Resources on Seventh-Day Adventism

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This sounds pretty anti-Catholic to me.
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"Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots . . . is further declared to be ‘that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Revelation 17:4–6, 18. …
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There are several things that we always need to remember:
  1. None of us wrote the Bible. The best we can do is to interpret it. Now if someone wishes to quibble and argue about the interpretation that’s up to them God will sort it all out at the last day.
  2. Just because the interepretation “sounded” anti-Catholic that doesn’t mean that it actually was. Note also that she is talking about “the principles of the Roman Catholic Church” note the people.
  3. The Bible clearly says: Revelation 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” That means that in the last days God’s people will be found in other denominations and they will be called out. That’s why we teach that to the people in the church.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
Try reading Steps to Christ
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or Desire of Ages – both are readily available online. Any alleged SDA literature that says what you said was not teaching what the church teaches. We never attack denomination or church. What we object to is particular teachings. That’s why we have pastors who will tell the congregation straight up that there are more Christians in other denominations than our own.

You have to be extremely wary of some anti-SDA websites for they will say things that are not so. There are also off-shoot groups that masquerade as SDA’s. I know of two web sites that have taken pages down when I have called them on their lies.

These are commonly held Adventists beliefs:
(a) the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon; (b) the pope is the Antichrist; (c) in the last days, Sunday worship will be “the mark of the beast”; (d) there is a future millennium in which the devil will roam the earth while Christians are with Christ in heaven; (e) the soul sleeps between death and resurrection; and (f) on the last day, after a limited period of punishment in hell, the wicked will be annihilated and cease to exist rather than be eternally damned.

I would say that a, b, and c are definitely anti-Catholic. By teaching the above, Adventists are attacking the Catholic Church.

D, E, and F are also unbiblical. But I recognize that discussion is best left to a different thread.
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a) We teach that Babylon in the book of Revelation is a system of beliefs and practices. It is NOT a people.
b) Again, it is not a person, it is the papacy–people may use sloppy English, however.
c) How can this be anti-Catholic? Look at all the Protestant denominations that keep Sunday as well.
d-f) There is no evidence that these are unbiblical and we appeal to the Bible for support.
I do agree that each website needs to be assessed for credibility.
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That is as it should be. And when you find that these web sites have misled you one some things that you have thoroughly checked doesn’t that arouse your suspicion ab’t other things that they say that you haven’t checked on? Some examples, some web sites will tell you that Ellen G. White was a millionaire. When she died was was found to be $20K in the hole. Now can you figure out that can make you a millionaire? Many others will tell you that she was a plagiarist. So far, after looking at 125 chapters, I have found one sentence. In his open letter to Prof. Jud Lake, Dale Ratzlaff has a footnote (#13) in which he claims that Rea “has found sources for almost every page of the Great Controversy, sometimes, every paragraph.” I have examined the web site that has posted his notes (ellenwhite.org/rea/gc (numbered1-24).htm) and I noted “having found sources for almost every page” why is it that he skips entire chapters: 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 20, 31, 33, 36, 38, 41? Do you get the idea? These people cannot be trusted to tell what the SDA church teaches or believes.
 
djconklin said:
There are several things that we always need to remember:
  1. None of us wrote the Bible. The best we can do is to interpret it. Now if someone wishes to quibble and argue about the interpretation that’s up to them God will sort it all out at the last day.
  2. Just because the interepretation “sounded” anti-Catholic that doesn’t mean that it actually was. Note also that she is talking about “the principles of the Roman Catholic Church” note the people.
  3. The Bible clearly says: Revelation 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” That means that in the last days God’s people will be found in other denominations and they will be called out. That’s why we teach that to the people in the church.
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Hello djcocklin, I see that your new to these forums, first I would like to welcome you to the forum. reading your posts, I see that you are defending seventh day adventism’s teaching’s on the end times, so I will assume your SDA, I am happy to see that there are more SDAs comming into these forums to test their knowledge they have learned from their church.

your first point was:

1) None of us wrote the Bible. The best we can do is to interpret it. Now if someone wishes to quibble and argue about the interpretation that’s up to them God will sort it all out at the last day.

