Resources - Qu'ran as a linguisitc miracle?

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I find it highly suspicious that God, when He chooses to speak, only speaks the Arabic of the 7th century – that’s not very accommodating of Him, is it? And I find it rather imperious that there are Muslims who insist that this is so.

Exactly! This is one of the claims which seems to be contradictory to what one would expect of an omnipotent God. Acts 2! Gods word is understood in any and all languages and frequently by any other means of his choosing. If he wills it!
I believe in the omnipotence of God under the definition that it is the ability to do anything that is possible, but not the ability to do that which is impossible. Can God give someone leave to sin freely and not be classed as sinning because he’s been given a special station in life for no apparent reason? Quran 33:50. In St Pauls letter to Timothy he confesses that God in calling him (the foremost of sinners) to be his servant has demonstrated his great love, patience and forgiveness. If that’s what Quran 33:50 and the many others are attempting then it could hardly be considered a linguistic miracle.

Muslims will try anything to defend their belief in the inerrancy of the Quran. So I am not surprised that they will argue that Arabic version is a linguistic miracle that cannot be expressed in any other.
 
I find it highly suspicious that God, when He chooses to speak, only speaks the Arabic of the 7th century – that’s not very accommodating of Him, is it? And I find it rather imperious that there are Muslims who insist that this is so.
Exactly! This is one of the claims which seems to be contradictory to what one would expect of an omnipotent God. Acts 2! Gods word is understood in any and all languages and frequently by any other means of his choosing. If he wills it!
I believe in the omnipotence of God under the definition that it is the ability to do anything that is possible, but not the ability to do that which is impossible. Can God give someone leave to sin freely and not be classed as sinning because he’s been given a special station in life for no apparent reason? Quran 33:50. In St Pauls letter to Timothy he confesses that God in calling him (the foremost of sinners) to be his servant has demonstrated his great love, patience and forgiveness. If that’s what Quran 33:50 and the many others are attempting then it could hardly be considered a linguistic miracle.

Muslims will try anything to defend their belief in the inerrancy of the Quran. So I am not surprised that they will argue that Arabic version is a linguistic miracle that cannot be expressed in any other.
 
Historically, the Middle-Eastern peoples considered the art of writing as a gift from the divine, which is understandable in a time when a very small portion of the population was literate. The Egyptian god Thoth was the god of wisdom, magic and… writing. The mythological Book of Thoth was a book that supposedly contained spells to talk with animals and see the gods. An other Middle-Eastern people, the Jews consider their Torah holy and it needs to be read with a ‘Yad’. This belief in the power of the book as the ultimate source of truth is also reflected in the oath that people take when in court of becoming a public official.

The idea of ‘holy books’ and a divine or divinely inspired content is a very old idea and nothing new.
The idea of swearing an oath on the Bible, ‘to tell the truth’ (I should think) is more based on the command within to “not bear false witness.” So even though you may not be Christian or Jew it should still be considered that it is a valid persons promise not to break that law since it would or should apply to any religion or moral doctrine. It is definitely not a declaration of belief in the Bible. eg. if you swear to tell the truth but have stolen something then you haven’t broken the oath unless you are asked if you stole said item and denied it.
 
Historically, the Middle-Eastern peoples considered the art of writing as a gift from the divine, which is understandable in a time when a very small portion of the population was literate. The Egyptian god Thoth was the god of wisdom, magic and… writing. The mythological Book of Thoth was a book that supposedly contained spells to talk with animals and see the gods. An other Middle-Eastern people, the Jews consider their Torah holy and it needs to be read with a ‘Yad’. This belief in the power of the book as the ultimate source of truth is also reflected in the oath that people take when in court of becoming a public official.

The idea of ‘holy books’ and a divine or divinely inspired content is a very old idea and nothing new.
The idea of swearing an oath on the Bible, ‘to tell the truth’ (I should think) is more based on the law within to “not bear false witness.” So even though you may not be Christian or Jew it should still be considered that it is a valid persons promise not to break that law since it would or should apply to any religion or moral doctrine.
“So help me god” is apparently optional in some cases. But then, come on, everyone has a god.
In any event it is definitely not a declaration of belief in the Bible. eg. if you swear to tell the truth but have stolen something then you haven’t broken the oath unless you are asked if you stole said item and denied it.
 
Well it’s interesting … The languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and later Arabic are related and sister languages.

We can attempt to translate them of course into other languages… George Lamsa was a native speaker of Aramaic and I felt his work in appreciating Aramaic was commendable.
 
