

pedja · Apr 16, 2007

Those pamphlets are really poor Maria. Especially the Sabbath one. I seriously don’t even know where to start.

The best thing is it says “ it is true that the Catholic Church through the authority of Christ replaced the Hebrew Sabbath with the Lord`s Day…” Yes that is very true, the Catholic Church replaced it. Christ never gave anyone the authority of replacing His laws!

amills · Apr 16, 2007

pedja said:
Those pamphlets are really poor Maria. Especially the Sabbath one. I seriously don’t even know where to start.

The best thing is it says “ it is true that the Catholic Church through the authority of Christ replaced the Hebrew Sabbath with the Lord`s Day…” Yes that is very true, the Catholic Church replaced it. Christ never gave anyone the authority of replacing His laws!

Before I read any of these - Pedja could you in general tell me what is wrong with them? Do they misrepresent the Seventh Day Adventists or lie about them? Or do you disagree with the theology presented? Are they worth reading?

For example - if I were to describe “The Great Controversy” I would say it is historically inaccurate, misrepresents Catholic dogma and lies about the Catholic Church. This book is worth reading only if one has a solid background in history and Catholic theology. Otherwise to believe this book would be a tragedy.

pedja · Apr 16, 2007

amills said:
Before I read any of these - Pedja could you in general tell me what is wrong with them? Do they misrepresent the Seventh Day Adventists or lie about them? Or do you disagree with the theology presented? Are they worth reading?

For example - if I were to describe “The Great Controversy” I would say it is historically inaccurate, misrepresents Catholic dogma and lies about the Catholic Church. This book is worth reading only if one has a solid background in history and Catholic theology. Otherwise to believe this book would be a tragedy.

amills, the problem here is that I might not be one of the typical Adventists you meet in the US. I am also not a great expert on EGW, I know that some of the Adv. hold her in extremely high regards but, as I said, I really cant tell you much about her because she never played any significant role in my Christian life. What I mean about the pamhlets is that they (in my view) incorrectly interpret the Bible, especially about the Sabbath/Sunday. I have no problem in saying that I am a member of the SDA not because I know all of her teachings 100% but because, as far as I have researched, they stand the closest to a true interpretation of the Bible.

Some of the information is of course correct, the teachings of the SDA, statistics etc, but that is nothing special because you can easily read about all that stuff on any official SDA website.

So yea, I disagree with the theology presented in them.

amills · Apr 16, 2007

Thanks - I do not mind reading information for the different theological views but I do not like to see false information. Someone recently posted a link to an anti-Adventist website wanting to know if the information was true. One look at that website and I could tell you it was not true - then it is not worth any time to read it.

It sounds like you are a progressive Adventist. Are there certain beliefs of the Adventist list of 28 that you reject?

pedja · Apr 16, 2007

amills said:
Thanks - I do not mind reading information for the different theological views but I do not like to see false information. Someone recently posted a link to an anti-Adventist website wanting to know if the information was true. One look at that website and I could tell you it was not true - then it is not worth any time to read it.

It sounds like you are a progressive Adventist. Are there certain beliefs of the Adventist list of 28 that you reject?

As far as I remember not really, but I wanted to check them out one day for myself, like to really study it and understand it completely. As I said I dont believe that the membership to the SDA is saving me but somehow I think even if I was ever to first discover religion it would be the one which keeps the Sabbath (I quite like Judaism etc) but of course it had to be Jesus centered.

But the 28 beliefs is definitelly something I wanna get into deeper.

Maria1212 · Apr 19, 2007

pedja said:
As far as I remember not really, but I wanted to check them out one day for myself, like to really study it and understand it completely. As I said I dont believe that the membership to the SDA is saving me but somehow I think even if I was ever to first discover religion it would be the one which keeps the Sabbath (I quite like Judaism etc) but of course it had to be Jesus centered.

But the 28 beliefs is definitelly something I wanna get into deeper.

Hi Pedja,

I recommend you study these 28 beliefs. Adventism permits abortion, even though it violates the commandment “Thou shall not kill.”

If you find one of the resources posted on this thread to be incorrect, please tell us specifically which part is wrong, and why.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Maria1212 · Apr 19, 2007

pedja said:
Some of the information is of course correct, the teachings of the SDA, statistics etc, but that is nothing special because you can easily read about all that stuff on any official SDA website.

So yea, I disagree with the theology presented in them.

I am glad to hear the information on the teachings of the SDA Church is correct. I don` t expect you to agree with the theology since you reject Catholicism.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Maria1212 · Apr 19, 2007

Hi,

Is anyone familiar with this website?

ratzlaf.com/downloads.htm

Do you think the sources are credible?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

6YRSHOME · Apr 19, 2007

Maria1212 said:
Dear Fellow Catholics,

I just stumbled across some great resources.

pjpiisoe.org/Resources_Pamphlets.html#Anchor_Denominations

pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/236TheSabbath.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/106Seventh-DayAdventism.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/112Seventh-DayAdventistsFacts.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/109Seventh-DayAdventistsRaces.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/038EllenGWhitePlagiarism.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/111Seventh-DayAdventistsSleep.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/108Seventh-DayAdventistsAbortion.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/110Seventh-DayAdventistsDivorce.pdf
pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/107Seventh-DayAdventism.pdf

There are multiple pamphlets on Seventh Day Adventism that I did not post but encourage everyone to view all of them. (I just got tired of cutting and pasting!). I wish I would have known about this a long time ago!!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Thanks Maria. These are great. Just what I’ve been looking for.

Maria1212 · Apr 19, 2007

6YRSHOME said:
Thanks Maria. These are great. Just what I’ve been looking for.

Thanks! I am glad you found them useful too. I know they aren

t perfect, but they are short and to the point! It is nice not having to reinvent the wheel! They complement the tracts on CAF

s homepage.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

jsenner · Apr 19, 2007

I think you just discovered the website of one of the people who is causing more people to leave SDAism than almost anyone else is! I’m extremely familiar with this website. It’s not 100% credible (almost nothing is) but it’s excellent!

Jeremiah

Maria1212 said:
Hi,

Is anyone familiar with this website?

ratzlaf.com/downloads.htm

Do you think the sources are credible?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

St_Violet

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adventistnomore

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adventistnomore

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St_Violet

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Maria1212

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pedja

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pedja

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Stephen_Korsman

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Maria1212

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pedja

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amills

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pedja

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amills

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pedja

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Maria1212

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Maria1212

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Maria1212

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6YRSHOME

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Maria1212

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jsenner

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