Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maria1212
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Maria1212 said:
Where are they factually wrong. Please be specific. Otherwise you are just stating a personal opinion, which is not credible without evidence to support it.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Click to expand...
I have asked this question also and received the same response. Pedja and I were debating the Sabbath on another thread at the time so I can only assume that it is the Sabbath issue he (or she) finds fault with.
 
6YRSHOME said:
I have asked this question also and received the same response. Pedja and I were debating the Sabbath on another thread at the time so I can only assume that it is the Sabbath issue he (or she) finds fault with.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation 6YRSHOME.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
This website has some good articals concerning Adventist doctrine from a Catholic perspective. I have not checked it’s accuracy and it has not been updated in some time.

Maybe some of you can tell me what you think of it.
 
6YRSHOME said:
This website has some good articals concerning Adventist doctrine from a Catholic perspective. I have not checked it’s accuracy and it has not been updated in some time.

Maybe some of you can tell me what you think of it.

anglefire.com/ms.seanie/adventism/aidex.html
Click to expand...
This is not the website that I attemped to link to. I could not find the edit button so please disregard this post. I will try and post the correct website. I truley appologize!!!:o I don’t know what happened.
 
6YRSHOME said:
This is not the website that I attemped to link to. I could not find the edit button so please disregard this post. I will try and post the correct website. I truley appologize!!!:o I don’t know what happened.
Click to expand...
I think if you PM the moderators, they can remove/edit your message for you.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
6YRSHOME said:
Okay here is the correct information.

angelfire.com/ms/seanie/adventism/aindex.html

The name of the site is Sean’s Faith Webpage. I checked this and it does take you to the correct site.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I had visited this site about a year ago but it looks like it has been updated since then. On one of the sublinks (angelfire.com/ms/seanie/adventism/sdainvitation.html) he responds to Adventists who want to know why he is “attacking” their religion. I know some Adventists here wonder the same thing. I thought he did a good job responding to this, and because his comments echo what I feel, I am posting part of it here.

*First, it is simply not in order for groups which teach vehemently against the Catholic Church to then come along and complain that their own group comes under criticism. The Seventh Day Adventist church ranks as very much anti-Catholic, and it is a duty of Catholics to respond to such error when it is encountered. This is the purpose of loyal Catholic websites such as this one. *

*Seventh-Day Adventism has traditionally taught, and continues to teach, that the 1260 years of Daniel 7 refers to the “papal power” from 538 to 1798. This view is refuted elsewhere on this site. However, the view itself, being so openly hostile to the Catholic faith, must of necessity be refuted. If teachings such as this are not a criticism of the Catholic Church, then what is? *
*Secondly, the point needs to be made that this site, and many other Catholic websites, seek to refute Adventism as a religious belief system; we are not interested in writing against individuals who sincerely hold Adventist beliefs. There is a big difference here. This webmaster has absolutely no interest whatsoever in writing against individuals. While it is certainl inexcusable to judge individual Adventist persons, (and I certainly would never condone individual verbal attacks on any person, of whatever religion), yet the religious system to whuich a person subscribes is a valid object of criticism, especially if it makes claims of authenticity which cannot be supported. *

(The bolded part is for emphasis and is not in bold on the site.).

I thought he links to some credible sites like EWTN. I enjoyed the article by Father William Saunders but think more reading is necessary to understand why Christians celebrate Sunday as the Lord`s day.

I was also happy to see Dies Domini linked to the site. I cannot recommend this site enough. It is also being updated frequently so it is good to visit it on a regular basis. I hope that one day the information on sites such as this will be published in a book format.

Thank you for taking the time to post the link. The more credible resources, the better.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Maria1212 said:
The Seventh Day Adventist church ranks as very much anti-Catholic, and it is a duty of Catholics to respond to such error when it is encountered. This is the purpose of loyal Catholic websites such as this one.
Click to expand...
This webmaster has absolutely no interest whatsoever in writing against individuals. While it is certainl inexcusable to judge individual Adventist persons, (and I certainly would never condone individual verbal attacks on any person, of whatever religion), yet the religious system to whuich a person subscribes is a valid object of criticism, especially if it makes claims of authenticity which cannot be supported.