To be a linguistic miracle it should contain no parts that can be read in a way which is not intended. The love of the kafir should show in all parts not just some. Is it more specific in Arabic?
Regarding misinterpretation of a text, the fault would lie with the reader or translator, I should think. I don’t remember anything about love for kaffirs,except putting them on what they believe to be the right path. This link gives the different interpretation of the meaning of “kaffir”:

islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1143/what-is-the-definition-of-a-kaffir

Here are some learned opinions:

*Kuffar or kafir means “the one who covers on something”. It comes from the Arabic root كفر. If we get deep into its etymology, it was used for the meaning of “a farmer covering on the seeds in the field by scattering soil on them”.

Kafir is someone who covers the truth even though there was satisfying evidence…in his/her conscience, and goes to the path of his own desires.

Every messenger of Allah (rasulullah) brings a receipt of salvation with clear evidence to their societies. But those receipts are always very hard for people to accept, because they are always against their desires. So, only little of them accept the truth, and the rest of them cover the truth; those cover-ers are called kafir.

…a kaffir can be anyone who rejects truth, even if they are from the people of the book, it would not be correct to call someone a kaffir if they have no knowledge of islam. This would be equivalent to calling the prophets parents kaffireen, which we know is not true. If someone never knew about islam, they are not rejecting truth, they simply have no knowledge of islam, and they will not be punished.

A kaffir is someone who disbelieves even when they know the truth.
*
 
Zamyrabyrd writes: “Nothing, or hardly anything in literature or art comes out of a void and one could make the case for religion, too. The ground is prepared in some way, the history of Christian feasts such as Christmas and Easter as a case in point. As for say the plays of Shakespeare, he improved on what was already there, existing stories and actual language.”

I think that this does a disservice to Shakespeare. His collected works present a vocabulary of 27,800 different words (see: passthrough.fw-notify.net/download/907281/http://www1.cmc.edu/pages/faculty/welliott/Shakespeare%20Vocabulary%20Chapter%20911.pdf) for details). He used more words than the King James Version of the Bible and the works of John Milton (Paradise Lost and Found) combined. He was a lexical inventor who (according to some scholars) had at least 1700 unique words attributed to his pen. His literary phrasing was also unique, deeply striking, memorable and poetic.He was a giant of the English Language. Yes, he borrowed from his predecessors, but his contribution was undoubtedly unique.

If the Qu’ran’s beauty is not translatable in English, the fault probably lies in the hands of the translators. It is not an impossibility to transfer meaning from one language to another. I’ve seen, for instance, beautiful translations in English of poetry from China’s Tang Dynasty period (618-907 AD) – and this without any cognates or loan words from the Mandarin. Similarly, ancient Hebrew and English are very different, yet I have read wonderful English translations that capture the intent, meaning and “meat” of the original (Robert Alter’s Five Books of Moses is an exemplary example). Perhaps a good English translation of the Qu’ran exists – I’ve just never read one. I find it highly suspicious that God, when He chooses to speak, only speaks the Arabic of the 7th century – that’s not very accommodating of Him, is it? And I find it rather imperious that there are Muslims who insist that this is so.
On the contrary, Shakespeare was the first person I thought of when making a case for divinely inspired literature. I also wrote that perhaps part of the difficulty in translating the Quran is the cultural gap. Though there are obvious similarities with regard to belief and history, there is definitely a bifurcation from the kind of rationality one expects from those writers in the New Testament steeped in a Greek dominated intellectual environment. The anecdotal aspect having to do with stories of the extended tribe as it were, is very different in spirit even from the treatment of family ties in the Old Testament. Though it is important to record who begat whom in order to trace the Davidian line to Jesus, Islam places more emphasis on extended family members of the Prophet, for instance.

There seems to be a missing link of the linguistic development of Arabic when suddenly as from the head of Jove this great work of literature appears in the 7th Century with a high grammatical complexity. Someone here made reference to the religious Syriac corpus that may be part of the connection. Scholars obviously would know more about this than the average lay person.
 
Regarding misinterpretation of a text, the fault would lie with the reader or translator,
Please refer to Acts 2. But if not then surely there are translators with sufficient skill to write a translation for those of us who have poor reading skills? Especially without inference that an English person would see as a horrible contradiction. And evil minded Muslims who obviously are not Arabic speaking use to commit atrocities.
In Christianity to put a person ‘on the right path’ or to attempt to do so is a requirement to demonstrate love of neighbor. To evangelize in order to be Christs emissary. To be as him for the salvation of others. To love God by the desire to bring others to him. In the stations of the cross “my other self”! If Muslims do not love the kafir (unbeliever) then they are not of the God of love.

