Respect for the Muslims.

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GessHrck said:
Thank you for your response. This is obviously my own opinion, as all the Muslims I have met or heard of are unsupportive of the Terrorists. My perspective is molded this way because I’ve been repeatedly told that they’re discriminated for views they don’t have, and stereotypes that they don’t fit.

This is also very interesting:
loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/
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The thing is, Gesshrck, many of them (I’m not saying all) SAY they are totally innocent of promoting terrorism and of being a “religion of peace,” but infact they are actually practicing Taqquiyah, which basically means a Muslim hiding and lying about one’s true beliefs in order to survive being part of a minority population. When their population becomes the majority population, though then you see their true beliefs----whcih calls for the spread of Islam by the sword—basically convert or die. TRUE muslims believe this----it may be that some of your friends are not devout, “true” Muslims-----in which case, they would be classified as apostates and traitors in some Islamic countries and be put to death.

You should read books by Robert Spencer, one of the top experts on what Islam is really like. Also books by Ex-Terrorist Walid Shoebat and Bernard Lewis, who is probably the top (Non-Muslim) Islam scholar in the world. 👍
 
greenmoira said:
GessHrck: I suggest that you take some time and research the Muslim intolerance and massacre of Catholics and Christians throughout a very large part of this world. This is happening right now! Generally, you can substitute the term"Christian" for Catholic in the news articles. Your brother Catholics are being tortured, raped and then slaughtered for their faith throughout Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe. This includes the priests and religious that risk their lives staying there to minister to their flocks. Then I suggest that you do a little reading about the Moslem, or Mohammedan, (as they used to be called) invasion of the Holy Land & Europe during the early Medieval years. You may, or may not, have heard of El Cid or that the Blessed Virgin Mary helped the Catholics win back their lands with the victory at the Battle of Lepanto! Once you have learned some history, you may have a slightly different stance. I am not advocating disrepect of any one. However, there have been occasions throughout history that some people “lie low” until they have the upper hand and then reveal their true identity. The Koran also does not restrict “lying” to infidels, only to the members of Islamism. You have to be able to discern truth from fraud. In order to do that, you have to know the truth which you can learn from history. I pray that this will give you some cause to do the research. It never hurts to ask God to give you the grace to know the “Truth” God bless you.
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I basically agree with this. 👍
 
GessHrck said:
I apologize for the long post–I was gone half the day and I’ve just now been given the chance to reply to everyone.

Obviously this is all true. But think about the Muslims who are stuck in war zones under a leader they don’t agree with? There is an army of terrorists! But you have to remember that there is a significant percentage of the rest of the Muslims who are against terrorism.

This is true. I do not believe in their religion, I simply respect their modesty.

Very good points. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I very much agree with you, and yes, I have heard of a few of those things. But that still doesn’t mean there aren’t peaceful Muslims. St Francis spoke with the Muslims trying to take over the Holy Land, and he offered a treaty. It was US, the CHRISTIANS, who rejected the treaty. We continued to fight even though they were willing to make amends.
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The peaceful Muslims are either peaceful because they have adapted to their western environment and have become somewhat westernized and truly secular and non-devout, in which they are NOT true Muslims, or they are practicing Takiyah on you and the rest of society according to their religion’s dictates.
 
GessHrck said:
Well written. Thank you.

Yes, I know this. But here in America they choose to do it freely just because they desire to be modest. Their motives are different.

Well that’s very nice of you. And also against our own religion. We’re called to be tolerant, and we SHOULD feel sorry for them. Which is exactly how I feel, and how you should as well.

I feel it’s fair to tell you most of the Muslims are unable to get out of such strict countries. It absolutely is not their fault.
And, as women, we’re supposed to take care of the family. We care for our children and our husband. Men are the providers, they get the bread. We cook it. Don’t complain, it’s not YOUR job to do.

Thank you very much. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions, nothing can change that. I’m happy that everyone is given the chance to voice their perspective.
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A little aside here--------

Yes, Muslim women are genuinely modest according to their religion (which also enjoins men to be modest in dress, BTW) over here; besides, many of them want to keep Islamic culture alive over here; plus they grew up with modesty beliefs----but they also (some of them) also don’t want to either get the you-know-what beaten out of them by their husbands or just plain killed for disobeying their “better halfs.” Some of these women have no choice an d dress that way against their will. As you well know, there are honor killings in the US all the time. Read the Koran. it states women are half of men. Like others said here------read about what you respect and develop some sort of discernment after as to what you respect is worth respecting. And I mean this in a non-confrontational way, BTW. And, if nothing else, you ARE very intelligent and perceptive.👍
 
Sufjon said:
Dear GessHrc:

I have read your post and read the replies. I am impressed with the insight that you have at such a young age. Other people, like relatives you mentioned, and people who have responded to your post will have what opinions they will. By reading your post, my sense is that you should trust yourself. It seems that your own heart is straight and most correct. A person such as yourself is your own best moral compass, and I’m grateful that there are people like you coming into the world. Be resolute on your convictions, because you have a great deal of wisdom.

