A
ahs
Guest
[From my blog.]
In response to THIS post on how praying to Mary brings our focus to Christ, [a fellow Christian blogger named Steve [last name omitted]] responded with a series of off-topic questions and some claims. Since he jumped off topic right off the bat, I decided to make his reply a separate post and will respond to it point-by-point here. His words will be in black, mine will be in blue.
IS PRAYING TO DEAD PEOPLE A SIN?
-This question is irrelevant to the topic, Steve [see link above to original post]. Catholics don’t pray to the dead, we pray to the living. Don’t you remember what Christ said when correcting the Scribes in Mk 12:26-27? He said “God is God of the LIVING, not of the dead”. If you are trying to suggest that praying to saints is the same as praying to the dead, you are making the same mistake as the Scribes. Or perhaps you are purposefully trying to mislead the readers to believe something false about the Catholic Church? You aren’t trying to do that are you Steve?
Is it a sin to pray to the Virgin Mary and other dead saints?
-Steve, this question makes the same mistake as the one above. Here you are assuming that those who passed on before us are “dead”. The problem here is that this line of thinking is contrary to Scripture. Christ corrected the Scribes in Mk 12:26-27, but Paul also tells us that those witnesses who have gone before us are like “a cloud of witnesses” for us as we run our race (Hb 12:1). In Mk 9:4, we see Jesus conversing with Elijah and Moses who are both fully alive, yet have passed from this world. In Lk 23:43, the good thief is assured by Christ Himself that he will be with Christ “this day”. Well, we know the thief died on the cross. Is the thief “dead” with Christ? Or is he “alive” with Christ in Paradise? If he is with Christ, who is God, then we must believe he is “alive” because God is God of the “living”. And what about the martyrs under the altar in Rev 6:9-11? Does John describe them as being “dead”? No, he records them as appealing for earthly vindication. We also have Lk 16:19-30 where the departed rich man intercedes for his brothers, and Rev 20:4 where the souls of the beheaded are seen alive, and Wisdom 3:1-6 where the souls of the just are in the hand of God…alive because God is God of the living, not of the dead. Steve, why do you portray the saints in Heaven in a way that contradicts God’s Word?
Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go Satan! For it is written,’ "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’ "
Praying to any person or anything is worship.
-Steve, why do you believe that “praying” is equal to “worship”? The Bible does not say that, so why do you believe it? The definition of “pray” is “to request or plea”, or “to implore or exhort”. Well, Paul “implores” and “exhorts” his audience in his Epistles to pray for him. Is Paul worshiping the Romans, Colossians, Ephesians or the Thessalonicans when he “requests” that they pray for him (cf. Rom 15:30, Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25, 2Thess 1:11, Eph 6:18-19, etc…)?
WORSHIP DEFINED: To revere, stressing the feeling of awe or devotion. Adoring reverence or regard.
Any worship of anyone or anything other than God is sin.
-We’ll agree that worship of anyone/thing other than God is a sin. But you should know that the word “worship” did not always mean what it does in modern English. The “worship” that was shown in Scriptures to be for God alone, that “adoration”, is call “latria”. This is distinguished from the type of “worship” or “honor” that people give to their peers when they say “yes, Sir”, or “I beg your pardon”, or “Your Honor [speaking to a Judge or member of Office]”, or when they bow before a King, etc… That form of worship, which today is known as “respect” and “reverence” was called “dulia”. In our modern tongue, we tend to not distinguish between the definitions anymore, but such was not always the case. So, if you want to use the modern sense, then no, Catholics do not worship any other than God. Is it your intention, Steve, to be intellectually honest and recognize this? Or so you intend to falsely portray Catholics as “worshiping” others because we pray to them as Paul did, even though you have no Biblical basis upon which to claim that prayer = worship?
The Virgin Mary is not God…
-No one claimed she was, so I’m not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that asking Mary to intercede for us is like calling her God? Again, to condemn Catholics for this, you also have to condemn Paul who asked for prayers from others. Is it your intention to condemn Paul for petitioning others for prayers and intercessions? If not, why would you condemn a Catholic for doing the exact same thing as what is modelded for us in Scripture?