I was also happy to see Dies Domini linked to the site. I cannot recommend this site enough. It is also being updated frequently so it is good to visit it on a regular basis. I hope that one day the information on sites such as this will be published in a book format.

Thank you for taking the time to post the link. The more credible resources, the better.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

This is a typical cookie-cutter sentiment where someone tries to say that one is “anti” whatever, just because they are criticising a religious system to which they subscribe.

Out of the dozens and dozens of catholics I have personally discussed my views with; I cannot think of more than one or two that i would class as truly anti-Adventists. But, even those ones i don’t see as true Catholics either, because of their approach. I think it’s a strawman when someone calls people “anti-Adventist” or “anti-Catholic” just because their religious views are being questioned or criticised.

I have the Deis Domini article here in my Library. I agree, it does a good job of explaining the Catholic position. Some “Adventists” have definitely twisted this piece of writing by The Pope out of context, to say things it does not say.

I find it disappointing though to see how forum members here will accept so readily what this fellow says re
"While it is certainly inexcusable to judge individual Adventist persons, (and I certainly would never condone individual verbal attacks on any person, of whatever religion), yet the religious system to whuich a person subscribes is a valid object of criticism, especially if it makes claims of authenticity which cannot be supported.
Click to expand...
I have tried to say things like this in response to the accusation that I, (my beliefs) are anti-Catholic, and several forum members have clearly tried to say they would not accept that I am not “anti-Catholic.” No matter what I have said; certain ones here have been adamant that, no matter what, I, and all protestants are “anti-Catholics.”

If I believe that a certain (Catholic) belief or belief system is from Satan; how does that make me “anti-Catholic?” Just because a Catholic may think that something I believe is from Satan; how does this make them “anti-Adventist?”

It is very rare that we can make such a charge stick on either side.
 
On the flip side of the coin; it can be noted that there are some “ministries” which could be classed as “anti-Catholic.” I believe, however, that this is the exception, rather than the rule. 🙂
 