I partly disagree, it is important that we read the bible for ourselves and understand the best we can. But is also important to let the Church guide our understanding, because it is the Teachings of the Church that comes from the teachings of the Apostles of Jesus. St Peter being our first Pope. I understand that the SDA also involves sola scripture in their doctrines, but we can all clearly see that it was sola scriptura that has divided christianity.

second :
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2) Just because the interepretation “sounded” anti-Catholic that doesn’t mean that it actually was. Note also that she is talking about “the principles of the Roman Catholic Church” note the people.*

Again I will have to disagree with you. I myself learned the teachings of the Revelation seminars the SDA holds, and they are indeed anti-catholic, Then the pastor would respond as " I’m not against catholic people just the system" I find it quite impressive how the SDA are very talented on sugar coding their inner prejudism of catholics and the catholic Church, it surely does take alot of skill and experience to down right degrade another religion with a smile on their face and protraying themselves as the most godly people on earth .but I am concern that the SDAs feel they need to express their negative opinion about my beloved Church after realizing I am Catholic. but back the the point, I believe they are anti catholic, because they relie on misrepresenting the History of the Church and giving innaccurate historical facts, their revelation seminar semmed to also be a History seminar, The SDA have been known to change their facts over and over, to where they believe the Pope’s hat bares the mark 666, where they believe this Pope Constantine changed the sabbath, to where Pope gregory changed the sabbath because of the miscalculation of the calender, oh soo much more.

the third :
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3) The Bible clearly says: Revelation 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” That means that in the last days God’s people will be found in other denominations and they will be called out. That’s why we teach that to the people in the church*

again, this is a typical verse the SDA quotes to protray that the Church is the anti christ. infact if you look at alot of other threads you will see this verse used tonz. but this verse can easily be taken out of context and any church can fall into this verse. for example I can say that the Protestant can fall into this verse, I can claim Protestantism has caused confusion, and confusion is a bondage we all fall into, we all know Satan is the author of Confusion and that protestantism is what caused division among christianity. so I can claim this verse is calling people out of protestantism. see it’s just that simple.
 
djconklin said:
a) We teach that Babylon in the book of Revelation is a system of beliefs and practices. It is NOT a people.
b) Again, it is not a person, it is the papacy–people may use sloppy English, however.
c) How can this be anti-Catholic? Look at all the Protestant denominations that keep Sunday as well.
d-f) There is no evidence that these are unbiblical and we appeal to the Bible for support.
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Again like I said, The Seventh Day Adventist Church, relies on innacurrate historical facts to prove that the papacy is evil, and then use scripture to make them look more evil, I can definitly see how an average joe could fall into this teachings of revelations. God must be really dissapointed in the misuse of revelations by the seventh day adventist church, revelations was never intended to point the finger at another relgion and say this relgion is evil.

Sunday Keeping is never a requirment of the Catholic Church, the early church fathers, asked us to keep sunday, if you may not know Church services are also held on saturday, their called Vigils.

Although I am aware of alot of protestants only having services on Sunday but I do not believe they are in sin, Christ freed us to have gatherings any day of the week
 
djconklin said:
That is as it should be. And when you find that these web sites have misled you one some things that you have thoroughly checked doesn’t that arouse your suspicion ab’t other things that they say that you haven’t checked on? Some examples, some web sites will tell you that Ellen G. White was a millionaire. When she died was was found to be $20K in the hole. Now can you figure out that can make you a millionaire? Many others will tell you that she was a plagiarist. So far, after looking at 125 chapters, I have found one sentence. In his open letter to Prof. Jud Lake, Dale Ratzlaff has a footnote (#13) in which he claims that Rea “has found sources for almost every page of the Great Controversy, sometimes, every paragraph.” I have examined the web site that has posted his notes (ellenwhite.org/rea/gc (numbered1-24).htm) and I noted “having found sources for almost every page” why is it that he skips entire chapters: 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 20, 31, 33, 36, 38, 41? Do you get the idea? These people cannot be trusted to tell what the SDA church teaches or believes.
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I indeed have heard of soo many anti- SDA sites, and infact I have also heard that the General Conference decided to take legal action against on these sites, I also know that there are tonz and tonz of anti catholic sites, but I also noticed that most of the anti- sda sites are created by former seventh day adventists, alot of them which had a important position in their former sda church, so it’s really something to think about. but of the anti catholics I see are about about how the pope’s hat resembles a fish which were not created by former catholics.
 
I’ll respond piece by piece.
1) None of us wrote the Bible. The best we can do is to interpret it. Now if someone wishes to quibble and argue about the interpretation that’s up to them God will sort it all out at the last day.
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I partly disagree, it is important that we read the bible for ourselves and understand the best we can. But is also important to let the Church guide our understanding, because it is the Teachings of the Church that comes from the teachings of the Apostles of Jesus. St Peter being our first Pope. I understand that the SDA also involves sola scripture in their doctrines, but we can all clearly see that it was sola scriptura that has divided christianity.
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  1. Well, in part, we do agree! As you said, “it is important that we read the bible for ourselves and understand the best we can.”
It was not “sola scriptura” that has divided Christianity. It was the false teachers each trying to set up their own “kingdom” under the guise of Christianity that has split us into denominations. In any case, God knows who in each are His true followers and in the last days He will call them out and to Himself.
 