Your friend,
Sufjon
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I have often read and admired Sufjons posts which on the whole often offer a quiet peacefull and well put together reply on most of the posts not directly related to her distinct spiritual tradition. Here again she is true to form and her advise is good. A person such as yourself is your own best moral compass, and I’m grateful that there are people like you coming into the world.

What I suggest is that you research more; look beyond your personal and local observations and find the complete picture. Do it on an unbiased way taking in all sides and then Pray for Christ to send you the Holy Spirit for guidance and then you can be part of spreading the truth.

This process will take some time but I will be interested in what your opinions are when you have really researched every aspect of the debate,

🙂
 
I usually tried to avoid these sorts of threads on CAF because it tends to bring out ignorance and intolerance. Throughout history “terrorist” acts have been committed by believers of many religions - including Catholicism.

If one doesn’t understand someone’s else’s religion they shouldn’t comment on it. If one wants to understand then they should seek information from those who are of that faith.

We are all individuals with virtues and vices. God loves us all. What is in our hearts and minds and how we treat others is what is most important.

You’re obviously very young Gess. Seek answers from those that know and not those who are bigoted.

God bless you,
Clare
 
poor_clare said:
I usually tried to avoid these sorts of threads on CAF because it tends to bring out ignorance and intolerance. Throughout history “terrorist” acts have been committed by believers of many religions - including Catholicism.

If one doesn’t understand someone’s else’s religion they shouldn’t comment on it. If one wants to understand then they should seek information from those who are of that faith.

We are all individuals with virtues and vices. God loves us all. What is in our hearts and minds and how we treat others is what is most important.

You’re obviously very young Gess. Seek answers from those that know and not those who are bigoted.

God bless you,
Clare
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yeah,terrorist acts have been commited by believers of many religions,but only muslims commiting terrorist acts for faith,i mean,christians commited terrorist acts,but there are no bible verse commanding killing people,but in qoran,there are tons tons and tons of verses about ‘‘jihad’’ ‘‘ffighting in the name of allah’’ ‘‘kill those who …’’ ‘‘slay those who …’’ ‘‘disable those who …’’ etc.so i think islam dont deserve respect.if we will show their religion respect,and allow them to settle in our countries and make many children,they wont respect us when they will gather power and contain demographic majority.maybe they want to respect us but if they are faithfull,they cant 🙂 i think we shouldnt allow them to build mosques unless they will build churches in their countries.we shouldnt allow them to build great mosques unless they build catedrals in their countries,we shouldnt allow them to send islamic missionaries unless they learn to tolerate (and of course,to not kill) christian missionaries.we shouldnt show respect and tolerate them unless they show respect minorities in their countries.i think we should force them to pay a christian ‘‘jizya’’.minorities have to pay an extra tribute to government if they dont want to be beheaded in islamic countries,but terrorists are living in our countries in prosperity,even without working,with ‘‘unemployment salary’’ !.
 
Venezia said:
yeah,terrorist acts have been commited by believers of many religions,but only muslims commiting terrorist acts for faith,i mean,christians commited terrorist acts,but there are no bible verse commanding killing people,but in qoran,there are tons tons and tons of verses about ‘‘jihad’’ ‘‘ffighting in the name of allah’’ ‘‘kill those who …’’ ‘‘slay those who …’’ ‘‘disable those who …’’ etc.so i think islam dont deserve respect.if we will show their religion respect,and allow them to settle in our countries and make many children,they wont respect us when they will gather power and contain demographic majority.maybe they want to respect us but if they are faithfull,they cant 🙂 i think we shouldnt allow them to build mosques unless they will build churches in their countries.we shouldnt allow them to build great mosques unless they build catedrals in their countries,we shouldnt allow them to send islamic missionaries unless they learn to tolerate (and of course,to not kill) christian missionaries.we shouldnt show respect and tolerate them unless they show respect minorities in their countries.i think we should force them to pay a christian ‘‘jizya’’.minorities have to pay an extra tribute to government if they dont want to be beheaded in islamic countries,but terrorists are living in our countries in prosperity,even without working,with ‘‘unemployment salary’’ !.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about but you’ve proven my point for me.
 
so,whats your ideas ? should we give our countries to them so easily ?
 
