Responding to the Psalms

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At Mass today instead of responding to the psalms, the folk group sung the psalm as a hymn with everyone joining in.

I thought the point of a responsorial psalm was to respond to the psalms read out by the reader (who actually sat down in the congregation) when they started to sing.

I wouldn’t mind if the reader or choir sung the psalms and the congregation sung the responses, but to have the whole congregation sing the lot did not seem right some how.

Is this a new thing and is it legal?

Yours in the Spirit

Pious.
 
This is something I asked my priest about. With RS admonishing against changing the words of the scripture readings, does this extend to the words of the Psalm?

Some churches I have been to sing a seasonal Psalm or something else from a psaltry. My priest told me he did not know the answer, but prefered to stick to the Psalm as it appears in the missalette, verbatim. That is the only way I sing a Psalm.
 
Here is what the new GIRM says.
  1. After the first reading comes the responsorial Psalm, which is an integral part of the Liturgy of the Word and holds great liturgical and pastoral importance, because it fosters meditation on the word of God.
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The responsorial Psalm should correspond to each reading and should, as a rule, be taken from the Lectionary.
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It is preferable that the responsorial Psalm be sung, at least as far as the people’s response is concerned. Hence, the psalmist, or the cantor of the Psalm, sings the verses of the Psalm from the ambo or another suitable place. The entire congregation remains seated and listens but, as a rule, takes part by singing the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through without a response. In order, however, that the people may be able to sing the Psalm response more readily, texts of some responses and Psalms have been chosen for the various seasons of the year or for the various categories of Saints. These may be used in place of the text corresponding to the reading whenever the Psalm is sung. If the Psalm cannot be sung, then it should be recited in such a way that it is particularly suited to fostering meditation on the word of God.
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In the dioceses of the United States of America, the following may also be sung in place of the Psalm assigned in the Lectionary for Mass: either the proper or seasonal antiphon and Psalm from the Lectionary, as found either in the Roman Gradual or Simple Gradual or in another musical setting; or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of the psalms and antiphons, including psalms arranged in metrical form, providing that they have been approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the responsorial Psalm.
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Pious:
At Mass today instead of responding to the psalms, the folk group sung the psalm as a hymn with everyone joining in.

I thought the point of a responsorial psalm was to respond to the psalms read out by the reader (who actually sat down in the congregation) when they started to sing.

I wouldn’t mind if the reader or choir sung the psalms and the congregation sung the responses, but to have the whole congregation sing the lot did not seem right some how.

Is this a new thing and is it legal?

Yours in the Spirit

Pious.
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That option has been around for years.

Options for the Responsorial Psalm include cantor or choir only; cantor or choir sing verses with responses by the congregation; and cantor or choir sing together with the congregation.

Here is the section from the current GIRM.
*
The Responsorial Psalm
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  1. After the first reading comes the responsorial Psalm, which is an integral part of the Liturgy of the Word and holds great liturgical and pastoral importance, because it fosters meditation on the word of God.
The responsorial Psalm should correspond to each reading and should, as a rule, be taken from the Lectionary.

It is preferable that the responsorial Psalm be sung, at least as far as the people’s response is concerned. Hence, the psalmist, or the cantor of the Psalm, sings the verses of the Psalm from the ambo or another suitable place. The entire congregation remains seated and listens but, as a rule, takes part by singing the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through without a response. In order, however, that the people may be able to sing the Psalm response more readily, texts of some responses and Psalms have been chosen for the various seasons of the year or for the various categories of Saints. These may be used in place of the text corresponding to the reading whenever the Psalm is sung. If the Psalm cannot be sung, then it should be recited in such a way that it is particularly suited to fostering meditation on the word of God.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, the following may also be sung in place of the Psalm assigned in the Lectionary for Mass: either the proper or seasonal antiphon and Psalm from the *Lectionary, *as found either in the *Roman Gradual *or *Simple Gradual or in another musical setting; or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of the psalms and antiphons, including psalms arranged in metrical form, providing that they have been approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the responsorial Psalm.

