L
LittleFlower2021
Guest
Hello everyone,
I am a Catholic who has some really close friends who are Presbyterian. In an effort of mutual understanding, we have been having monthly discussions with some of these friends as we attempt to understand various theological differences. At their suggestion, we have been reading through J.I. Packer’s “Knowing God” as a conversation starter.
My friends were understandably curious about why Catholics have a Crucifix behind the altar in every church (see Chapter 4). Citing Exodus 20:4-6, they contend that to make any image of God is graven and should not be worshipped.
I then explained that if that were the correct interpretation of the passage, then God in other parts of the Old Testament would appear to contradict his own commandment as He commands Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 25:18-20) as well as Cherubim inside the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 6:23-28). Even bringing up Numbers 21:6-9 and how not only did God command the creation of the bronze serpent but also the need for Israelites to look into its eyes to be cured (and therefore showing that an “image” can have ritual significance without taking away from worship due to God alone), my friends responded that all those examples merely show that God still does not command images of himself.
I then tried to explain that while God the Father might not be represented in images for worship in the Old Testament, God the Son is still full human and full divine. Therefore, like making images of other humans (such as the saints or even other historical figures), there appears no prohibition on depicting the incarnate Word’s human characteristics. They responded that a crucifix might represent Jesus’ humanity but any depiction of Him hides his divinity (similar to Packer’s argument), and therefore is a false image of God that should not be worshipped.
When I then explained that Catholics—for that reason—do not worship any picture nor statue that depicts Jesus, my friends asked why the crucifix could not be outside the church? After all, even if a good Catholic/Christian might know that crucifix isn’t obviously an accurate depiction of Christ, wouldn’t it lead to the “near temptation to sin” as people might find this “false” representation as it hides Christ’s divinity even if it depicts his humanity for those not familiar with a proper catechesis?
I’m trying to figure out how best to respond to this question. It seems that my friends seem otherwise okay with images of Christ or even the crucifix so long as it’s not in a church were it could be accidentally worshipped as a depiction of Christ’s divinity. I understand there’s quite a difference between Catholic’s definitions of worship and veneration and that a Protestant and I’ve tried to explain this to them as well.
Is there any New Testament scriptural support or church fathers to consort to help my friends and I work through this topic? I’m familiar with Second Council of Nicaea’s (c. 787 AD) stance on rejection iconoclast heresy but I’m not sure where it best addresses how we are to use religious imagery inside a church (specifically a crucifix)?
I am a Catholic who has some really close friends who are Presbyterian. In an effort of mutual understanding, we have been having monthly discussions with some of these friends as we attempt to understand various theological differences. At their suggestion, we have been reading through J.I. Packer’s “Knowing God” as a conversation starter.
My friends were understandably curious about why Catholics have a Crucifix behind the altar in every church (see Chapter 4). Citing Exodus 20:4-6, they contend that to make any image of God is graven and should not be worshipped.
I then explained that if that were the correct interpretation of the passage, then God in other parts of the Old Testament would appear to contradict his own commandment as He commands Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 25:18-20) as well as Cherubim inside the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 6:23-28). Even bringing up Numbers 21:6-9 and how not only did God command the creation of the bronze serpent but also the need for Israelites to look into its eyes to be cured (and therefore showing that an “image” can have ritual significance without taking away from worship due to God alone), my friends responded that all those examples merely show that God still does not command images of himself.
I then tried to explain that while God the Father might not be represented in images for worship in the Old Testament, God the Son is still full human and full divine. Therefore, like making images of other humans (such as the saints or even other historical figures), there appears no prohibition on depicting the incarnate Word’s human characteristics. They responded that a crucifix might represent Jesus’ humanity but any depiction of Him hides his divinity (similar to Packer’s argument), and therefore is a false image of God that should not be worshipped.
When I then explained that Catholics—for that reason—do not worship any picture nor statue that depicts Jesus, my friends asked why the crucifix could not be outside the church? After all, even if a good Catholic/Christian might know that crucifix isn’t obviously an accurate depiction of Christ, wouldn’t it lead to the “near temptation to sin” as people might find this “false” representation as it hides Christ’s divinity even if it depicts his humanity for those not familiar with a proper catechesis?
I’m trying to figure out how best to respond to this question. It seems that my friends seem otherwise okay with images of Christ or even the crucifix so long as it’s not in a church were it could be accidentally worshipped as a depiction of Christ’s divinity. I understand there’s quite a difference between Catholic’s definitions of worship and veneration and that a Protestant and I’ve tried to explain this to them as well.
Is there any New Testament scriptural support or church fathers to consort to help my friends and I work through this topic? I’m familiar with Second Council of Nicaea’s (c. 787 AD) stance on rejection iconoclast heresy but I’m not sure where it best addresses how we are to use religious imagery inside a church (specifically a crucifix)?
Last edited:
