Respecting parents

[fredystairs]

It’s always been somewhat this way. I know I never let her find out about anything she wouldn’t like all through teenage years and most of the way through college, because of this sort of mess. It’s intensified recently, but then it’s been pretty recent that I stopped hiding everything from her.

What about her past then? What was her life like when she was growing up? Relationship to other people? Just trying to find the source for her behavior. Once you find out what started this then you might be better able to deal with it.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Ok, now that I understand the situation a little more, I would suggest, as others are, to set some firm boundaries. It is not disrespectful to refuse to interact with someone who is being manipulative. Are the manipulations repetitive? When you reflect back on them, do you think, “I should’ve seen this coming”? Or do you find yourself completel caught off guard and not knowing how to respond? Part of your reflection might be to come up with some general boundary-setting statements. Plan and practice them ahead of time, so that you are not caught off guard. Things like, “Mom you are not being respectful to me. I’m not going to continue this conversation.” or “I would prefer not to talk about this topic.” or “I’ve already said it before, I’m not discussing this topic with you.” or “You are not being respectful to my point of view. I’ll be happy to talk about this with you when you can speak to me with respect.” Even if you are caught off guard, if you have gone into the visit/conversation reminding yourself that this might happen, you can usually avoid lashing out with disrespect. You could say, “Wow!” or “Hmmm…” or “I’ll have to think about what you just said…” and walk out of the room. Or simply excuse yourself from the situation. The thing is, for her to successfully be manipulative, you have to react in the way that she wants you to. To shut the conversation down, and to refuse to respond to manipulative talk, will make her manipulation less successful. She can say whatever she likes, but you don’t have to respond to it. In the same way, you can change the way you react to her, but you can’t necessarily change how she behaves. Sometimes setting boundaries actually causes the person crossing them to take notice and make a change. Other times, they continue the inappropriate behavior. Even then though, as long as you are on your side of the boundaries, you can protect yourself.

 

[Evania]

Yes, I agree. There needs to be some boundaries set. To me it doesn’t appear to be rebellion, as much as her not knowing how to switch gears now that you’re an adult. I know that you said that she’s not a good listener, and that your talking to her does little good. I wouldn’t quit trying though, because it isn’t fair to you to have this toxicity leveled on your shoulders. It brings you down, builds resentment, and ultimately kills your relationship with her. I still say, don’t respond in a mean tone. However, if you respond with a simply, “No, that’s not true.”, and remove yourself from the situation repeatedly, it will be on her shoulders because she won’t be able to unload on you. In my opinion, that is a good way to set a boundary, without severing your bond with her.

 

[robwar]

Just so we’re clear, I’m 24, mostly self-supporting, and do not live near her. I receive a little bit of help from them on medical issues, because I have some fairly serious medical issues and the insurance we get here doesn’t cover.

I just feel like she can’t let anything go. Choices I make that have nothing to do with her are “rebellious” - like my wardrobe, which she immensely dislikes and goes on about despite admitting that there’s no moral issue at stake. She’s free to have her opinion, but I don’t want to hear about it every time she sees me! But I feel like I can’t tell her to back off without it being “disrespectful”. Religious issues are even worse - during a recent phone call she spent 10min lecturing me on why a belief she assumed I had (based on a fragment of conversation during which she cut me off) was wrong. When I’ve tried to correct her on certain views she’ll tell me to not contradict her.

I feel bad for some of my reactions, but I also don’t feel like they’ve been entirely under control. We’ve had several conversations that have ended with me in tears from them - something that’s gone on as far back as I remember. That used to be much more frequent, actually, before I got old enough to walk off. I’ve also often not been able to hide my irritation, especially when I’m hurt by her words.

I do feel like she’s trying. I just…feel like she’s living in a world where everything is about her, and where I’m still a rebellious teenager to be set straight every time I do something she doesn’t like. This seems to occur no matter what I say or how I act, and I don’t know what to do. I do think she’s trying to help and protect me, but…I’m not a little girl anymore, and I am going to make decisions she doesn’t like.

