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ipwnuathalo
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Bingo.
Respect for life includes welcoming migrants, Vatican officials say
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d97c
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“Render unto Caesar”…The “faith journey” (The Catholic Church )you mention allows for people who have varied differences in prudential judgment conclusions (who have to make the political decisions) to reach the decisions which are the best for the common good…the greatest good for the greatest number of people. The greatest good here is to secure the border. Feeling good and couching things in 'faith journey" does not help in the deep discussion on whether to allow more illegals in here or to have such little security as to ignore the overstay of their visas, like Mohammed Atta, who flew the plane into World Trade. The first thing we need to do is secure the border so it will be impossible to violate anymore laws. The current President does not want to secure the border, obvious from the reduction of same since he was crowned President. Tell you what…instead of just feeling good about spending taxpayers money to take care of criminals, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and write a big ole check to Obama for the illegals, or maybe to the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) which funds ACORN, or LaRaza. That way you can make your 'faith journey" real and “relevant.” Faith journey without a big ole check from you would be unfortunate.
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Nec5
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The slavery laws were constitutional at the time anyway. It was evil but there was plenty evil to go around. The African warlords enslaved their “undesirables”. Then the slaves were sold to the Spanish and other slave traders for loot. The traders sold the slaves here for profit, and the story moves from there. This isn’t related to your post at all, but it is odd that most school systems and people only focus on the immorality of the final sequence in slave trade.
Evil or not, a nation has a right to determine whom is allowed past its borders. It’s similar to your home. If your house is unlocked and poorly secured, that does not give people the right to enter it without permission. The crime and immorality is theirs.
What do you propose as a true immigration law? I’m honestly interested. My solution would be rigid controls of the border and a certain amount of monitored immigrants allowed into the country per year based on assimilation and need of our country. An open door policy and amnesty are a body blow followed by a left hook to the face of every legal immigrant that went through the brutally tough process currently in place.
Perhaps the Vatican should cast wide its doors and choose not to discriminate about whom is allowed to live there?
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estesbob
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We are bound to treat everyone humanely. The Church teaches countries have the right to secure their borders against illegal immigration. What you are doing , it appears, is trying to superimpose your politcal voews on the tecahings of the Church. You gratuitous shot at those who fight to proect the most vulnerable among us does nothing to advance the discussion other than further illuminate your political agenda.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm#2241
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dbeers
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We ARE fortunate to have the Pope and the Holy See to guide us. But if you are saying that the Church is demanding that all countries remove their borders and allow unrestricted access throughout the world you are simply wrong. The discussion is on humanly treating anyone who is in our country and making sure there are as few as possible that are here illegally. The Church has NOT demanded an open border policy because the results are impossible for any nation to sustain and the Pope is not silly. Additionally, there is grave danger and hardship for the illegal immigrant who is enticed into shadow living in the US. They are at the mercy of those that would exploit and abuse them. Please answer me this simple question: Do you think that the Church is saying that the US does not have the right to control illegal immigration? If so, please provide the reference.
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MumboJumbo
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Yes, let our streets be filled with Latin American gangs just so a few people can feel closer to God. Let us shoot poor Americans in the back while they live on the streets, but let us feed the overpopulated third world that dumps its people into our country to steal everything they can get their hands on. And God will reward those who refuse to fight for what some Americans died for. Where do you learn your Catholicism. By militant priests from Latin America?
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Tigg
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I don’t believe it fair to call those with a differing opinion “bashers.” Wasn’t this article posted on a similar thread?
I have yet (and I’ve been waiting through dozens of threads on this subject) to find any response by the pro-illegal alien group that can justify (in accordance with AUTHENTIC Church teaching on social justice) the absolute harm being done to this country and its citizens by allowing the entry of millions of illegal people. Should I list all the negatives and injustices impacting our society and “the common good” once again, or just refer you to at least a dozen different links?
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RWMorris
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I think you need to reread my post; I agree with you.
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MumboJumbo
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Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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elts1956
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For me, there are two ways to look at this issue. 1. Laws must be upheld, or we will have chaos. There were US laws stating that an immigrant would be considered illegal unless s/he followed US law and had documentation to become a citizen of the US. These laws are ignored. To me this is injustice to the people living in the US, are citizens of this country and pay taxes through the nose.
