Respect for Clergy

[Neil_Anthony]

One thing I’ve noticed with some older catholics brought up before Vatican II is how much respect they had for the clergy. It can be almost to the point of seeming like going overboard and worshiping them. Whereas the post-Vatican II church I grew up in tried to emphasize that the clergy are friendly and down to earth and one of us. Perhaps this is more of a French Canadian issue, since in some senses Quebec was still ‘stuck’ in a pre-french-revolution culture until the 1960’s.

For example, according to some older catholics I’ve spoken to, the idea of a priest abusing his role and hurting children was simply inconceivable and unspeakable ‘back then’, which is partly why these things got covered up. That was terrible. It’s also hard to even imagine, a world where priests were looked up to that much, when today we seem ready to accuse priests and even bishops and the popes of error when they say things we disagree with.

Sometimes when I read the threads on here it seems like this near-veneration for the clergy isn’t present in today’s Traditional Catholics. Is that the case? Or is it still there for the ‘good priests’ who say the TLM masses and believe in the traditional catholic teachings?

 

[Lhhs]

, the idea of a priest abusing his role and hurting children was simply inconceivable and unspeakable ‘back then’, which is partly why these things got covered up. That was terribleQUOTE]

I don’t think it was just priests.
It was also doctors, lawyers, teachers, and others in a more “respectable” position

 

[MrS]

One thing I’ve noticed with some older catholics brought up before Vatican II is how much respect they had for the clergy.

Sometimes when I read the threads on here it seems like this near-veneration for the clergy isn’t present in today’s Traditional Catholics. Is that the case? Or is it still there for the ‘good priests’ who say the TLM masses and believe in the traditional catholic teachings?

I would hope that respect is given to any priest… even the ones we tend to “dislike”.

But the absence of the need for respect is a reality. From both sides. A few times I have asked a couple different priests who were about to leave my home for a blessing first. There was almost a look of suprise on his face… like he did not get asked for that very often.

Or when I moderate the high school classes. If I suspect that the pastor may drop in, I remind the class that when he does, they should stand up and acknowledge his presence… perhaps even with a “…good evening Father…”

Remember first that their hands are consecrated to do what we cannot.

No Priests, no Eucharist. No Eucharist, no Church.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I’ve had the same thoughts while reading some of the threads on here.

I’ve decided to sent a Father’s Day card to all the priests at the churches where I attend Mass. I feel bad that they’re probably neglected and somewhat abused by the laity, who seem to forget how hard priests work for us.

 

[Freshman88]

Quebec is one of the saddest provinces to be living in. Nothing hurts me more then to be walking through this city and see Churches converted into apartment buildings and other Churches simply locked up. It seems there’s a closed Church on every block.

Having that kind of respect for the clergy is a good thing. They are holy men with a very special calling.

 

[latinmasslover]

Sometimes when I read the threads on here it seems like this near-veneration for the clergy isn’t present in today’s Traditional Catholics. Is that the case? Or is it still there for the ‘good priests’ who say the TLM masses and believe in the traditional catholic teachings?

A priest is a priest and is to be treated with all respect due to an alter Christus. Now, this is easier to do with good priests (whether the say the TLM or NO) than with the not-so-good priests, but that doesn’t change the truth of the matter.

Traditional Catholics are sinners too, and we make mistakes like anybody else. Point it out when you see it happening. It’s often hard to separate the sinner from the sin, especially when the particular sinner is one who should know better. Being a perfectionist, this is a major struggle for me.

 

[latinmasslover]

I’ve had the same thoughts while reading some of the threads on here.

I’ve decided to sent a Father’s Day card to all the priests at the churches where I attend Mass. I feel bad that they’re probably neglected and somewhat abused by the laity, who seem to forget how hard priests work for us.

Excellent idea, I always do that for my confessor/director. “Happy Father’s Day…Happy Birthday Father…Merry Christmas Father…”

 

[Yerusalyim]

A priest is a priest and is to be treated with all respect due to an alter Christus. Now, this is easier to do with good priests (whether the say the TLM or NO) than with the not-so-good priests, but that doesn’t change the truth of the matter.

I think I disagree to a point…a priest is a priest and should be treated with all respect due a priest. However, the priest is only serving “IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST” during the Eucharist. I worship Christ, I will not worship a priest and will challenge a priest when they are wrong. I will also stand when a priest enters or exits the room.

 

[latinmasslover]

I think I disagree to a point…a priest is a priest and should be treated with all respect due a priest. However, the priest is only serving “IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST” during the Eucharist. I worship Christ, I will not worship a priest and will challenge a priest when they are wrong. I will also stand when a priest enters or exits the room.

I didn’t mean to imply that we worship him, or let error be taught without addressing it with him and, if necessary, the bishop. But I’m sure you know that about me from my other posts.

 

[otjm]

It might help to remember that prior to World War 2, there were far fewer colleges, no such thing as junior colleges, and many people were lucky to have 12 years of schooling - that is, a high school degree.

The changes to that started after WW2 with the GI bill, which gave money to those who had served, to attend further education.

The net result was that, for those born before WW2, the parish priest was often the most educated person that most of the people in the pews knew. In part, because of that, there was a general attitude that “Father knows best”, which extended far beyond any area of expertise that he might actually have.

The increase in knowledge base due to higher education, coupled with the continued downhill slope of secualrization has taken much of the aura of authority from priests in general.

 

[Cajetan]

I think it’s important to distinguish between the office of the priest and the priest as human being. No matter how bad a priest is as human being, Catholics should always remember to have the upmost respect for the office of said priest. This entails treating priests with great respect because they are priests.