[Every messenger of Allah (rasulullah) brings a receipt of salvation with clear evidence to their societies. But those receipts are always very hard for people to accept, because they are always against their desires. So, only little of them accept the truth, and the rest of them cover the truth; those cover-ers are called kafir.]

This paragraph seems to be describing ‘sinners’. In Christianity, Jesus came to save sinners not to condemn. Since we are all sinners then in some way all must be kafir. Note though the frequent use of ‘unbeliever’ in the English Quran with references to condemnation. Also note that by the parable of the good Samaritan being ignorant of true doctrine does not result in condemnation. Personally I believe what the Church teaches vis a vis that Muslims and others worship the one true God but in a broken imperfect way. John 10:16 and there are other sheep not of this fold…

[A kaffir is someone who disbelieves even when they know the truth.]

I would say that that must be badly translated. I should think that one can fail to act on truth. But if you “know the truth” how can you disbelieve it. As a Christian my truth is Jesus Christ. I can fail him but I cannot deny his truth having known him. I suppose a Muslims truth is the Quran or Mohammad or whatever. So a better translation would be that a kafir is a disbeliever of Islamic doctrine. This would equate to heretic. However that’s not a word I’m fond of because I think God gave us a mind and calls us to seek truth and understanding of Christs words. To know God through our reason and perception rather than to just parrot something we have been taught.*
 
[A kaffir is someone who disbelieves even when they know the truth.]
I would say that that must be badly translated. I should think that one can fail to act on truth. But if you “know the truth” how can you disbelieve it. As a Christian my truth is Jesus Christ. I can fail him but I cannot deny his truth having known him. I suppose a Muslims truth is the Quran or Mohammad or whatever. So a better translation would be that a kafir is a disbeliever of Islamic doctrine. This would equate to heretic. However that’s not a word I’m fond of because I think God gave us a mind and calls us to seek truth and understanding of Christs words. To know God through our reason and perception rather than to just parrot something we have been taught.
I agree with you and also tenets of religions that preach compassion for all living beings.
What we have here is a kind of circular reasoning. In this surah (the original is on the site):
  • “Those who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture (Book) and the polytheists were not to be parted [from misbelief] until there came to them clear evidence.”*
I don’t know what the meaning of “clear evidence” is either, if they mean miracle or something else. This is only another instance showing how difficult it is to render this work into another language. But in its original form, it is a quite impressive literary feat.
 
Zamyrabyrd, you write: “I don’t know what the meaning of “clear evidence” is either, if they mean miracle or something else. This is only another instance showing how difficult it is to render this work into another language. But in its original form, it is a quite impressive literary feat.”

I do not doubt for a second that the Islamic Holy Book is an impressive literary feat. I also understand that it is impressive in oral recitation; it is supposedly, very lovely to hear in the spoken word. Tradition has it that Muhammad was illiterate and that he would recite his revelation to others who would then memorize it for further transmission. Later (and fairly early on in its history as a work of sacred literature) Muhammad and others would recite this revelation to scribes who wrote the supernatural language down word for word. This, apparently is how the holy book was codified.

The problems that we face as literate English speaking people is that the Qu’ran is transmitted to us without sufficient exegesis. That is why terms such as “clear evidence” are so troublesome – they are not defined. My suspicion is that there may be many layers of meaning behind the phrase “clear evidence” that would need to be explored before we could find a common ground for an acceptable understanding of the term. Similarly, the phrase “receipt of salvation” is obscure in English, as is the definition of the term “kaffir.” This problem comes up again and again in English translations of the Qu’ran. We cannot discuss it as a “linguistic miracle” unless we can come to an agreement on the terms used in the book.
 
The problems that we face as literate English speaking people is that the Qu’ran is transmitted to us without sufficient exegesis. That is why terms such as “clear evidence” are so troublesome – they are not defined. My suspicion is that there may be many layers of meaning behind the phrase “clear evidence” that would need to be explored before we could find a common ground for an acceptable understanding of the term.

Similarly, the phrase “receipt of salvation” is obscure in English, as is the definition of the term “kaffir.” This problem comes up again and again in English translations of the Qu’ran. We cannot discuss it as a “linguistic miracle” unless we can come to an agreement on the terms used in the book.
Exactly, it could be that the “evidence” is the Quran itself. In any case, the thinking is really different. In the Western religious traditions, would not accept a newer version of the OT and NT that changes the story line and even some of its characters as the last revelation. It would be suspect at best.