Then, you have the Christian law, such as the Church is upholding, in that immigrants legal, or illegal must be allowed their dignity and given our compassion as well as we can give it. This is very basic to Christian belief. They have not indicated that illegal immigrants deserve the same amenities as do the citizens, or legal immigrants. But, how all this will be paid for, I have no idea, especially if the present POTUS and his cronies keep using our money for schemes that, so far, have proven idiotic.
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d97c
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"…immigrants legal, or illegal must be allowed their dignity and given our compassion as well as we can give it."
I think you hit it on the head. I think we are being asked to give more “compassion” than we realistically can give to the 13 million illegals who have sneaked in here (or overstayed their visas) and exist under the radar, or the millions who want to crawl over the unsecure border. As with most laws in this country that attempt to show our compassion as a people, we have laws that allow immigrants here legally, allow their kids to be citizens and get free education, give them health care if they go to the ER and other freebies. Some of these Bishops, like the one here, give lip service to the “obey the laws” mantra, but then quite clearly say that the right to “migrate” almost REQUIRES we allow millions in here, legally or illegally. I’m seriously beginnig to wonder about them. Think of the logic and precedent: If I am unhappy, if I think I need a better life, can I make the decision it’s ok and then take something the law says I can’t take. Can I cut in front of those who are following the law (legal immigrants) because I SAY that I NEED it? Where is the church on that, other than to give lip service to “don’t violate the law.” Would it be ok for me to take money out of the collection basket at Mass because “hey, the Church has alot of money, and I just lost my job, and they should have a program to help me in the parish, and since they don’t I’ll take the 20$ !”
The citizens of this nation, THIS NATION, have the right to decide who we want in here and what compassion we should give to those who want to come in here and be citizens…be AMERICANS. That’s why we have requirements before they can come in here. And to quote your statement above: I think we are, through our laws, giving as much compassion “as well as we can give it.” Let’s try a little compassion for the 10.2% unemployed American citizens who are trying to get the jobs the illegal aliens are getting by undercutting the wages that Americans would work for BUT FOR the illegals taking them.
I think you hit it on the head. I think we are being asked to give more “compassion” than we realistically can give to the 13 million illegals who have sneaked in here (or overstayed their visas) and exist under the radar, or the millions who want to crawl over the unsecure border. As with most laws in this country that attempt to show our compassion as a people, we have laws that allow immigrants here legally, allow their kids to be citizens and get free education, give them health care if they go to the ER and other freebies. Some of these Bishops, like the one here, give lip service to the “obey the laws” mantra, but then quite clearly say that the right to “migrate” almost REQUIRES we allow millions in here, legally or illegally. I’m seriously beginnig to wonder about them. Think of the logic and precedent: If I am unhappy, if I think I need a better life, can I make the decision it’s ok and then take something the law says I can’t take. Can I cut in front of those who are following the law (legal immigrants) because I SAY that I NEED it? Where is the church on that, other than to give lip service to “don’t violate the law.” Would it be ok for me to take money out of the collection basket at Mass because “hey, the Church has alot of money, and I just lost my job, and they should have a program to help me in the parish, and since they don’t I’ll take the 20$ !”
The citizens of this nation, THIS NATION, have the right to decide who we want in here and what compassion we should give to those who want to come in here and be citizens…be AMERICANS. That’s why we have requirements before they can come in here. And to quote your statement above: I think we are, through our laws, giving as much compassion “as well as we can give it.” Let’s try a little compassion for the 10.2% unemployed American citizens who are trying to get the jobs the illegal aliens are getting by undercutting the wages that Americans would work for BUT FOR the illegals taking them.
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Lynxdk
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Illegal Aliens don’t all come here for jobs. If it’s the jobs they wanted, they’re better off staying where they are, American corporations will just ship the jobs their way.
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Tigg
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I am wondering about the title of this thread and your comment above. You are correct that love of neighbor and upholding human dignity is the crux of social justice, but it’s fairly obvious you think that those of us who are against illegal immigration are not upholding this teaching. That is simply not true. I would suggest you really research this “political” issue – the Center for Immigration Studies is a very good place to start because in your comment above you only mention economic issues, which is really only the tip of this monstrously deceptive iceberg which is actually changing American society as we have always known it.