This does not mean that priests are immune from criticism – definitely not – but just that when we do criticize a priest for some failing of theirs we must do so because they are human beings. In other words, we must not confuse the office of the priest with the behavior of a priest. Even when we are criticizing a priest as human being, we must always maintain a high respect for the office of said priest.

For instance, politically, I have a tremendous respect for the office of the Prime Minister of Canada. When I refer to Stephen Harper, I say “Prime Minister Stephen Harper,” and if I met him personally I would call him “Mr. Prime Minister.” Now, I have some serious misgivings about the personal behavior (enacted policies) of Prime Minister Harper, but if I were to criticize the man to his face over them I would still call him “Mr. Prime Minister,” and stand whenever he entered a room, etc., purely out of respect for his office. He won this kind of respect when he was elected by the Canadian people. Similarly, a priest wins this kind of respect when he is ordained.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

I think it’s important to distinguish between the office of the priest and the priest as human being. No matter how bad a priest is as human being, Catholics should always remember to have the upmost respect for the office of said priest. This entails treating priests with great respect because they are priests.

Your entire post reflects my thinking, as well.

In addition, where an individual priests may bring upon himself disgrace, he cannot bring it upon the office of priest - something instituted by Christ himself.

In many traditional parishes, and sometimes on EWTN it can be seen as well, in their Masses, some individuals bow as the priest passes.

As one who picked up this practice shortly after I began experiencing highly reverent Masses at Assumption Grotto, BEFORE I had ever seen it done, I can assure you I do not bow to the person of the Priest. When Mass starts, the priest puts on Christ and it is He to Whom I bow. In other words, it is not a humble sign of reverence for the person, but for Christ.

Regardless of the sins of the priest, or his level of imperfections, nothing changes the fact that when Mass tarts, the priest is there, in persona Christi.

Aside from that, I think that the behavior of some priests during holy Mass has distorted people’s understanding of this basic concept. For them, we must pray.

 

[panoikei]

This brings up an interesting question.
What about deacons? Deacons are also clergy even though not priests.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I am here in French Louisiana. We still have respect for our clergy. This is not to say that we do not have abuse cases…

I was an altar boy from 1959 through 1968. Our priests were role models. I cannot tell you how many 6 am Masses I served with Fr. B in the rectory before our parish church got built. I was in high school. Fr. B encouraged my interest in history. Fr. B. was a combat chaplain with the paratroopers who dropped into Normandy on DDay. He kept up with me when I went into the Navy in 1971.

That there were priests who abused their position, there is no doubt. But for every one that did, there are 10 or more who provided positive role models for us. As well as brothers and sisters too.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I find the comments interesting, but recuse myself from taking part in this discussion.
Deacon Ed B

 

[panoikei]

Deacon Ed,
You have my respect …
I give all deacons similar respect as priests. Walking sacramentals.

 

[Yerusalyim]

OK, that I can buy into, respect the office, and hopefully the person filling the office.

 

[Phemie]

One thing I’ve noticed with some older catholics brought up before Vatican II is how much respect they had for the clergy. It can be almost to the point of seeming like going overboard and worshiping them. Whereas the post-Vatican II church I grew up in tried to emphasize that the clergy are friendly and down to earth and one of us. Perhaps this is more of a French Canadian issue, since in some senses Quebec was still ‘stuck’ in a pre-french-revolution culture until the 1960’s.

I grew up in a French-Canadian household. People of authority were never to be questioned. Where priests were concerned the mantra in our home was “Never speak well of a priest in fear of inadvertently speaking ill of him.” IOW, priests are not a topic of discussion. My parents had really known very few pastors. The one for whom Dad was an altar server for 25+ years, who also celebrated their wedding and baptized my brothers and me, served our parish for 38 years. Mom only saw 3 pastors after him, Dad, saw 5. I’ve gone through that many priests in my 10 years in this parish.

Their attitude toward clergy changed in the 70s when abuse was reported in a neighboring parish and much to my shock I saw that they believed the reports. I’d always thought they’d reject any notion of misbehaviour on the part of priests.

There was almost the same reverence for teachers.

While you could discuss teachers, the mantras where they were concerned were: “The teacher is right, whether she/he’s right or wrong.” & “Don’t come home complaining that the teacher gave you the strap because you’ll get double at home.”

That resulted in my 8 year old brother being physically abused by his grade 3 teacher for an entire year without ever saying anything at home. He had to be carried to the car kicking and screaming every morning to get him to school but he never said why. He didn’t reveal what had happened until he was in his mid twenties and when Dad, appalled at what had happened, asked, “Why didn’t you ever tell us?” JL replied, “And what, get beaten twice as much every night?”

 

[dkoinzan]

I think that the position that Priests hold is awesome!!! My life would not as full today if not for the Mass and you simply can not have the Mass without the Priest!

Some Priests sadden me beyond belief! I find there are some that don’t respect their position as Priests and the hurt they cause is baffling. I believe that Priests are human and humans are sinful. We need to love them just as we are called to love all our neighbors. I cannot understand allowing a priest to continue in sinful behavior just because he is a priest. I have confronted many because I love them and want the very best for them. Love the sinner HATE the sin. It is not loving if we allow our neighbors to act sinful just because they are priests. I am not popular or well liked here on earth, but I am not aiming for earth. I want to get to heaven. We are all called to be servants and I am finding more and more priests who believe they should be served. It is not easy giving people the hard messages, but it is required of us if we want to make it to heaven. There is never a day I don’t pray for priests and religious. I am sure it is a hard job especially if you are doing it right, but the reward is AWESOME!!!

 

[kimaz]

I was taught to have respect for everyone, but especially for priests and deacons. After every Sunday Mass when I was little my mom made sure we said good morning to Father and shook his hand.

My parents are funny like that, teaching us kids to have respect.