2) Just because the interepretation “sounded” anti-Catholic that doesn’t mean that it actually was. Note also that she is talking about “the principles of the Roman Catholic Church” note the people.
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Again I will have to disagree with you. I myself learned the teachings of the Revelation seminars the SDA holds, and they are indeed anti-catholic,
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And he told you the way it is.
Then the pastor would respond as " I’m not against catholic people just the system"
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Again correct.
I find it quite impressive how the SDA are very talented on sugar coding their inner prejudism of catholics and the catholic Church, it surely does take alot of skill and experience to down right degrade another religion with a smile on their face and protraying themselves as the most godly people on earth .
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I do not appreciate the loaded and false terminology. Just because others have done it that does not mean that you have the right to dish it right back out–two wrongs don’t make a right. Don’t you think that was tad hypocritical? And note, that I didn’t do it to you–you did it to me first.
 
djconklin said:
I’ll respond piece by piece.
  1. Well, in part, we do agree! As you said, “it is important that we read the bible for ourselves and understand the best we can.”
It was not “sola scriptura” that has divided Christianity. It was the false teachers each trying to set up their own “kingdom” under the guise of Christianity that has split us into denominations. In any case, God knows who in each are His true followers and in the last days He will call them out and to Himself.
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now this was also a thought that came to my mind when I was learning about this. what makes a false teacher a true false teacher?. someone who teaches false doctrine of course, but out of all of these deniminations, alot of these denominations were not purposly created to so they can confuse the people, so that they can send these group of believers the other way, alot of these false teachers you blame on were actually sincere people who thought they were on the right track who were practicing sola scriptura.
 
djconklin said:
And he told you the way it is.

Again correct.

I do not appreciate the loaded and false terminology. Just because others have done it that does not mean that you have the right to dish it right back out–two wrongs don’t make a right. Don’t you think that was tad hypocritical? And note, that I didn’t do it to you–you did it to me first.
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well I was not claiming you yourself have practice this false character on me, but I was just expressing out impressed I was how a person is capable of doing that, alot of them which I always find in a Seventh Day Adventist Church.

although a pastor may say " i do not have anything against catholics just the system", he clearly contradicts himself by preaching about the “mythicals” evils of the catholic church, which people happen to be apart of
 
alot of these denominations were not purposly created to so they can confuse the people, so that they can send these group of believers the other way, alot of these false teachers you blame on were actually sincere people who thought they were on the right track who were practicing sola scriptura.
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Only God knows for sure. It is not for us to judge. Simply go by what God said. Jesus promised He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us and that it would not contradict what has already been written.
 
impressed I was how a person is capable of doing that, alot of them which I always find in a Seventh Day Adventist Church.
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“always find”?!? I’ve been an SDA for over 40 years and have never heard of some of things you have said. Like this one: “to where they believe the Pope’s hat bares the mark 666”. Please double-check your source(s).
although a pastor may say " i do not have anything against catholics just the system", he clearly contradicts himself by preaching about the “mythicals” evils of the catholic church, which people happen to be apart of
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You are assuming that a church is a single entitiy and a monolithic whole. We know that that there are people claim to be SDA’s but who don’t practice what they ahve been told. Likewise, we also know that there are Catholics who disagree with the Pope. Therefore there is NO contradiction when we make a distinction between people and system. The Bible also agrees with that concept: Revelation 18:4 “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” That is, Babylon and the people within it are two seperate entities–they are not one and the same.
 
djconklin said:
Only God knows for sure. It is not for us to judge. Simply go by what God said. Jesus promised He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us and that it would not contradict what has already been written.
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Can you perhaps give us a reference in the bible to support this. That would be nice to have on hand.

Do you mean that Jesus would not contradict the Old Testament since Jesus wasn’t around to read the new?
 
amills said:
Can you perhaps give us a reference in the bible to support this. That would be nice to have on hand.

Do you mean that Jesus would not contradict the Old Testament since Jesus wasn’t around to read the new?
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Here’s the closest texts I can find at the moment (I don’t memorize Scripture that way):

John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

John 15:26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:”

John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
 
see it’s just that simple.
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It isn’t just that simple. There’s other verses that relate to it. The whole must be considered. It’s because the whole isn’t considered that we have all the different denominations today.
 
Although I am aware of alot of protestants only having services on Sunday but I do not believe they are in sin, Christ freed us to have gatherings any day of the week
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Lots of people think the same; unfortunately, it is not biblical.
 
djconklin said:
Only God knows for sure. It is not for us to judge. Simply go by what God said. Jesus promised He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us and that it would not contradict what has already been written.
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But what we do know for sure, is that Christ established a church when he has left Peter in Charge which is what it now known as The Catholic Church which is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” -St Ignatius of Anitoch
 
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