respect for atheists

[MacQ]

If people believe abortion, suicide and euthanasia are not evil we cannot possibly respect their beliefs.

That’s true…but what does it have to do with atheists?
Do you suppose they all believe in those things? That they can’t possibly have ethical or moral standards?
I think you’re making a big leap there.

 

[MacQ]

They don’t.
Atheists think that believing in God is the same as having a lucky rabbit’s foot or believing in the tooth fairy, so basically they think believers are stupid. They often don’t mind ridiculing believers in a public way, like at school or the work place. Where do you think bullies come from? It is Christians who are taught to love their neighbor, show mercy. This point is important: just because we will disagree with someone does not mean we hate them. Christians are always accused of hating when it’s the finger pointer. When an atheist says they are not respected because they think abortion is a woman’s right, they are totally blind to the fact that babies are human beings taken to be slaughtered. What can you possibly say to pierce that dark heart, that cannot see the human person in the womb? Only God can. Lord have mercy on us.

You might want to consider that not all atheists are baby killers, and they don’t all have dark hearts.
Bigotry is painting everyone of a group with the same brush (and misconceptions).

 

[Flagstone]

I reckon that there are many atheists who are charitable, kind, ethical and moral people who don’t ascribe to those things.

You reckon rightly.

 

[MacQ]

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

Yes.
I would urge folks here to read what the documents of Vatican II had to say about atheists and how we should treat them (probably the one one the Church and the world)

 

[Joe_5859]

I agree with the sentiment. Though there’s a nuance that comes to mind. In some cases if I were to treat people the same way I would want to be treated I might raise offense, and a lot of it. There’s a variation of the golden rule that I her referred to as “The Platinum Rule” centered on treating people the way they want to be treated. The challenge with applying this rule is that it requires an understanding of the other person’s potential responses and feelings to certain treatments. This is possibly more critical for interactions with people with different cultural backgrounds.

The “Platinum Rule”? Interesting. I never heard that variation before.

I heard the rule as, “Do unto others as if they were writing your biography.”

So that means we should constantly tell people how wonderful we are?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Yes.
I would urge folks here to read what the documents of Vatican II had to say about atheists and how we should treat them (probably the one one the Church and the world)

Can you cite the relevant passage for us or give the link to the relevant passage?

Thank you.

 

[MacQ]

Can you cite the relevant passage for us or give the link to the relevant passage?

Thank you.

See Gaudium et Spes 19-21

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html

Also Lumen Gentium 14-16 (refers to “those who have not arrived at an express recognition of God” )

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[Aloysium]

Regardless of the beliefs of others, we participate in God’s Church which “serves as a leaven and as a kind of soul for human society as it is to be renewed in Christ and transformed into God’s family.” (Gaudium et Spes)

 

[tonyrey]

If people believe abortion, suicide and euthanasia are not evil we cannot possibly respect their beliefs.

Non sequitur. The issue is:

He says that non-believers have to respect the believers, for their choices.

This is clearly false because then we would be accomplices due to our approval and passivity.

 

[MacQ]

Non sequitur. The issue is:
This is clearly false because then we would be accomplices due to our approval and passivity.

Sorry. I thought you were implying that atheists believe in abortion and euthanasia.

So, this issue is respecting others beliefs then.
Well, I think there’s a difference between respecting people and respecting their beliefs (or their actions).
The documents of Vatican II (and other catholic doctrine, including scripture) tell us to respect the dignity of all persons.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

So, this issue is respecting others beliefs then.
Well, I think there’s a difference between respecting people and respecting their beliefs (or their actions).

I agree. Referring back to the OP:

He says that we don’t respect non-believers for their choices, because we condemn the things they do which we see as ‘wrong’, that they don’t.

I don’t necessarily equate the condemnation with disrespect. Though condemnation could be delivered in a manner that is disrespectful. This may be all be a matter of how a message communicated.

 

[MacQ]

I agree. Referring back to the OP:

I don’t necessarily equate the condemnation with disrespect. Though condemnation could be delivered in a manner that is disrespectful. This may be all be a matter of how a message communicated.

Quite so.

I would add that not all “atheists” are alike.

I can understand…even feel some compassion for… a person who simply doesn’t believe there’s a God, but leaves the rest of us to our beliefs.

I’m not so patient with the rabid atheist who wants to get in my face and tell me I believe in magic fairies in the sky, or some similar inanity. I reckon that one has a bigger problem than atheism. It’s his hostility and hate I deplore and reject. Not his atheism.

By the same token, we should refrain from that same kind of condemnation that is an “attack” or a pious judgement…for those are after all, the flip side of the hostile atheist coin.
We should treat them as we would have them treat us.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

See Gaudium et Spes 19-21

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html

Also Lumen Gentium 14-16 (refers to “those who have not arrived at an express recognition of God” )

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Thank you so much for citing those sources. Hopefully some atheists along with the Catholics here will check them out.

I especially liked this remark from Lumen Gentium.

“Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.”