Respect the devil

[DMC12]

I know we should respect our enemy, but i wonder to what degree? I know certainly not as much as God or the saints. but sometimes when speaking of magic and such, i try to sound like im not really concerned about it, that it is some foolishness that people should avoid, in order to convince people who don’t believe in God of not engaging in such activities, but i feel like im mocking that in a way i shouldn’t, notice that I try to speak seriously if i believe the situation needs it, but on the other is like i try to make them despise the activity even if they don’t share our beliefs.

so the question is how we should treat the devil, magic and such, to what degree we should respect those in our words? (in general not just the example I gave, altough some advices on that one would be good)

 

[PolarGuy]

“Respect our enemy” might be paraphrased as “have grudging admiration for,” the way a boxer has grudging admiration for another fighter who has given them a tough fight. That is not the way to approach the devil.

The way to view the devil, magic, etc.? Be aware they exist; avoid unhealthy interest in them; and stay far, far away from them.

 

[Viki63]

“The devil, the proud spirit, cannot endure to be mocked,” said St. Thomas More.

How do you treat someone who wants you dead? Stay far away from him.
The devil has been defeated by Jesus in his crucifixion and resurrection. Focus on Him.
The problem with magic, you probably know, is that it tries to compel God to do our will, tries to order Him around. We shouldn’t do that.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Focus on Him. The problem with magic, you probably know, is that it tries to compel God to do our will, tries to order Him around. We shouldn’t do that.

Yes, instead let’s all do what God says because freedom is overrated.

People disbelieve in both because they’re sick of the idea they’re nothing but pawns in the game between the Guy Upstairs and the Guy Downstairs. This picture of the supernatural needs an update and I wouldn’t shed a tear if you’d all call me a modernist heretic for the suggestion.

 

[SighGuy]

They’re not pawns. They’re free to choose as they will.

God’s will is infinitely wise and good. We wish to (or ought to wish to) follow God’s will because it is the rational choice. It is right to worship God, and it is right to seek what is best for us. Both of these meet their fulfillment in following God’s will.

Freedom is not overrated, as God Himself has given it to us-- he clearly values our freedom of will. I do not follow what your concern is, Lost Wanderer. Although it troubles me. I only hope that you know that God’s will for each of us is perfect, and if we choose perfection and love, we choose a path that is as parallel as it can be to God’s will, till we be so united to His will that ours and His are the same.

Yet God so loves us that he is willing to suffer infinite pain for the loss of us, as we take our own freedom and follow a dark path of our own choosing, coming to imperfection, death and loss by our own will. God loves us so much that He is willing to suffer for our foolish freedom…

Furthermore, our freedom, bound up in God’s own will, is not “un-free” because it mirrors God’s will. If you and I were the closest of friends, so much so that we thought alike and laughed alike, and I suggested we go to one place to eat that I knew you would love, and you, knowing this, agreed… would you call yourself without a will? Did you not have the right to agree with me? Purely because we are in agreement, because our two wills are aligned, does not destroy your freedom. In God, in fact, it perfects it.

Peace and all grace to you, friend!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Freedom is not overrated, as God Himself has given it to us-- he clearly values our freedom of will. I do not follow what your concern is, Lost Wanderer. Although it troubles me. I only hope that you know that God’s will for each of us is perfect, and if we choose perfection and love, we choose a path that is as parallel as it can be to God’s will, till we be so united to His will that ours and His are the same.

If you can’t see the irony of calling the freedom God gives us is foolish, then of course you won’t follow. The subjectivity of God only wanting what’s best for us or being representative of what we want is really the point of conflict spiritual types have with me and I wound up having a really big axe to grind.

Frankly, I don’t find the whole concept of being aligned with God’s will absurd. It’s the distortions of pseudo-pagan fatalism that I observe in Catholics here and in real life that I completely dismiss. The whole thing has gotten so bad for me (down to the personal level) that I’ve had serious doubts even the Church has the whole picture of it now.

 

[Stillsosola]

The devil and magic are to be shunned completely i could see not lightly provoking satan but no i dont fear him or respect him. And honestly the devil is too busy to mess with everyday joes like us its his foot soldiers demons who mess with us just wearing a scapular or a cross is enough to mock them and anger them but they only have as much power as god allows remember job? But that being said never engage a demon they are much smarter than you and ive never heard of anyone completely taming one to thier will in magic

Immight sound superstitious talking of demons and such but ive been touched by evil so i believe it exists and that god let it touch me for a reason.

You should learn all you can on demons and satan since its good to know your enemy well to keep them at bay.

 

[DMC12]

i mean in respect the devil not as in admiration, but more like recognize his power to not mess around more than needed, which could be a sin i think, since we would be prideful if we did. so when speaking about them to what degree of respect should we speak about them?

i think we should do it normally without the intention to offend them and that’s all, but would like your opinions on that.

 

[SighGuy]

I apologize if I was not explicit in my meaning. If I understand you, you are in reference to my calling freedom valuable and yet also foolish. I could have been more precise and said “our freedom to choose is valuable” and “our erroneous choices are foolish”. I did not use freedom in the same way both times, rather, a sort of f1 and f2.

If that is not what you meant, I do not see your meaning, as you have been rather cryptic and vague.

Nevertheless, this is probably not the best place to state the problem, as it is not the name of the thread. Before you doubt the Church, take it up with the Church-- seek a priest or even a bishop if need be.

All peace and grace!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I apologize if I was not explicit in my meaning. If I understand you, you are in reference to my calling freedom valuable and yet also foolish. I could have been more precise and said “our freedom to choose is valuable” and “our erroneous choices are foolish”. I did not use freedom in the same way both times, rather, a sort of f1 and f2.

Well glad you cleared that up. Your analogy about close friends wasn’t entirely inaccurate. I just think that very idea alone has led me to question what the Church believes about freedom. My misgivings on the other hand are just extremely exacerbated by the idea that we’re in some kind of silly ‘war’ where either/both God and Satan are pulling the strings.

But that being said never engage a demon they are much smarter than you

I doubt the intelligence of any entity who thinks they can draw more by simultaneously causing one group of people to disbelieve while at the same time have another believe in its so-called ‘powers.’