Peace,
L
 
So anything substituted must have USCCB approval. One can’t just substitute another favorite Psalm without it. Is that the way you see it?
 
Yes, that’s how I see it but I have not yet found out how we find what they have or have not approved?
 
Yes, but I have not yet been able to determine what they have and have not approved or where to find it. Perhaps some Church liturgists here might know.
 
Going back to the time of King David, the Psalms were always ment to be sung and were composed as songs. At a recent gathering of hundreds of those who minister in their parishes, we sang most of morning prayer. A famous saint said that when you sing your praises to God, you pray twice.

God bless,
Deacon Tony SFO
 
I think it’s important to remember that that excerpt from the GIRM explicitly forbade the substitution of songs or hymns for the psalm, which is a practice I often encounter with one of our priests in the dorm.
 
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pnewton:
So anything substituted must have USCCB approval. One can’t just substitute another favorite Psalm without it. Is that the way you see it?
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Or the Diocesan Bishop.

But such a decision cannot be made at the Parish level by anyone.

( Our music directory has recently had the choir chant the Psalms through. It is beautiful )
 
Ah, the liturgical police are still with us. I suspect that if you read the notes in your missalette, you would have had the answer.
 
Ah, the liturgical police are still with us. I suspect that if you read the notes in your missalette, you would have had the answer
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I don’t know to whom your remark is addressed but …
  1. Not all parishes use the same Missalettes
  2. Not all people have their own Missalettes
  3. And believe it or not, there are some parishes who do not hand out missalettes but only song sheets because they want people to “listen and not read”.
I thought it was a valid question deserving a valid answer and not deserving sarcasm and frankly do not see the “liturgical police” connection you vaguely reference???
 
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otm:
Ah, the liturgical police are still with us.
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😉 Well put.

I find it interesting that not all “Psalm Responses” come from the book of Psalms. Ocassionaly, you will see one that refers to Jesus.

What is most important is that we worship God corporately. That means together, as a single community. The text of Scripture must NEVER be changed in any way. It is the word of God and, therefore, cannot be improved upon.

Whether the congregation sings just the response or the entire song in less important than that the congregation sing together, in a spirit of worship. God sees what is in our hearts.

As a worship leader, I require that all liturgical music follow the three S’s:

A song must be Simple: Don’r use anything that requires months of rehearsal for the congregation to learn.
A song must be Singable: Don’t use something that only a highly trained vocalist can sing.
A song must be Scriptural: Preferably, the words come from Scripture, but, if not, they must be in line with Scripture. Of course, the Responsorial Psalm must always come from Scripture.

Just my $0.02
 
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deogratias:
I don’t know to whom your remark is addressed but …
  1. Not all parishes use the same Missalettes
  2. Not all people have their own Missalettes
  3. And believe it or not, there are some parishes who do not hand out missalettes but only song sheets because they want people to “listen and not read”.
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Points 1 and 2: yep.

Point 3: The police come in all stripes. Granted that the pointy headed liberals in the bastions of academia get it right once in awhile (there are different learning styles, Virginia!) while they foist on us yet another theory of learning, it seems that their fellow-travelers are incapable of applying that to the poor simpletons in the pew (re: the Word must be Proclaimed! Ergo, one Must Listen, Not Read!).
deogratis:
I thought it was a valid question deserving a valid answer and not deserving sarcasm and frankly do not see the “liturgical police” connection you vaguely reference???
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Well, at least you picked up on the sarcasm. I was referencing the question that started this all:
 
Oops; I got cut off.

Deogratias: I was referencing the first question: “Is this legal?”.

If people who persist is questioning the legality of every little thing in the Liturgy spent half that much time trying to deal with the question of abortions (which starts with sex outside of marriage), we might see some significant changes.

If the same group spent 1/10th of that time in prayer for political leaders, we might see some change of heart on moral issues in the public forum.

Altogether too much of what they fuss about is the equivalent of not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, as opposed to going through a school zone at 60 mph when children are present. Both are wrong; but there’s a tremendous difference between the two.