Speaking of life issues, I’m wondering from your comments if you are also a proponent of the Seamless Garment argument which states that injustices like world hunger, poverty and war are the moral equivalent to evils like abortion. This is a false teaching that has done great harm and caused confusion in the hearts of faithful Catholics.
Welcoming the stranger in our midst at all costs doesn’t do much for those truly suffering on many levels from the ill effects of an invasion from a foreign country. Yes, I would use the word invasion rather than immigration to accurately describe our situation. No one knows the true numbers but political pundits and polls indicate that the 12 million you hear touted cannot be accurate as tens of thousands have poured over the border since those first numbers were released. The estimated statistics alone constitute an invasion. Our own government has been complicit in enticing them here and has failed to provide American citizens with the most basic of their responsibilities – to protect our national border.
Here is a thought from our beloved JP II and his encyclical letter, On Social Concern.
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Elizabeth502
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There is a reason why the Vatican does not define U.S. immigration policy, or any other country’s immigration policy, for that matter. Thanks be to God that He gave the keys on secular matters to secular governments with the experience, knowledge, training, to know what the heck they’re doing. It’s terrific that my Church, the RCC, has the expertise in the realm of The Infinite. It’s equally terrific that there are others with different expertise in the world of Finite Mathematics. (Such as, how many human beings can be sustained and thrive happily in any given number of square miles with existing natural resources. Hmmm.)
The Vatican is the expert on How Many Angels Can Dance on the Head of a Pin. People who study critical matters such as demographics, water supply, housing supply, educational & health resources, and the ecological effect of concentrated populations, are the experts on the How Many Human Beings Can Thrive in a Fixed Space.
The statement cited by the OP is correct in only one area:
The bolded section is not just the responsibility of the Church. It’s the responsibility of all those privileged enough to live in First World environments. The path to a more humane existence for those outside our borders, is to transform their countries from Third World to First World countries, not to transform First World to Third World countries with massive migration (legal or illegal).
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d97c
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This article says that the Senate health bill allows illegal immigrants health care. I really object to illegal aliens getting the same as citizens get and getting what the people who wait in line to get here DONT get.
washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/30/health-bills-fail-to-block-illegals-from-coverage//print/
washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/30/health-bills-fail-to-block-illegals-from-coverage//print/
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Tigg
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I agree with you in light of the fact that we now know there will be cuts in Medicare to help pay for this. So the most vulnerable and needy in this country, the elderly, who can barely pay their heating bills in the wintertime, will have restricted healthcare in favor of another group, illegal immigrants. This does not conform to the true social justice teaching of the Church and is one more reason we need to re-think the blanket statements made by the liberal bishops in this country to “welcome the stranger” at all costs.
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Elizabeth502
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In strong agreement with this last sentence.
It also is off-kilter with the RCC’s moral theology, which assumes a priority for the most vulnerable - defined as those who innocently and by nature & age – not by their own actions – are vulnerable and helpless ( = beginning + end of life)
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Irish_Catholic_1
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I am a 100% faithful Catholic, faithful to the Magisterium
Having said that, sometimes I wish the Vatican would keep its nose out of the internal judicial issues of other countries.
There is nothing wrong with welcoming migrants, as long as they are legal migrants. BUT: Illegal immigration is against the law, hence the term “Illegal Immigration”.
If the Vatican is suggesting that we turn a blind eye to lawbreakers, then the Vatican is dead wrong this time.
Having said that, sometimes I wish the Vatican would keep its nose out of the internal judicial issues of other countries.
There is nothing wrong with welcoming migrants, as long as they are legal migrants. BUT: Illegal immigration is against the law, hence the term “Illegal Immigration”.
If the Vatican is suggesting that we turn a blind eye to lawbreakers, then the Vatican is dead wrong this time.
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estesbob
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The Vaticna makes it clear that Countrys have the right to control the flow if immigrants into the country. Its concern is how they are treated when they get here.
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marci
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**“Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.” **(Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 2241)
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