You have deeper issues here and maybe finding a good counselor will help you sort out the hurt and pain you have from your parents. It is to wage your finger at someone and say you need to respect your parents (which is basically true based on the 4th commandment) but much harder because you are an adult and now on your own and still being treated like a teenager with no brains. They likewise need to let you go and respect you as well and the decisions you make. Respect doesn’t been you have to continue to put up with being manipulated and abused. I hope you get some help.

 

[Allegra]

My mother is also very difficult to deal with and she has always been very critical of me. She can be extremely hurtful and it’s to the point where I don’t believe she is trying to help or even has the slightest hope that I will change. She merely wants me to know of her disapproval. For the most part, changing the subject will work, however, when she is adamant she is going to have her say, I generally say something like, “I’m not willing to discuss this with you anymore.” She doesn’t try to continue to bother me after that. Years ago, I had to hang up on her when she went on about how fill-in-the-black I was. I bet she kept talking until she heard the dial tone! I hope your mother gets the picture easier than mine did. At any rate, you should draw some boundaries.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, that does shed a bit more light. I can definitely see your POV and sympathize.

Is your mother alone? Are you the youngest? Does she have ‘empty nest’ syndrome?

It seems that you said that earlier you kept things from her that would upset her (and I understand that reasoning too) but here is a thought: Perhaps that is part of the reason that now that you ARE speaking up for yourself, she has greater difficulty accepting it. Perhaps she misses that child who ‘didn’t criticize’ and she is, thus, grieving in a way for that loss. Perhaps she is at the stage where she is kind of denying that you could change, and feeling that if she just keeps at you, you will ‘go back’ to somebody she is more comfortable dealing with.

But again, a lot of this is not really directed at being disrespectful or hurtful to you–it is more like a coping reaction (a bad one, true) of hers in trying to keep things comfortable for her and (she probably truly thinks) better for you. It is frustrating but it is probably well meant on her part because she truly thinks that her help and insight will be better for you.

Could you respect her more if you focused on taking her comments as maybe wrongheaded but deep down meant to help? That the person she criticizes isn’t really ‘you’ as you are, but a child she sees? That it’s always hard to establish a different relationship at first, but it can be done?

And of course, it is also possible that she has health issues. While it is RARE, it is true that certain types of schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder often manifest themselves in a person in his/her 40s or 50s; and there is early dementia to consider as well. So a good physical checkup would likely be helpful for her.

 

[acadiANNA]

I think a confirmation of her feelings is what she needs. For instance, when she says, “I don’t like what you are wearing.” Just answer, “Oh, you don’t like what I’m wearing?”, politely, but letting her understand that you have heard her. And let it end there. If she says, “I don’t think you need to go to the party”. Just answer, “Oh, you don’t think I should go to the party?” I think she just needs to know you hear her. Maybe, just maybe, that would work.

 

[DarkLight]

It seems that you said that earlier you kept things from her that would upset her (and I understand that reasoning too) but here is a thought: Perhaps that is part of the reason that now that you ARE speaking up for yourself, she has greater difficulty accepting it. Perhaps she misses that child who ‘didn’t criticize’ and she is, thus, grieving in a way for that loss. Perhaps she is at the stage where she is kind of denying that you could change, and feeling that if she just keeps at you, you will ‘go back’ to somebody she is more comfortable dealing with.

I think this is a big part of the frustration for both of us. She is upset and hurt that I am pushing back and asking her to not do things all of a sudden. I am angry that I could not do so before. Many of these are things that have bothered me for quite some time, even back to teenage years. She feels like I suddenly started rebelling; I feel like I could never bring things up to her because I was too afraid. I feel like she in many cases mistook lack of protest from me for agreement - I’ve had a couple of conversations where she’s expressed surprise that I object to something, because I “never used to say anything about it.” Which, from my perspective, of course I never said anything, because I’d just have gotten in trouble for “talking back” or “being contradictory” or something.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I don’t know you and don’t know the full situation even after you described it here on this thread. But…I think one way you could “honor” your mother could be to cut your mom more slack and forgive her for not being perfect! She’s a human person–with human faults and failings. Jesus got to make His own mother–and He made her perfect. Your mom isn’t perfect yet, but in many ways, children help to make their parents perfect.

