Responding to the Pope's statement about gun manufacturers

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Lector4Christ

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I’m wondering if someone can help me respond to a non-Catholic, who was warming up to the Catholic faith until reading the pope’s statement about gun manufacturers here:

outdoorhub.com/news/2015/06/22/pope-firearm-manufacturers-cant-call-christian/

Now, this person (who sells guns intended for hunting, law enforcement and personal protection) believes that according to the Pope, he cannot be a Catholic or even a Christian.

Again–this person is not a gun manufacturer, but a dealer.

Anybody know what the Pope actually said? Interpretation?

Most important: how to respond?

Thanks!
 
I don’t think the Pope was referring to people working the assembly line as much as he was referring to the CEOs and board members who manufacture weapons for profit, not really caring whose hands they fall into.

Does this person care about who gets the guns he sells? Would he sell to someone he knew was involved in drug trade? Or someone, who he believed, might use the gun to hurt other people? If not, I don’t think the Pope was talking to him.
 
Okay, if we put all the gun manufacturers out of business, where will law enforcement and military units get their weapons? Maybe they could carry knives or baseball bats? Or buy the guns from atheist manufacturers in China, since they’re not Christians anyway!

I’m hoping the Pope was misquoted.
 
It has become clear that Pope Francis sometimes speaks to reporters in informal settings without thinking through the implications of what he is saying. We should pray for him, and the Church, that he discerns his public words a little better.
 
Lector4Christ said:
I’m wondering if someone can help me respond to a non-Catholic, who was warming up to the Catholic faith until reading the pope’s statement about gun manufacturers here:

outdoorhub.com/news/2015/06/22/pope-firearm-manufacturers-cant-call-christian/

Now, this person (who sells guns intended for hunting, law enforcement and personal protection) believes that according to the Pope, he cannot be a Catholic or even a Christian.

Again–this person is not a gun manufacturer, but a dealer.

Anybody know what the Pope actually said? Interpretation?

Most important: how to respond?

Thanks!
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Did you ever watch the first Iron Man movie? In the movie, Tony Stark was upset and ashamed after finding out that his weapons were in the hands of terrorists. He then went on a mission to fix the situation. While Obadiah Stane had no issues selling weapons to the terrorists and even put a hit on Tony’s life.

I strongly believe that Pope Francis’ message was meant for all the weapons manufactures who sell to ISIS, Iran, and other terrorists & criminals. Many weapons manufactures / dealers (esp in the US) only sell to people who would use them for just reasons.

But there are people who intend to arm evil, or don’t take responsibility for their weapons falling into the wrong hands because they are making money.

That’s the context of what the Pope is referring to. Not people who make and sell guns for hunting or the police. But people who make and sell guns for criminals and terrorists.
Those are the people the Pope is referring to.
 
phil19034 said:
I strongly believe that Pope Francis’ message was meant for all the weapons manufactures who sell to ISIS, Iran, and other terrorists & criminals. Many weapons manufactures / dealers (esp in the US) only sell to people who would use them for just reasons.

But there are people who intend to arm evil, or don’t take responsibility for their weapons falling into the wrong hands because they are making money.

That’s the context of what the Pope is referring to. Not people who make and sell guns for hunting or the police. But people who make and sell guns for criminals and terrorists.
Those are the people the Pope is referring to.
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You are right. He was specifically addressing the arms trade and those who manufacture the weapons and invest in that. This is what he said…

“There’s this hypocrisy of speaking about peace and manufacturing arms, no less than selling weapons to this (person) who’s in war with that one, and to that (person) who’s in war with this one!”

religionnews.com/2015/06/22/pope-francis-goes-off-script-visit-see-shroud-turin/
 
Thanks to all of you for some intelligent well grounded remarks.

Of course, since this person is a bit of a “debater,” it would also be great if the Vatican (or anyone else, for that matter) would supplement this a bit further (with complete quotes and followup questions that underscore the idea that the Pope was talking about the “bad guys.”)

Thanks again!
 
PaulfromIowa said:
It has become clear that Pope Francis sometimes speaks to reporters in informal settings without thinking through the implications of what he is saying. We should pray for him, and the Church, that he discerns his public words a little better.
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👍 🎉
 
I think the Pope should be taken at his word in the most absolute and literal sense possible.

Yes, it might make some “Christians” uncomfortable to confront themselves, but this is entirely positive, and is central to the Gospels.

Poor Francis! Soon the Catholic Press will have to begin issuing trigger warnings whenever he opens his mouth!:rolleyes:
 
Exiled_Child said:
I think the Pope should be taken at his word in the most absolute and literal sense possible.