Don’t know if this is off topic, but I thought the following might help as a possible Catholic explanation of what is really going on with the days of Creation:
I would rather suggest to you that the real and ultimate apocalyptic expressions of the mystery are the days of the creation and the beast. Toward that end, their picture sheds far more light on the matter: Amill is, there is light and darkness mixed together, gradually maturing toward the end. Hence, for them, the sky is black in the beginning and black at the end, with an ever maturing gray as the main brunt of history.
Click to expand...
But the days of creation are not a continous gray. No, FIRST comes darkness (“evening came”), and THEN comes light (“and morning followed”), not “Well the sky is basically gray for most of Church history.”
Click to expand...
And this is really the way that Salvation history has gone. Salvation history is not a continuous gray ever maturing. It is rather “BACK AND FORTH”. FIRST sin reigns (“evening came”), THEN it is redeemed (“and morning followed”). You don’t believe me? Simply look at it.
Click to expand...
First the darkness of the Fall, which descends rather quickly into the near total wickedness of Noah’s day. But it is redeemed (the Flood).
Click to expand...
Then the dark attempt at a materialistic dominion of Babel, but redeemed through the confounding of languages and the calling Abraham.
Click to expand...
Then the darkness of Egyptian slavery follows, followed by the light of the Exodus and Promised Land.
Click to expand...
Then the Jews gradually fall into apostasy, but they are chastised and restored by light to love of God through the exile and return to homeland.
Click to expand...
then the OT Antichrist viciously persecutes them, followed by the ultimate light and the coming of the Messiah. Note, this is number five.
Click to expand...
But no sooner does Christ come than the sun sets again in pagan persecution and resistance to conversion. But the sun rises gloriously with Catholic Christendom. And note this is day six.
Click to expand...
And herein, Genesis connects. There are two stories of creation in Genesis. In one, God creates man on the SIXTH day, and in another , He creates them on the FIRST day. Not petty stuff here. For there is meaning with this. For in the SIXTH age of salvation history, God did indeed RE-create man in His Image by restoring him to grace by bringing multitudes of the Gentiles into the light of Christ, placing the sanctifying grace back into him, grace that he had lost with the fall.
Click to expand...
And, yet, in another sense, even in the FIRST age of Salvation history, with the Flood, God was beginning to redeem man. Indeed, the Flood cleansed the earth of sin and began anew. And so, in another sense, God was already RE-creating man in his image starting on the first day.
Click to expand...
Now back to where we were: Catholic Christendom of the Middle Ages was clearly only age SIX, but there are EIGHT days of Creation, not merely seven. For the seventh day is the OLD Sabbath, but the ultimate Sabbath is the eighth day, on which Christ Rose from the dead, and on which all the world will be resurrected at the New Creation.
Click to expand...
So the problem with amill is that it allegorically explains away the Millennium and says that day SIX is the SAME DAY as SEVEN, because, evidently, we are BOTH working and resting. But the general mystics of fully approved Private Rev mostly do not agree with this pessimism. For they speak of an intermediate apostasy and tribulation to occur BEFORE the ones of the very end of the world, and that will be followed by a glorious Age of Peace, in which Christians will be reunited, the world RE-converted to the Catholic Church, and a period of great spiritual prosperity in which sin becomes significantly lessened, that is, like an IMPERFECT rest for God’s People.
Click to expand...
Only after the age of peace will there occur the EIGHTH manifestation of sin in history, the GREAT apostasy and AC. And that shall be followed by the light of the Second Coming and aforementioned New Creation itself.
Click to expand...
Hence, the real meaning of the Millennium is not only not chiliasm, but not amill either. The Millennium is rather the glorious age of peace that we are on the verge of, that is, after perhaps the Minor Chastisement, if humanity does not repent in time.
Click to expand...
 
pedja said:
This website caused me to laugh. Ratzlaff keeps on repeating and repeating it like a mantra, meetings on Sundays are proof that the Sabbath has been changed, the law is abolished, we now live under the New Covenant (God actually made a mistake with the Old one because it didn´t work out quite well), the Lord´s day in Revelation is OF COURSE Sunday, etc. etc. it´s always the same and it´s never new. I heard about all that stuff hundreds of times already and I have to admit the argumentation is so poor that I just wonder people are leaving the church over that issue (God bless them anyway). Bacciocci´s books are far more conclusive on that whole subject, well even your Pope gave him a gold medal :D.

It doesnt convince me, and I am quite liberal SDA member, how will it ever convince the conservatives, I just dont understad.

Peace
Click to expand...
You are right Pedja

As much as Ratzlaf likes to make the lofty claims to fame; with inflated, unproven numbers, he actually is not all that convincing - even to some non-Adventists that I have talked with about him. I have all his books, and they have simply strengthened my faith and my Adventist beliefs. I believe that his questions and his objections have made/are making our Church stronger, not weaker; for it is driving people to their Bibles, and to the truth. Dale does all the un-couth things one would expect with a cult.
 
Maria1212 said:
Here is an interesting article on “soul sleep.”

sda2rc.com/dead.frameset.html posted on SDA2RC.com.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
Click to expand...
Yes, it is “interesting.” However, there are literally dozens of holes in this personal opinion theology and “private interpretation.”

One of many examples in this anti-biblical article is the following:

SDA2RC states:
(Rom 6:23 NASB) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Click to expand...
This is a verse used on www.adventistlibrary.org to support the belief in soul sleep.
Click to expand...
The fact of the matter is that we, nor this web site uses Rom.6:23 to “prove” soul sleep." This text is simply used to say that “the wages of sin is death;” so we had better know the truth about “soul sleep.” You can view the entire article here, and see for yourself; this is not how they have used Rom.6:23. Rom.6:23 was given, along with a number of other texts to show evidence for their preamble paragraph at the top of this article where they stated several Bible facts.