Just as she helped to shape and form you within her womb, you help to shape and form her. If she doesn’t act like all your other family members, remember that none of your other family members gave birth to you. You have hurt her more than you will realize and she loves you more than you realize.

You mention you have some serious health issues–but I don’t think you (or many people on this thread) realize how utterly helpless it makes parents feel to see their child suffer with serious health issues! Some people do not react very well in medical situations. I worked in hospitals and I’ve seen what previously looked like decent, functioning individuals fall apart from the stress of medical issues. Plus there’s often financial worries on top of the health concerns. Stress exposses our weaknesses. You’re 24, so your are old enough to recognize your mom has weaknesses, but not yet wise enough to see how you contribute to them.

You say you are a mostly self sufficient 24 yo-- that means you you* were* a teen just five years ago and are still not fully self-sufficient. While you may now see yourself as a grown-up, it wasn’t that long ago from a parent’s perspective, that you really were a teen. Five years represents about 22% of your life, but only 10% for 50 year old. As we get older, five years doesn’t seem like very long ago. You now have an opportuntity to do penance and make restitution for any rebellion you went through as a teen. (Think of it as a form of purgatory.)

As of this point, you still are somewhat dependent upon your mother, so don’t be surprised if she’s not treating you like an adult. It’s somewhat awkward when one adult depends upon other adults–and those other adults don’t always deal with the situation gracefully.You say you think she’s trying to help and protect you–so recognize that and give her credit for trying! Humbly listen to her when she expresses her opinion, and hold back any eye rolls and negative looks. Smile. Tell her, “Oh Mom! I love you! I love that you worry about me still like I’m a little kid.” Give her a hug.

If you had a friend whose child had a serious health issue, she’d need a hug and some compassion. Your mom is not your friend–she’s your mother. And you, her child, have a serious health issue that causes her to worry about you as if you were a little kid!

If you want your mother to act more like the Blessed Mother, **you **are going to need to act a whole lot more like Jesus.

 

[90Domer]

See at this point I’m not even sure what “respecting” her means anymore. If anyone who was not a member of my immediate family spoke to me in the way she does I would refuse to ever interact with them again. As it is there are a number of issues that I refuse to engage with her, and I feel like I have to be sharp with her before she will listen to any boundaries at all. She’s not asking me to sin, exactly - but she is asking me to put up with a LOT of manipulation and emotional pain from her. I’m tired of listening to her litany of everything I’m doing wrong in my life, but I feel like I’m being told by her and those around her that I’m being disrespectful if I don’t hear her out yet again.

As several kind priests told me, you do not have to allow yourself to be subjected to abuse. The priest used the example about when Jesus entered an unfriendly town, He didn’t hang around to get abused…He left and looked for people who wanted to hear his message.

I am a strong believer that respect needs to be earned no matter what the relationship. I am sure you love your mom and pray for her, but her being your mom does not mean she can verbally beat up on you at will. Those who are telling you that you need to hear here out, throughout every rant, are wrong. She is not respecting your dignity as a daughter. I know this from personal experience and have spoken to several priests who say it is best to withdraw when a parent is being highly unreasonable.

 

[90Domer]

I think this is a big part of the frustration for both of us. She is upset and hurt that I am pushing back and asking her to not do things all of a sudden. I am angry that I could not do so before. Many of these are things that have bothered me for quite some time, even back to teenage years. She feels like I suddenly started rebelling; I feel like I could never bring things up to her because I was too afraid. I feel like she in many cases mistook lack of protest from me for agreement - I’ve had a couple of conversations where she’s expressed surprise that I object to something, because I “never used to say anything about it.” Which, from my perspective, of course I never said anything, because I’d just have gotten in trouble for “talking back” or “being contradictory” or something.

Please feel free to PM me…your story sounds a lot like mine.

