Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

[Stephen_Korsman]

Hi,

Is anyone familiar with this website?

ratzlaf.com/downloads.htm

Do you think the sources are credible?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

It’s a brilliant source of info. It has a Protestant angle to it, so just put aside any comments about Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc., and take the valuable stuff - which is in the majority. There are even a few things defending Catholic positions - the numbering of the commandments by Verle Streifling, for instance, is a good defence of the Catholic stance from an evangelical Protestant. There is a lot on the state of the dead and the sabbath that is of great use.

 

[pedja]

I think you just discovered the website of one of the people who is causing more people to leave SDAism than almost anyone else is! I’m extremely familiar with this website. It’s not 100% credible (almost nothing is) but it’s excellent!

Jeremiah

This website caused me to laugh. Ratzlaff keeps on repeating and repeating it like a mantra, meetings on Sundays are proof that the Sabbath has been changed, the law is abolished, we now live under the New Covenant (God actually made a mistake with the Old one because it didn´t work out quite well), the Lord´s day in Revelation is OF COURSE Sunday, etc. etc. it´s always the same and it´s never new. I heard about all that stuff hundreds of times already and I have to admit the argumentation is so poor that I just wonder people are leaving the church over that issue (God bless them anyway). Bacciocci´s books are far more conclusive on that whole subject, well even your Pope gave him a gold medal .

It doesnt convince me, and I am quite liberal SDA member, how will it ever convince the conservatives, I just dont understad.

Peace

 

[St_Violet]

you know lately, I have been trying to think like a seventh day adventist who believes that the sabbath should be kept. and who also believes that the Roman Catholic Church changed it for pagan reasons, that the early church fathers such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr,Tertullian,The Didascalia,Origen,Eusebius of Caesarea,Athanasius,John Chrysostom,Augustine, kept the sabbath. I’m really having a hard time to really pin point who what where when and why, the sabbath has been changed. it’s really beginning to seem that the SDA just assumed in reguards of sabbath changing. But I’m still trying.

I honestly have no problem that the seventh day adventist kept the sabbath, if it makes them feel closer to GOD, heck I know tons of SDAs who actually do not work on friday sunset to saturday night, when I say work I mean, they do not go to malls or stores or watch t.v, read newspapers , or do any kind of errons, although I have met some who go to malls and go shopping and do all kinds of stuff an average person does. and I find it really hilarious when two sdas happen to see each other in a mall, they tend to hide from each other so that they won’t catch each other breaking the sabbath. well I guess I’m getting off the topic. I really do not have a problem with the simple fact that their keeping the sabbath, neither do most catholics, heck alot of catholics go to mass on saturdays, I believe the problem is that the SDA’s preaches that not only is your salvation depended on your faith in christ but also keeping the sabbath. but of course they sugar code it with love, and when some sdas who seem to have no problem with sunday church goers and deny that this is what they preach, I happen to catch them yell out amen and tottally agree when the pastors preaches this hogwash.

Also my problem is the historical inaccuracy in sabbath changing.

 

[Maria1212]

This website caused me to laugh. Ratzlaff keeps on repeating and repeating it like a mantra, meetings on Sundays are proof that the Sabbath has been changed, the law is abolished, we now live under the New Covenant (God actually made a mistake with the Old one because it didn´t work out quite well).

Dear Pedja,

Most non-Catholic Christians agree that the New Covenant fullfilled the Old Covenant. No one thinks God made a mistake!

There is more than one flaw in your logic. You accuse us of claiming holding meetings on Sunday is proof that that early Christians, including the apostles, celebrated the Lord`s Day on Sunday, which fulfills the moral commandment of the Sabbath. Yet you provide no evidence to prove that this was NOT the case.

It would be more helpful to read about history of the early Christians and take a closer look at Scripture to understand how the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. Otherwise, you are merely stating your personal opinion, while providing nothing to illustrate while you might be right.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

I think you just discovered the website of one of the people who is causing more people to leave SDAism than almost anyone else is! I’m extremely familiar with this website. It’s not 100% credible (almost nothing is) but it’s excellent!

Jeremiah

Thanks for your comments Jeremiah! In particular, I thought this was a helpful article.

ratzlaf.com/Adventist%20Research%20Paper.pdf

This was also useful:
ratzlaf.com/4-17-01%20Deliberate%20Distortions%20in%20SDA.pdf

I am glad to know the website is one of the better ones out there! I hope others find it helpful too.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

It’s a brilliant source of info. It has a Protestant angle to it, so just put aside any comments about Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc., and take the valuable stuff - which is in the majority. There are even a few things defending Catholic positions - the numbering of the commandments by Verle Streifling, for instance, is a good defence of the Catholic stance from an evangelical Protestant. There is a lot on the state of the dead and the sabbath that is of great use.