(continued below…)
In response to THIS post on how praying to Mary brings our focus to Christ, [a fellow Christian blogger named Steve [last name omitted]] responded with a series of off-topic questions and some claims. Since he jumped off topic right off the bat, I decided to make his reply a separate post and will respond to it point-by-point here. His words will be in black, mine will be in blue.
IS PRAYING TO DEAD PEOPLE A SIN?
-This question is irrelevant to the topic, Steve [see link above to original post]. Catholics don’t pray to the dead, we pray to the living. Don’t you remember what Christ said when correcting the Scribes in Mk 12:26-27? He said “God is God of the LIVING, not of the dead”. If you are trying to suggest that praying to saints is the same as praying to the dead, you are making the same mistake as the Scribes. Or perhaps you are purposefully trying to mislead the readers to believe something false about the Catholic Church? You aren’t trying to do that are you Steve?
Is it a sin to pray to the Virgin Mary and other dead saints?
-Steve, this question makes the same mistake as the one above. Here you are assuming that those who passed on before us are “dead”. The problem here is that this line of thinking is contrary to Scripture. Christ corrected the Scribes in Mk 12:26-27, but Paul also tells us that those witnesses who have gone before us are like “a cloud of witnesses” for us as we run our race (Hb 12:1). In Mk 9:4, we see Jesus conversing with Elijah and Moses who are both fully alive, yet have passed from this world. In Lk 23:43, the good thief is assured by Christ Himself that he will be with Christ “this day”. Well, we know the thief died on the cross. Is the thief “dead” with Christ? Or is he “alive” with Christ in Paradise? If he is with Christ, who is God, then we must believe he is “alive” because God is God of the “living”. And what about the martyrs under the altar in Rev 6:9-11? Does John describe them as being “dead”? No, he records them as appealing for earthly vindication. We also have Lk 16:19-30 where the departed rich man intercedes for his brothers, and Rev 20:4 where the souls of the beheaded are seen alive, and Wisdom 3:1-6 where the souls of the just are in the hand of God…alive because God is God of the living, not of the dead. Steve, why do you portray the saints in Heaven in a way that contradicts God’s Word?
Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go Satan! For it is written,’ "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’ "
Praying to any person or anything is worship.
-Steve, why do you believe that “praying” is equal to “worship”? The Bible does not say that, so why do you believe it? The definition of “pray” is “to request or plea”, or “to implore or exhort”. Well, Paul “implores” and “exhorts” his audience in his Epistles to pray for him. Is Paul worshiping the Romans, Colossians, Ephesians or the Thessalonicans when he “requests” that they pray for him (cf. Rom 15:30, Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25, 2Thess 1:11, Eph 6:18-19, etc…)?
WORSHIP DEFINED: To revere, stressing the feeling of awe or devotion. Adoring reverence or regard.
Any worship of anyone or anything other than God is sin.
-We’ll agree that worship of anyone/thing other than God is a sin. But you should know that the word “worship” did not always mean what it does in modern English. The “worship” that was shown in Scriptures to be for God alone, that “adoration”, is call “latria”. This is distinguished from the type of “worship” or “honor” that people give to their peers when they say “yes, Sir”, or “I beg your pardon”, or “Your Honor [speaking to a Judge or member of Office]”, or when they bow before a King, etc… That form of worship, which today is known as “respect” and “reverence” was called “dulia”. In our modern tongue, we tend to not distinguish between the definitions anymore, but such was not always the case. So, if you want to use the modern sense, then no, Catholics do not worship any other than God. Is it your intention, Steve, to be intellectually honest and recognize this? Or so you intend to falsely portray Catholics as “worshiping” others because we pray to them as Paul did, even though you have no Biblical basis upon which to claim that prayer = worship?
The Virgin Mary is not God…
-No one claimed she was, so I’m not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that asking Mary to intercede for us is like calling her God? Again, to condemn Catholics for this, you also have to condemn Paul who asked for prayers from others. Is it your intention to condemn Paul for petitioning others for prayers and intercessions? If not, why would you condemn a Catholic for doing the exact same thing as what is modelded for us in Scripture?
(continued below…)