 

[DarkLight]

I don’t know you and don’t know the full situation even after you described it here on this thread. But…I think one way you could “honor” your mother could be to cut your mom more slack and forgive her for not being perfect! She’s a human person–with human faults and failings. Jesus got to make His own mother–and He made her perfect. Your mom isn’t perfect yet, but in many ways, children help to make their parents perfect.

Just as she helped to shape and form you within her womb, you help to shape and form her. If she doesn’t act like all your other family members, remember that none of your other family members gave birth to you. You have hurt her more than you will realize and she loves you more than you realize.

Love or not - she’s making my own health worse. I dread every visit because it’s a nightmare of having all my supposed faults thrown in my face. I agonize over every outfit just to try to find something she might not complain about, I carefully plan every conversation and multiple ways to get out of it if I have to talk about a touchy issue. And every visit I come home exhausted and unable to function for a few days.

You mention you have some serious health issues–but I don’t think you (or many people on this thread) realize how utterly helpless it makes parents feel to see their child suffer with serious health issues! Some people do not react very well in medical situations. I worked in hospitals and I’ve seen what previously looked like decent, functioning individuals fall apart from the stress of medical issues. Plus there’s often financial worries on top of the health concerns. Stress exposses our weaknesses. You’re 24, so your are old enough to recognize your mom has weaknesses, but not yet wise enough to see how you contribute to them.

This is pretty much how she’s been, though, since before this came up. And she may want to help, but it’s pretty clear that she’s making things worse. I couldn’t even get these issues treated properly when they needed to be, because she would get in the way by trying to be so “helpful” that I couldn’t get anything done. I have mental health stuff that’s probably been going on for quite some time, but I couldn’t get them dealt with until I was on my own because she’d want to be involved and I couldn’t really say much of how I felt in front of her without getting in trouble. Any hint that I wasn’t happy with the way she acted was always punished.

You say you are a mostly self sufficient 24 yo-- that means you you* were* a teen just five years ago and are still not fully self-sufficient. While you may now see yourself as a grown-up, it wasn’t that long ago from a parent’s perspective, that you really were a teen. Five years represents about 22% of your life, but only 10% for 50 year old. As we get older, five years doesn’t seem like very long ago. You now have an opportuntity to do penance and make restitution for any rebellion you went through as a teen. (Think of it as a form of purgatory.)

I guess I feel like most of my teenage rebellion was in her head. I wasn’t perfect, but I wasn’t exactly the kind of child most parents would mind. I was a loner that preferred to study and focus on academics over other activities. I read or biked in my spare time. But I remember teenage years as the time when I was always in trouble, when I could never seem to do anything right no matter how hard I tried. I remember feeling like I was in trouble most often because my mother was in a bad mood, not because I’d actually done anything wrong. When she was in a bad mood anything at all was “disrespect,” even one time having my mouth open to breathe because my nose was stuffed up!

As of this point, you still are somewhat dependent upon your mother, so don’t be surprised if she’s not treating you like an adult. It’s somewhat awkward when one adult depends upon other adults–and those other adults don’t always deal with the situation gracefully.You say you think she’s trying to help and protect you–so recognize that and give her credit for trying! Humbly listen to her when she expresses her opinion, and hold back any eye rolls and negative looks. Smile. Tell her, “Oh Mom! I love you! I love that you worry about me still like I’m a little kid.” Give her a hug.

If you had a friend whose child had a serious health issue, she’d need a hug and some compassion. Your mom is not your friend–she’s your mother. And you, her child, have a serious health issue that causes her to worry about you as if you were a little kid!

If you want your mother to act more like the Blessed Mother, **you **are going to need to act a whole lot more like Jesus.

