Responding to an atheist

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seawind

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I had an interesting conversation with a man in the lounge of an airport last week. He was traveling home for a funeral for his father who had passed away. (This guy was in his late 50’s maybe so I’m sure his dad was older also.) Anyways, he was crying because he had just got off the phone with other family members and was saying how it was difficult to talk to them because he thought he was doing better and they just stirred the emotions back up. Well I was trying to gently console him and said many nice things and then finally said there is so much comfort that come through prayer and that your family will be kept in my prayers. Well his entire expression changed, his tears stopped, and he got a huge smirk on his face. He proceeded to tall me that he was an atheist who could never believe in a God who gave children epilepsy or down syndrome. He also said that God has a pretty messed up sense of humor to send cancer into this world which is ultimately what his father who had just passed had been suffering from for some years. It is always difficult to confront this particular argument as I too don’t always understand - but I did my best to say that so much love for others can come from suffering. We don’t understand everything about God but there is where faith comes into play. Well - this bridged us over to our next part of our conversation which was that he believed in Darwin’s theory and all the molecules over millions of years slowly merged together to form matter and eventually people. Well luckily - I had just finished reading Scott Hahn’s wonderful book called Reasons to Believe and remembered the wonderful analogy he had given. He described someone walking along a deserted beach and seeing something in the sand. It is an object that resembled something like a watch with working gears and mechanisms and smoothly polished. Well is it possible that the beating waves against the sand over time could possibly create this beautiful working mechanism. (I didn’t describe that verbatum from Dr. Hahn’s word:-) Anyways - I explained that to him and asked him what he thought. He said no - he didn’t believe that could happen. So then I asked about how humans - who with our amazing complexity to grow, digest food, retrieve nutrients, beating heart, eyes that can see, beautiful design, etc, etc, could just come to be and function so well. Well he reverted back to the Darwin theory but definitely seemed to have a hesitation:-)))))
So I am sharing this story because I believe that we are all charged with situations in which we must defend our faith and Lord. The conversation ended VERY well and he graciously thanked me for the interesting words and getting his mind off his dad who had passed. Hopefully I planted a seed!!!
I am even more anxious to better prepare myself now with answers - so I am asking you all for some good reasons to defend the part above about suffering, disease, illness, etc, - and how God allows that. Faith carries me through the uncertainty about things I can’t explain but others need to hear words. Does anyone have any advice???
 
Thanks for the story, and thank you for attempting to comfort that man.

I think that when talking with atheists and agnostics the two most important areas we need to be able to discuss are (1) the existence of evil in a world created by a perfectly good God, and (2) the common assumption that scientific advancement somehow disproves or explains away God.
 
It can be a very difficult topic to tackle, in my experience. The reason for that is that it very easily shifts from general to concrete, or from abstract to personal, without you noticing. So while you may be explaining the philosophical problem of evil in general, your friend might perceive “your Dad died because of…” which is not what a suffering person needs to hear.

The philosophical discussion asks “why” in a somewhat detached and “neutral” sense. Seeks to understand the rationale behind. It is the question of the philosophers and theologians.

While this is certainly an important question to address for the Catholic apologist, it is not necessarily what people need to hear. See Job’s discussion with his friends for an example of people giving “theological answers” to a man in an actual crisis. A man in a concentration camp has no need for a book on the theodice.

In an actual painful situation, it is much more valuable to know that God is there, that God will comfort us, and is sharing our suffering.

That’s my take on it, anyway. But judging from your friend’s reaction, you are handling it well.

I recommend C.S. Lewis’ “A Grief Observed”
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I have to say I was impressed by your story. It seems like you handled it pretty well. It is always hard to get through to a person in a limited span of time, but it looks that you had broken through some barrier that he had and touched something deep inside.

I really have no set advice just a 🙂 and I have to say my hat comes off to you.

God bless you.
 
If you want to help some-one, alway’s remember they could be a non-believer.

The first question , before you start “sharing” your views is “Do you have a faith at all, is that some kind of comfort to you?”.

If they say no, leave it.

I am floored(but really not actually surprised) that any believer, would use the grief of an athiest to push their own religious view. Show’s a complete lack of respect.

After his mind was cleared of the worst of his grief, he would have felt manipulated.
 
Dameedna said:
If you want to help some-one, alway’s remember they could be a non-believer.

The first question , before you start “sharing” your views is “Do you have a faith at all, is that some kind of comfort to you?”.

If they say no, leave it.

I am floored(but really not actually surprised) that any believer, would use the grief of an athiest to push their own religious view. Show’s a complete lack of respect.

After his mind was cleared of the worst of his grief, he would have felt manipulated.
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Actually, he didn’t try to push his religious view. He tried to comfort the guy and the guy went on the offensive pushing his own point and he defended his faith. There wasn’t a lack of respect, he did what his convictions led him to do, what his philosophical method thought taught. It would seem from his story that he didn’t act out of malice. In his belief system he was acting charitably. A lack of respect perhaps would have been to let the guy continue thinking that there is nothing else to support him in this time of need and allow him to fall into a sea of despair and self-pity.

🙂 But you are free to disagree:)

Pax tecum.
 
I absolutely did not take his suffering moment as a time to push any of my beliefs on him. He 100% started of the dialogue on religion. I even tried to fizzle it out but he kept it going. Like I said at the end - he expressed sincere gratitude to me that I was able to get his mind off his dad for awhile and focused on something else. I would never be that disrespectful to anyone in their moment of grief. I have lost people in my lifetime and know all too well the pain during the immediate hours after they have passed.
 
Your loving witness and compassion will go farther than any rational argument.

No matter how vehement or loud the argument against God, we all know He exists. Our anger and our selfishness and our arrogance only mask the Truth we feel in our souls.

Many life long atheists have converted, some waiting until near death.

God, who created us, loves us so much that He even allows us to deny He exists. It is our choice, yet He never abandons us, no matter what we do, He is always waiting for our return!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark
 
I heard this said before and it is true…“People don’t always remember what you said…but they always remember how you made them feel”. Many times it is how you conduct yourself than the words you use…remember who Jesus chose for His Apostles…I would definitely like to meet someone like you on a rainy day! 👍
 
seawind said:
He proceeded to tall me that he was an atheist who could never believe in a God who gave children epilepsy or down syndrome. He also said that God has a pretty messed up sense of humor to send cancer into this world which is ultimately what his father who had just passed had been suffering from for some years.
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I would have a hard time believing in a god that did those things as well. Fortunately, I’m Catholic.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Seawind, thanks for posting this interesting anecdote, which I, too, enjoyed reading. Just a very minor tangent, though: I realize Scott Hahn is held in high regard around here, but the watch thought experiment goes back at least to the eighteenth century, and is most commonly associated with William Paley.

Best regards.

CThomas
 
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