What I got from some explanations about kaffir, they were polytheists supposedly who knew in their hearts they were wrong but didn’t want to give up their many gods. One astute teacher applied it to today, saying that people worship the gods of money and self-interest, instead of God. This is a nice way to apply the principle.
 
In the Western religious traditions, would not accept a newer version of the OT and NT that changes the story line and even some of its characters as the last revelation. It would be suspect at best.
That is true and no doubt why in Catholic Bibles the Catholic interpretation is written as footnotes leaving the original text as is. I have wondered why Muslim scholars have not done something similar. Catholic priests are required to be obedient to the Catholic teaching. If the Quran were written with footnotes with the emphasis on it being the religion of peace and its adherents being required to accept those interpretations it could do a lot more for interfaith understanding and acceptance.
 
I am doing something of a study of Islamic theology and spirituality. There are many claims by Muslims as to the linguistic miracle of the Quran as a whole. I am trying to make an informed view on the authenticity of these claims. Does anyone know of any good web resources where these claims are examined. Really I would like non biased resources, ideally not Muslim sites that obviously voice a pro view or Christian sites which do the opposite. Anyone know of any, or has anyone ever studied this at any length.
I don’t know if this is what you are looking for?
3lotus.com/en/Islam/Quran-Not-a-Miracle.htm

There are a number of Islam-critical websites around. Some of them are rather offensive but many are scholastic in nature, if from a Christian scholastic point of view. But not many evaluate from a linguistic miracle point of view as such a criterion for authenticity of a scripture probably does not even begin to be considered by most Christians to start off with.
 
‘Answering Islam’ answering-islam.org/authors/clarke/hug_muslim.html is a very good resource too. Especially since it quotes Islamic sources for its arguments. But like the one Jimkhong gave it doesn’t favor islam at all. But then to accept that the Quran is a miracle in its entirety is not something that any Christian can agree to and still be Christian. The word miracle implies from God since only God can perform miracles. Therefore if the Quran were any kind of miracle it would mean that the Gospels were not, since the Quran denies the Gospel truth.
 
What about the claims that the divine hand is shown in the text by the number of times certain words are used, for example the words day and night both apparently appear 365 times, the word week 52 times, … Are these sort of phenomena found in other works of literature?
There are two recent posts that give web sites, and I’ll repeat one of them: answering-islam.org/authors/masihiyyen/numerical_miracles_309.html where the author goes into the details to refute these claims.

However, let’s look at the broader picture for a second. To answer one question, yes, similar numeralogical claims have been made about the Bible–I won’t give references, but they are easily found online. Books have been written about this. But all these claims have all been dismissed (quite properly!) as nonsense. And of course if you go to poetry, you have all sorts of playing around (intentionally) with words–for example, poems only containing words with certain letters, or using a certain number of words, etc. So if there are things like that in the Qur’an, they’re not unique. It’s common.

Second, most people have no real concept of probability. Youtube is awash with videos of seemingly “impossible” things. You turn enough cameras on for long enough, and they will capture all sorts of improbable stuff. Or take a look at coincidence in your own life. A lot of people take coincidences as “signs” or something mystical. They’re coincidences, nothing more. For example, when I have traveled to Europe, I invariably run into people I know. It’s gotten to the point where I actually expect to meet people in the most unlikely places. So if you are looking for, say, a certain phrase to occur x number of times, quite often it will–nothing mystical, just pure chance.

Third, these claims about the Qur’an are fallacious. It’s the “Texas Sharpshooter” fallacy. It works like this: a guy drives along and notices a barn with a bullseye drawn on it, and he sees a bunch of shots clustered together in the bullseye. “What a good shot that guy must have been!” he says to himself. But of course what the guy did was shoot a bunch of bullets, and then paint the bullseye afterwards so that the shots appeared in the bullseye. The same with the mathematical claims for the Qur’an. Count up enough types of things, and sure enough, you can paint yourself a bullseye. For example, look for the word “angel” or “day,” etc.–but of course if the numbers don’t add up, just keep counting other words until you find some that do! I personally have better things to do.

Fourth. It all depends on definitions. What is a “word”? If you know Arabic, you’ll immediately see there are a host of problems. Is a “word” the singular? Do you include plural forms? Do you include (for nouns) endings that designate “my,” “her,” “his,” etc.? Is “the book” (written as “one word” in Arabic) counted as “book” without the “the”? You can go on and on. I hope I have given enough examples so that you can see that counting becomes very subjective and very flexible. If something doesn’t fit one way, change the rules and it might fit the other way. And the same goes for the meaning of a word: there are several different words for “day,” for example. So which do you count?