I’m not sure I can hold back all the negative looks and whatnot. I’ve frequently found myself in tears during our conversations, despite all my attempts to hide it. Other reactions, in body language and tone of voice, seem to just break through after a few hours of trying to talk. (And of course walking off is out of the question - that would be the height of disrespect according to her.) I’m really tired of dealing with her, especially at so much cost to myself at a time when I have so little to spare. Like I said before - if this were any other adult than her, I would have cut them out of my life long ago and never looked back.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Love or not - she’s making my own health worse. I dread every visit because it’s a nightmare of having all my supposed faults thrown in my face. I agonize over every outfit just to try to find something she might not complain about, I carefully plan every conversation and multiple ways to get out of it if I have to talk about a touchy issue. And every visit I come home exhausted and unable to function for a few days.

This is pretty much how she’s been, though, since before this came up. And she may want to help, but it’s pretty clear that she’s making things worse. I couldn’t even get these issues treated properly when they needed to be, because she would get in the way by trying to be so “helpful” that I couldn’t get anything done. I have mental health stuff that’s probably been going on for quite some time, but I couldn’t get them dealt with until I was on my own because she’d want to be involved and I couldn’t really say much of how I felt in front of her without getting in trouble. Any hint that I wasn’t happy with the way she acted was always punished.

I guess I feel like most of my teenage rebellion was in her head. I wasn’t perfect, but I wasn’t exactly the kind of child most parents would mind. I was a loner that preferred to study and focus on academics over other activities. I read or biked in my spare time. But I remember teenage years as the time when I was always in trouble, when I could never seem to do anything right no matter how hard I tried. I remember feeling like I was in trouble most often because my mother was in a bad mood, not because I’d actually done anything wrong. When she was in a bad mood anything at all was “disrespect,” even one time having my mouth open to breathe because my nose was stuffed up!

I’m not sure I can hold back all the negative looks and whatnot. I’ve frequently found myself in tears during our conversations, despite all my attempts to hide it. Other reactions, in body language and tone of voice, seem to just break through after a few hours of trying to talk. (And of course walking off is out of the question - that would be the height of disrespect according to her.) I’m really tired of dealing with her, especially at so much cost to myself at a time when I have so little to spare. Like I said before - if this were any other adult than her, I would have cut them out of my life long ago and never looked back.

:console: I’m sorry. I didn’t realize how bad it was. You mention you have some mental health issues–well, mental health issues can run in families. “Bad moods” might not fully describe what was going on with her at the time. Perhaps you can take some comfort that your mom may not be fully responsible for all the hurt she has caused and is causing you. If your mother is Catholic, maybe this Lent you could encourage her to go with you to Church for Confession (individually). Confession is one of the Sacraments of Healing–and it seems like you both could benefit from some healing and grace. Prayers for you and her.

 

[DarkLight]

:console: I’m sorry. I didn’t realize how bad it was. You mention you have some mental health issues–well, mental health issues can run in families. “Bad moods” might not fully describe what was going on with her at the time. Perhaps you can take some comfort that your mom may not be fully responsible for all the hurt she has caused and is causing you. If your mother is Catholic, maybe this Lent you could encourage her to go with you to Church for Confession (individually). Confession is one of the Sacraments of Healing–and it seems like you both could benefit from some healing and grace. Prayers for you and her.

She isn’t. She hates the Catholic church, thinks it’s the devil’s own church. I can’t even talk to her about religion at all. I haven’t told her about my conversion because I’m afraid of her reaction - every time we’ve even gotten near the subject she’s lectured about what the Catholic church “really believes”. She tells me I’m naive and should listen to her instead of trusting my own research. She’s had friends that have told her all sorts of things about Catholicism - most of them uncatechized cradle Catholics. I’m afraid she might try to interfere if she knew.