Yes, it might make some “Christians” uncomfortable to confront themselves, but this is entirely positive, and is central to the Gospels.

Poor Francis! Soon the Catholic Press will have to begin issuing trigger warnings whenever he opens his mouth!:rolleyes:
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So, then I imagine you have a good answer for those of us who’ve asked how the police, military, and the Pope’s security people and Swiss Guard will obtain guns, if all gun manufacturers are put out of business (?)
 
triumphguy said:
Don’t blame the pope for the misinterpretation of the media.
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Many of us read the transcript. He called weapons manufacturers who called themselves Christians hypocrites, and then questioned why the allies did not bomb rail lines to save Jews.

It was an incoherent mess. He had an off day is all I can imagine.
 
captainrick said:
So, then I imagine you have a good answer for those of us who’ve asked how the police, military, and the Pope’s security people and Swiss Guard will obtain guns, if all gun manufacturers are put out of business (?)
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How many armaments manufacturers self-identify as Christian, I wonder?🤷 If there is some tiny number Christian gun manufacturers, which I find hard to imagine, their vanishing wouldn’t effect the global arms trade in the slightest. But you’re right that the issue is skirting hypocrisy, owing to guns being a necessary evil in some instances.

I’m reminded of the P.D. Ouspensky novelette, The Inventor, which I highly recommend, non-Catholic though it surely is.

holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Talks-With-a-Devil.pdf
 
The Pope is only infallable when speaking on matters of faith and morals as the head of the church.

It would appear he was giving his personal opinion. And in this case, it seems like he just did not do a good job.
 
But I don’t understand what people are so upset about. Are people afraid that the entire world will become Christian, and therefore arms manufacturers will go extinct? Because if the planet’s entire populace suddenly decided to convert to Christianity, there would be no need for armaments in the first place. I think Francis was just pointing out that Catholics can and should be in the world, but that doesn’t mean we have to take a hand in every last filthy detail. There really is something to be said for the notion of Christians being in, but not of the world.

Oh, and I would love it if someone actually read Ouspensky’s brilliant short story I linked to up above. It’s fantastic and worthy of anyone’s time.
 
Gee, the propaganda media took what Pope Francis out of context to push an agenda. No surprise there.
 
Exiled_Child said:
But I don’t understand what people are so upset about. Are people afraid that the entire world will become Christian, and therefore arms manufacturers will go extinct? Because if the planet’s entire populace suddenly decided to convert to Christianity, there would be no need for armaments in the first place. I think Francis was just pointing out that Catholics can and should be in the world, but that doesn’t mean we have to take a hand in every last filthy detail. There really is something to be said for the notion of Christians being in, but not of the world.

Oh, and I would love it if someone actually read Ouspensky’s brilliant short story I linked to up above. It’s fantastic and worthy of anyone’s time.
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No, people are not afraid of the world turning Christian. I, myself would love to see ISIS and others turn away from their bloody ways. I’m sure people would share the same view as I.

What people are objecting to, is that if you work for say Lockheed or Boeing, or other defense contractor, as an engineer, clerk, accountant, etc. then you are not a Catholic or a Christian. Are these people now excommunicated?
 
Can anyone post the sentence spoken that says that gun manufacturers can’t call themselves Christians? I’ve seen a broken interpretation of what was said but haven’t seen this particular quote. What I did read made perfect sense though. If people in the weapons manufacturing industry are motivated in their trade by the desire to arm warmongering groups… how could that be part of Christs message of peace?
 
Exiled_Child said:
But I don’t understand what people are so upset about. Are people afraid that the entire world will become Christian, and therefore arms manufacturers will go extinct? Because if the planet’s entire populace suddenly decided to convert to Christianity, there would be no need for armaments in the first place. I think Francis was just pointing out that Catholics can and should be in the world, but that doesn’t mean we have to take a hand in every last filthy detail. There really is something to be said for the notion of Christians being in, but not of the world.

Oh, and I would love it if someone actually read Ouspensky’s brilliant short story I linked to up above. It’s fantastic and worthy of anyone’s time.
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If the entire world converted to Christianity, that would include Jewish people,and, depending on your end-times scenario beliefs, would be followed by Christ’s return, so a LOT more manufacturers would go extinct.

In the meantime, there would still be a need to hunt and protect against wild animals.

Of course, under other end times scenarios, there would be a period of tribulation or chastisement, so there would still be some evil people in the world to protect ourselves against.

And let’s not forget that even if the entire world converted to Christianity, we still would have to be prepared in case the Klingons or Romulans tried to invade.
 
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