Inherent in the question “is it legal?” is that somehow this is an abuse. But abuse implies intent; too much of what is labeled “abuse” is not intentional, but rather a mistake or misinformation. I am truly tired of the nitpicking that goes on when we have issues before us as Catholics in our country and the world involving life and death. And I don’t need a lecture on incremntalism. Most people are trying to do what is right, and gradually the egregious errors are being corrected, if for no other reason than that the liberals are aging and dying off, and noone is stepping in to replace them.

Was the question about how we sing the Psalms valid? I do not dispute that in the least. But there are many other ways of asking it without falling back on the “legal” routine. Try, “I’ve never seen this before; is it new?” Or, “This is what we did and it seemed strange; how do you do it?”
 
Was the question about how we sing the Psalms valid? I do not dispute that in the least. But there are many other ways of asking it without falling back on the “legal” routine. Try, “I’ve never seen this before; is it new?” Or, “This is what we did and it seemed strange; how do you do it?”
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I concur the written verbal skills of many forum members could stand improvement but that does not rule out their sincerity.

Often people have problems conveying what they really mean and equally frequent, if not more, is that many people can’t read what is actually written but what they “think” the message says. I suppose that happens even more often with oral communication except there is the advantage of body language to assist if one pays attention.

Also we could probably always be more tactful and less abrupt in our responses than we are.

So, yes there are other options the poster could have used such as “is this appropriate”, or “should I be concerned”, etc. etc. We all have the right to a proper liturgy and with so much discussion about this in the forum, it is natural that one wants to know where they stand when they encounter a deviation from the norm, don’t you think?
 
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deogratias:
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I concur the written verbal skills of many forum members could stand improvement but that does not rule out their sincerity.

Often people have problems conveying what they really mean and equally frequent, if not more, is that many people can’t read what is actually written but what they “think” the message says. I suppose that happens even more often with oral communication except there is the advantage of body language to assist if one pays attention.

Also we could probably always be more tactful and less abrupt in our responses than we are.

So, yes there are other options the poster could have used such as “is this appropriate”, or “should I be concerned”, etc. etc. We all have the right to a proper liturgy and with so much discussion about this in the forum, it is natural that one wants to know where they stand when they encounter a deviation from the norm, don’t you think?
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When I am in Mass, I am not following along with the GIRM mentally open. When I am singing the Psalms (as this is the example), or I am listening to them being sung, I am listening to the words and trying to pray them; I am reflecting on what they say and trying to apply them to my life. I would probably miss entirely the issue that they were sung entirely by the choir; or I might wish that I was singing the response line. But I would not be applying a GIRM test to it (and I have read the GIRM; I am on the liturgy committee in my parish). I do not follow along at Mass with the GIRM open, physically or mentally. My focus in Mass is on Christ, not the rubrics. My parish is fairly middle of the road; we follow the rubrics. I have been to Mass where there have been significant violations (a woman gave the homily while the priest sat; the EMHCs all elevated the Host, etc). It was jarring, and I noted it and then let it pass. I was there for and because of Christ. Do you and I have a right to a proper liturgy? Yes, but I prefer to focus on my responsibilities, not my rights. If I take care of my responsibilites, the rights generally will take care of themselves.
 
Thank you for all the responses concerning my question, just to clarify I am not on the look out for liturgical abuse and may be I could have used a better word than legal (but English literature is not my best at times), I just wanted to know if it was allowed as I have never come across it before and it was something different from our normal psalm responses. The reason I questioned it was because normally any alternative in the service is mentioned prior by one of the music directors, but this time there was no mentioning and as I do not use a Missalette Myself, I just follow the service by ear, so I would not have noticed any thing in there regarding a different response.

So my apologies if my question caused anger and upset to some people and if it was a bad post then all people had to do was PM me or e mail me and point out my mistake or even report me to a moderator and inform them of my post.

Basically the question was answered in the first response and I was happy with that, I suppose I could of have asked an apologist, but I thought this was a Catholic answers site and sought to find the answer from the many devout and knowledgeable Catholics on this forum.

Again my sincere apologies.

Yours in the Spirit

Pious.
 
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