 

[acadiANNA]

Compliment her. Tell her she looks nice - hair, dress. Compliment her cooking, yard work, anything. She will spend less time criticizing. As a poster said, give her unconditional love. Make a decision that no matter what she says or does, you will still love and respect her. It is a choice. You can dislike some things she says, or you can turn it into something positive. My mom used to say, “Are you going out like that?” I’d say, “Yes, Mom. It’s ok.” Then I gave her a hug. Of course, I was modestly dressed, maybe she didn’t like the color or style. Your mom may just be concerned about your being socially acceptable. On religion, just tell her you are seeking the truth. It’s your faith journey to God. Then make a decision that whatever she responds with, you will respect that opinion. It’s all about how you respond. You can’t get into the emotional part of it. This will take some work on your part. She may have some unresolved issues in her heart. She may not feel loved. Your mom helped you in your early years and look where you are now. She may be looking for some appreciation. I’m sure you show it, but she may need that affirmation more often from you. Is it possible to take her to dinner or shopping or visiting relatives? Make her dinner and bring it over sometime. My mom and I had a mutual loving and respectful relationship. That is how I wanted it for the wonderful person she was. And I can also say her entire life was not always easy. She went through some trying times. But I was right beside her all the way. I will be praying for you and your mom. God bless.

 

[PHSshamrock]

My mother’s been complaining that I don’t respect her, again. As I was thinking about it, I realized this is actually true. I don’t respect her. At the same time - I don’t particularly see why I ought to respect her. I don’t think she’s behaving in a way that’s particularly worthy of respect. And I’m not sure how to reply, here. I want to honor my mother as my mother, but I don’t know quite how to answer her here, or what to do. What do you think? What does it mean to respect a parent? Is it something required, or not?

Jesus respected his parents- even though he knew everything, and was a Divine person…

 

[DarkLight]

Jesus respected his parents- even though he knew everything, and was a Divine person…

The Blessed Mother also didn’t try to manipulate him and stand there lecturing on his every fault, I’m sure!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The Blessed Mother also didn’t try to manipulate him and stand there lecturing on his every fault, I’m sure!

And she was probably nothing like the OP’s mother, who sounds like a control freak with bad mood swings and serious emotional issues that she takes out on her daughter

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

*Love or not - she’s making my own health worse. I dread every visit because it’s a nightmare of having all my supposed faults thrown in my face. I agonize over every outfit just to try to find something she might not complain about, I carefully plan every conversation and multiple ways to get out of it if I have to talk about a touchy issue. And every visit I come home exhausted and unable to function for a few days.

I have mental health stuff that’s probably been going on for quite some time, but I couldn’t get them dealt with until I was on my own because she’d want to be involved and I couldn’t really say much of how I felt in front of her without getting in trouble. Any hint that I wasn’t happy with the way she acted was always punished.*

OP,

 

[SMHW]

is OP,

from what you have described it seems that your problem goes beyond what we can advise upon. Your mother sounds like a person who maybe has psychological problems. She is also making your health worse. This is serious stuff. Please, don’t think of this situation in terms of following the commandment about respecting parents, but rather in terms of dealing with a person who is very possibly in need of help and who is toxic. If you are in counceling or psychotherapy this relationship is something you should address.

As for this honoring your parents bussiness, here is an analogy. If a rabid dog attacked you would you run away and try to protect yourself from its attack, or would you sit there and wonder how the poor dog got rabies in the first place, and from some misplaced sense of charity towards the poor animal let it hurt you?

Even if your mother is not to blame for the way she is and the way she behaves, that is not a reason to let her damage you like that. Try to separate the two: you can love her as a mother but at the same time you can protect yourself from her. Look after yourself, and if that mens seeing less of her in order to keep your sanity, perhaps that is something to consider.

I second this!

One of the hardest things for us to face is that we can’t fix all problems. We tend to think there is a magic phrase, a special gift, a book, a factoid,or *something *that will finally heal a troubled relationship. That is almost never the case. If you throw mental illness into the picture the situation is even worse.

I think the odds of your mother having mental health issues are pretty great. When people say that sort of thing runs in families they mean biologically, not just environmentally.

Sadly, this means that she will most likely never be the mother that you deserve. You are going to have be a mother to yourself. And one the things that self-mother should be telling you is that some people aren’t good for you to be around.

You may just need to treat your mother like the tigers at the zoo. Tigers are beautiful animals and at times they can be affectionate. But tigers are dangerous. Even their affection can be dangerous to people. You are better off foregoing that tiger affection and admiring them from the other side of a secure barrier.