Although we are instructed to love our neighbors, Jesus told His disciples also to continue teaching what they have seen and learned from the Lord, to spread the good news and teach those who are lost that there is no life but through Him. Are we fortunate as Catholics to believe in the Church Jesus founded and not be able to reach out for our dear brothers and sisters who are lost. Is charity better than knowing and following the true God? As the greatest commandments of God is first and foremost to Love thy God with all your might and strength, should we not teach others who does not know God well to continue their ways just because they are our neighbors even though they do not accept Christ?

Christ was clear enough to let the Jews know that He was disappointed for them not believing in Him. My point is that, we should always give room for teaching others the Truth so that they may be in communion with the Church He left us to follow. As Jesus taught us the Way, we must likewise convince our brothers and sisters who are lost to know the Truth so that they may also have Life.
 
Venezia said:
you are wrong,in most muslim countries they dont live happily,at least,i wouldnt be happy with being humiliated as paying jizya tribute (an extra tax that nonmuslims have to pay if they dont want to be beheaded),and as losing some of my rights (nonmuslims cant hold strong positions in governments and being ruled by muslim rulers.even though our religion advices us to obey rulers,i would prefer to die than being ruled by a muslim governor) and certainly,all of sharia-ruling muslims countries kills apostates,have killed apostates for 1400 years,currently killing and they will still kill.i think tolerating invaders for the sake of ‘‘democracy’’ is greatest fault europe have ever done.
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This is quite an ignorant post. The jizya tax paid by non-Muslims was only equal to the zakah that a Muslim is obligated to give. There is no fundamental difference between the two forms of giving other than who pays them.

Also, there have been Muslims in my country (the UK) since the 1500s when merchants began trading goods from the East. Nearly all of these have contributed greatly to British society.

Also, sources for all these ‘facts’ about Islam please? Credible,full bibliography of sources if you can.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I’m not going to debate any longer, I’ve gotten a taste of both sides; exactly what I was looking for.

I agree with some of the critique of Muslims. But I’m trying to remain open-minded.

In conclusion, I’ve learned a lot. Thank you to all who have shared their views with me.

On a final note, of course I know their religion is wrong. Of course I know Catholicism is the true faith. But their devotion to Allah and their determination to remain holy is admirable. If anything we can learn from these people.

Of course I’m not disregarding the things I’ve learned about them since I’ve started my post. It’s disappointing to know they believe they can kill whoever does not comply with their beliefs. I’ve come to learn much. Thanks everyone.
 
Kouyate42 said:
This is quite an ignorant post. The jizya tax paid by non-Muslims was only equal to the zakah that a Muslim is obligated to give. There is no fundamental difference between the two forms of giving other than who pays them.

Also, there have been Muslims in my country (the UK) since the 1500s when merchants began trading goods from the East. Nearly all of these have contributed greatly to British society.

Also, sources for all these ‘facts’ about Islam please? Credible,full bibliography of sources if you can.
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these facts are from their book,if you will search ‘‘dhimmitude’’ and/or ‘‘nonmuslims in sharia’’ in google,u can see the verses in their book about ‘‘qaffirs’’,i u still wont believe,u can easily buy a quran and read by your eyes.about the death penalty of apostasy ? yes,there are no verse in qoran like ‘‘kil all apostates’’,but their ‘‘prophet’’ like bedouin leader has told '‘kill all ‘murtad’s (apostates),firstly,give them 3 days to reconvert to islam,if they wont reconvert,kill them’’.and now,u can see the situation of sharia-ruling countries (afghanistan,saudi arabia,iran,malaisia,mauritania,pakistan).i would deny to be a dhimmi and prefer to die if i was in a sharia country.wont they demand sharia when they will become majority due to migrations and high fertility rate ? i dont want to see my grandchildren speaking arabic,worshipping allah and living in a country which has a flag with moon and crescent one day.
 
GessHrck said:
My Mother, and a select bunch of other people I know, tell me how “Muslims are doing this, doing that, they’re disrespectful, they’re terrorists, they’re going to overpopulate and there will be no more Caucasians and Christians, etc.”
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Muslims are keeping God’s command. Caucasians and “Christians” are contracepting themselves into oblivion.

Not to worry though. “Progressive” Muslim countries such as Iran are quickly catching on.
 
mark_a said:
Muslims are keeping God’s command. Caucasians and “Christians” are contracepting themselves into oblivion.

Not to worry though. “Progressive” Muslim countries such as Iran are quickly catching on.
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Yup. I agree. I’m sick of small families, sorry. Big families are better in every way.
 
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