Thanks for your helpful comments.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

I honestly have no problem that the seventh day adventist kept the sabbath, if it makes them feel closer to GODQUOTE]

I agree with you completely. I do not mind if Adventists choose to keep the Old Covenant sabbath. I do mind when they spread the myth that Catholics and other non-Adventists Christians fail to keep Gods commandments when they choose to celebrate Sunday as the Lords Day. However, Adventists can judge us all they want, for it does not matter. When I stand before the Lord in judgement, having worshipped Him on Sunday, will not be one of the things I will be worried about!

I also agree with you that we should strive to worship the Lord every day! I am so grateful, that as Catholics, we have daily Mass.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

Here are some more useful links. I know most of us have read them before, but it is nice to have all the links in one place.

catholic.com/library/seventh_day_adventism.asp

A PRIVATE VERSION OF HELL, By MICHELLE L. ARNOLD
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705convsb.asp

C o n v e r s i o n S t o r y

BECAUSE HE LOVES ME, By MICHELLE L. ARNOLD
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705conv.asp
I particularly recommend reading this article. The author shares her conversion to Catholicism.

Note this article in particular though for understanding Adventists beliefs:
Although not as outspokenly prejudiced as it once was, the Adventist Church is anti-Catholic. For proof, I invite anyone to examine Seventh-day Adventists Believe . . . Chapter 12, “The Remnant and Its Mission,” includes an excoriation of the Catholic Church. The rhetoric is calmer and gentler than Ellen G. White’s in The Great Controversy, but Catholicism is denounced as “a gigantic system of false religion, a mixture of truth and error.” The Catholic Church is unmasked as “the ‘man of sin”’ of 2 Thessalonians. Chapter 24 prophesies that at the end times there will be “a resurgence of the papacy” and it will enjoy “a great renewal of influence and respect—‘all the world marveled and followed the beast’ (Rev. 13:3). Already today many view the pope as the moral leader of the world.” Although the book admits that individual Catholics can be Christian, it would be hard for the reasonable person to deny that the book betrays a deep dislike for the religion these individuals profess.

Seventh-day Wondering , By Joseph M. Pavicic
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9109prot.asp

CHANGING THE SABBATH , By James Akin
catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9312chap.asp

From Sabbath to Sunday How the Church Moved Its Holy Day ,By James P. Guzek
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902fea1.asp

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[St_Violet]

hey Maria, I understand you are a former adventist, I’m curious if you have any stories about two adventists catching each other at a mall during sabbath?

 

[Maria1212]

hey Maria, I understand you are a former adventist, I’m curious if you have any stories about two adventists catching each other at a mall during sabbath?

Hi St. Violet,

I am actually a cradle Catholic! I had a strong renewal of my faith several years ago though so in many ways, I am a “revert” even though I never left the Catholic Church.

It would not surprise me to discover that some Adventists shop on the sabbath. In every religion, there are some members who follow the teachings more faithfully than others.

There are so many qualities I admire about our Adventist brothers and sisters. They have such a strong desire to be close to God, and to share their faith. That is one reason I want them to experience the fullness of our Christian faith found in the Catholic Church. They are missing out on so much that only the Catholic Church can provide.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

Hi Stephen,

I wanted to thank you again for posting this link.

theotokos.co.za/adventism/books.html

I am leaving for vacation tomorrow, and will be reading Upon This Rock, by Stephen K Ray, on the plane! A really close friend recommended this book as well and I am looking forward to reading it. I have heard really good things about the books by Stephen Ray.

I followed on of the links that some some quotes by Ellen White. I hadn`t read these two before:

“*God will never, never allow any man to pass through the pearly gates of the city of God who does not bear the signet of the faithful, His government mark.” [in context the signet mark is the Sabbath] Ellen G. White, Medical Ministry, p. 123.

“God will frown upon those who disregard his commandments and he cannot bless the church that retains Sabbath-breakers in its fellowship.” Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, 1890-06-02. *
*
“If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth.” Ellen G. White, Testimonies to the Church, Vol. 5, p. 98.

“Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, ‘Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting.’ I asked who this company were. The angel said, ‘these are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up.’” Ellen G. White, Early Writings, p. 37*

Reading things like this, increases the respect I already have for my friends who courageously left the Adventist Church. It takes real courage to go against your family and friends and to follow where the Holy Spirit is leaving you. The more I read the writings of Ellen White, the more I understand the fear that most Adventists have toward Catholics.

Let us keep in our prays our Adventists brothers and sisters, and especially those on the difficult journey of discerning where God is leading them.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[amills]

What I mean about the pamhlets is that they (in my view) incorrectly interpret the Bible, especially about the Sabbath/Sunday. I have no problem in saying that I am a member of the SDA not because I know all of her teachings 100% but because, as far as I have researched, they stand the closest to a true interpretation of the Bible.

You say the pamphlets incorrectly interpret the bible. Do the Adventists then have a method by which they interpret the Bible that somehow makes it more correct that the way the Catholics interpret the bible through the authority given by Jesus Christ?

My understanding is that Adventists interpret the bible as directed by Ellen White since she is considered a prophet. Some of the Progressive Adventist do not however consider her a prophet because of her false predictions etc. It seems to me that if you reject this belief of the Adventists and do not believe that Ellen White is a prophet then the rest of the faith comes tumbling down because you now no longer have a basis or an authority by which you can interpret the bible.

 

[amills]

I think you just discovered the website of one of the people who is causing more people to leave SDAism than almost anyone else is! I’m extremely familiar with this website. It’s not 100% credible (almost nothing is) but it’s excellent!

Jeremiah

Now how do I get my husband to stumble across this site?

 

[St_Violet]

You say the pamphlets incorrectly interpret the bible. Do the Adventists then have a method by which they interpret the Bible that somehow makes it more correct that the way the Catholics interpret the bible through the authority given by Jesus Christ?

My understanding is that Adventists interpret the bible as directed by Ellen White since she is considered a prophet. Some of the Progressive Adventist do not however consider her a prophet because of her false predictions etc. It seems to me that if you reject this belief of the Adventists and do not believe that Ellen White is a prophet then the rest of the faith comes tumbling down because you now no longer have a basis or an authority by which you can interpret the bible.

I tottally agree with you, the adventist interpret the bible directed by ellen g white, whether they choose to accept it or not. I can’t really think of any SDA doctrine that contradicts Ellen White besides the Trinity. you can’t seperate SDA from Ellen White

 

[Maria1212]

Here are two more interesting links.

ellenwhite.org/qa/q15.htm

formeradventist.com

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

It is worth taking the time to explore some of the new links on this site.

sda2rc.com/

SDA2RC, you have done a wonderful job with this site. Rather than attacking Adventists, you have done quite the opposite. You have created a place where Catholics can go to accurately learn what the Adventist Church teaches, while providing answers to both Catholics and Adventists.

The same can be said for diesdomini.com/.

I cannot recommend both of these sites enough. They provide accurate information, without anger, bias, or misperception. Both sites do a wonderful job in educating their readers with facts, rather than circular arguments and empty “fluff.” They are also great places for Catholics to visit to learn more about their faith in general.

I am very thankful for all of the time and energy spent in developing these sites and look forward to continuing to follow them.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[pedja]

It is worth taking the time to explore some of the new links on this site.

sda2rc.com/

SDA2RC, you have done a wonderful job with this site. Rather than attacking Adventists, you have done quite the opposite. You have created a place where Catholics can go to accurately learn what the Adventist Church teaches, while providing answers to both Catholics and Adventists.

The same can be said for diesdomini.com/.

I cannot recommend both of these sites enough. They provide accurate information, without anger, bias, or misperception. Both sites do a wonderful job in educating their readers with facts, rather than circular arguments and empty “fluff.” They are also great places for Catholics to visit to learn more about their faith in general.

I am very thankful for all of the time and energy spent in developing these sites and look forward to continuing to follow them.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

Very nice but factual very wrong

 

[6YRSHOME]

Very nice but factual very wrong

Really? Which facts are wrong, specifically? I can understand that you would disagree with some of the conclusions but it would be helpful to provide more than just a general statement that it’s wrong. Otherwise its hard to find your statement credible.

 

[pedja]

Really? Which facts are wrong, specifically? I can understand that you would disagree with some of the conclusions but it would be helpful to provide more than just a general statement that it’s wrong. Otherwise its hard to find your statement credible.

We are just discussing some of it in some other threads at this very moment… how many more do we need !

 

[6YRSHOME]

We are just discussing some of it in some other threads at this very moment… how many more do we need !

So in other words its wrong cause you disagree with it. Gotcha!