SDA2RC continues to mis-state and exaggerate Adventist beliefs in this article.
 
I wanted to flag a worthwhile article in the May/June 2007 edition of This Rock magazine. It is called “How Do We Know It`s The True Church? Twelve Things To Look For.” While not related to Adventism, it highlights some of what are non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters are missing.

I will post the article online once it is available. But for those of you who subscribe to the magazine, let me know if you would like to discuss it on a new thread. For those of you who do not subscribe, it is a worthwhile magazine. (I am on a limited budget and it is one of two magazines I subscribe to. It is well worth the money).

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Has anyone heard of the following website?

apologeticsindex.org/s18.html

I disagree with a lot of stuff on the site. (It is not from a Catholic perspective). The Catholic Church recognizes that the SDA Church is not a cult, whereas this website seems to classify SDA as a “Christian cult.” However, I am posting it because it discusses Progressive Adventism and some of the internal conflict and debate going on within the SDA church today.

Has anyone run across this site before? It has links to online books including:
Cast Out For The Cross Of Christ by Albion Ballenger
Sabbatarianism Re-Examined Robert D. Brinsmead, Editor
Seventh-day Adventism and the Writings of Ellen G. White by J. Mark Martin (see the “7th Day Adventism - What You Should Know” site.
Seventh-day Adventism Renounced by D.M. Canright

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Protestant101 said:
Yes, it is “interesting.” However, there are literally dozens of holes in this personal opinion theology and “private interpretation.” One of many examples in this anti-biblical article is the following:

The fact of the matter is that we, nor this web site uses Rom.6:23 to “prove” soul sleep." This text is simply used to say that “the wages of sin is death;” so we had better know the truth about “soul sleep.” You can view the entire article here, and see for yourself; this is not how they have used Rom.6:23. Rom.6:23 was given, along with a number of other texts to show evidence for their preamble paragraph at the top of this article where they stated several Bible facts.

SDA2RC continues to mis-state and exaggerate Adventist beliefs in this article.
Click to expand...
All,
Here is the official quote from the SDA Website’s fundamental beliefs (#26) regarding soul sleep:" The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)" You can view the official page here.
You will notice that the first verse quoted by the General Conference of Adventists to support their position as given in the fundamental beliefs, is Romans 6:23. I hardly think it is an exaggeration to include this verse as a verse used to support the SDA concept of death, since the General Conference its self does this. This verse is a foundational part of nearly all presentations of the Adventist doctrine of the Dead. Further, I have here a set of Bible Studies purchased from the official Adventist Bookstore, ABC, which also uses the verse in its study on the state of the dead. It also important to note that the page supplied by Protestant101 is NOT an official page of the Adventist Church.

Protestant101, if I have misrepresented the doctrine of soul sleep as taught by Adventists, please specifically tell me what I have stated regarding the belief that is not part of the Adventist Teaching. I will do my best to support what I have said from official sources, and if I cannot I will remove that section. Thanks!
 
Protestant101 said:
You are right Pedja

As much as Ratzlaf likes to make the lofty claims to fame; with inflated, unproven numbers, he actually is not all that convincing - even to some non-Adventists that I have talked with about him. I have all his books, and they have simply strengthened my faith and my Adventist beliefs. I believe that his questions and his objections have made/are making our Church stronger, not weaker; for it is driving people to their Bibles, and to the truth. Dale does all the uncouth things one would expect with a cult.
Click to expand...
As much as I found Ratzlaff’s theology unsatisfying as an Adventist (and even as a Catholic), his influence should not be underestimated. I forget the statistics (and believe me, statistics constitute conservative estimates of the influence of his theology), but the the writings of this one man have led thousands out of Adventism over the past decade, and were partly responsible for the theological shift of the Worldwide Church of God, which lost 70,000 members in the process.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top