As far as I know two of the biggest advocates of this numeralogical approach are Rashad Khalifa (see Wikipedia) and Shabir Ally. Rashad wrote a bunch of books on the subject and did a nice translation of the Qur’an into English. For Rashad, the number “19” was the key number. He’s generally considered beyond the pale of orthodox Islam, and most Muslims distance themselves from him. One of the suras didn’t fit neatly into his theory, so he solved the problem by simply saying certain verses weren’t authentic and shouldn’t count. In other words, if it didn’t fit his pattern, he MADE it fit! He was assassinated (or murdered, if you like) in 1990, in, of all places, Tucson, where he founded a mosque. Shabir Ally (see Youtube and Wikipedia) is a current advocate of numerology in the Qur’an, and in one youtube video credits the “mathematical miracles” for his faith in Islam.

No scholar of the Qur’an takes these claims seriously, and no one has bothered to take the time to refute them. Just like no scholar has tried to refute the claim that aliens built the Pyramids.

As for the broader claim (in the Qur’an itself) that Muhammad, when asked where his miracles were, answered that the Qur’an was his miracle, and there is a verse challenging anyone to write verses that are better. However, if you read the Qur’an (it honestly doesn’t matter if it’s in English, French, or Arabic), you will quickly see that it is a really mixed bag: there are very poetic passages (quite often mirroring similar ideas–and even phrases–in Christian writings); legalistic passages; repetition; and not a few passages that–to a non-Muslim–clearly were written just to make Muhammad’s life a bit easier. For example, several verses tell visitors to Muhammad’s tent not to come early and to leave right away after they’ve eaten. If this has religious meaning, it’s lost on me.
Leeds U. has a very good web site corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp that goes into each Arabic words, gives multiple translations of each verse in English, and also has an audio feature so you can hear the verse, as well as many more features.

And then of course there’s the whole issue of abrogation (Wikipedia…) where scholars throughout almost the entire history of Islam have claimed that certain verses were abrogated, or replaced, by other verses. The problem is there is no agreement on how many verses have been abrogated, or which ones…and if you look at the historical development of the idea, you can quickly see that as time went by more and more verses were put into the “abrogated” column. Most Muslims accept this idea, but some reject the idea entirely.
 
You will not get anything unbiased on this matter because it is subjective by nature.
 
‘Answering Islam’ is a very good resource too. Especially since it quotes Islamic sources for its arguments. But like the one Jimkhong gave it doesn’t favor islam at all. But then to accept that the Quran is a miracle in its entirety is not something that any Christian can agree to and still be Christian. The word miracle implies from God since only God can perform miracles. Therefore if the Quran were any kind of miracle it would mean that the Gospels were not, since the Quran denies the Gospel truth.
Yet there are verses in the Qur’an that in my view are complimentary to the Gospels… for example there is one that comes to mind… The annunciation of the Virgin Mary

*42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee; chosen thee above the women of all nations.
  1. “O Mary! worship thy Lord devoutly; prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down.”
  2. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Prophet!) by inspiration; thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary; nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
  3. Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
From Surih 3 The Family of Imran

Compare with the Gospel of Luke 1: 28 ----

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
 
I don’t think anyone is disputing that there are true verses or even good and elegant ones in the Quran. However Judaism and Christianity came first so therefore those verses were copied.
In 43 This is written as in the present tense of a command for future tense of Mary for unknown reasons being told to worship the Lord devoutly when she lived more than 6 centuries prior. Of course she would and did worship the Lord. This has very obviously been plagiarized from scripture. What other purpose would it have other than as a recital of the Gospels written by the apostles. Apart from this the discussion is about the Quran as a whole being a miracle, not parts of it. Of course there are parts that quote truth and if they are written elegantly in the Arabic then I don’t think there would be dispute about that. However they are not miracles.
 
Ultimately, it comes down to preference. Personally, I think Greek and Roman plays, speeches and literature are far superior to the Quran. They’re better written, wiser, more intelligent and more beautiful than the Qu’ran. The Greeks and Romans were centuries ahead of the rest of Europe and of the Arabs.
Well said. I agree in part, though I have other favorites. I have long listened to Quranic recitation, and can recite some surahs from memory. Those are very beautiful, although others are a bit prosy and plain. I have also listened to Hindu recitations and the chanting of several religions. My favorites are a few of the surahs, a few Hindu chants, a few European cultural song types, and some other things. Beauty has been spread out among all languages. The degree of beauty is more dependent on the Poet than on the Language. 🙂
 
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