Response to a non-viable pregnancy

[Binary]

Please keep my sister and her husband in your prayers. A few days ago they went to get a sonogram to determine the sex of their baby, and (I don’t have the exact details) tests revealed that the baby does not have a brain, or at least, so little brain matter that there is no possibility that it could survive outside the womb.

Sometime this week my sister is planning on having an operation to remove the fetus. I can’t imagine that this would qualify as an abortion or would otherwise be immoral. I doubt my sister cares much for what the church teaches anymore, but if she asks me about it, I’d like to give her an intelligent response on why she was justified in doing what she did. Can anyone help me out?

 

[Sharen]

My deepest sympathy goes out to your family. The condition is called anacephally and yes, the baby will not survive long after birth, if at all. A Catholic friend of mine went thru the same thing a few years ago and had an abortion at 21 weeks. I know that you were hoping to be told that this isn’t considered abortion, but it is. What a heart breaking situation! My friend was advised to carry the child to term and to have the baby baptized and given a proper burial. My prayers go out to your sister at this difficult time.

 

[Binary]

Allow me to check my understanding. If my sister doesn’t carry her dead infant to term ~5 months from now and deliver it just to bury it, she will be excommunicated? She mentioned that he kicks even though he doesn’t have a brain. How about me? Will I be excommunicated for refusing to tell my sister that she has a moral obligation to endure 5 months of carrying her dead child around? Let’s play this out a little:
“Oh, congratulations on being pregnant! You must be so excited.”
“Not really. My child isn’t technically alive, but I’m carrying his corpse in my womb for the next few months so I don’t burn in hell.”

I am not entirely unfamiliar with Catholic theology, and it’s toughest lessons have always simultaneously provided succor and hope. But this… this is just insane. What’s the take away here? Don’t get a sonogram and just kind of hope that things work out for the best?

 

[Bookcat]

Please call the National Bioethics Center

ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity//

number at the bottom of the site…

ask for an ethicist…they will help determine what can be done mortally.

They are who the Catholic Answers staff would send you to.

 

[1ke]

Sometime this week my sister is planning on having an operation to remove the fetus. I can’t imagine that this would qualify as an abortion or would otherwise be immoral.

Yes, that is exactly what it is-- an abortion.

This is a LIVING baby. The plan is to kill the baby. That is abortion.

Yes, it is a grave wrong. Yes, the Church teaches this is wrong.

I doubt my sister cares much for what the church teaches anymore, but if she asks me about it, I’d like to give her an intelligent response on why she was justified in doing what she did. Can anyone help me out?

Then pray for her.

It is wrong to kill this child. Yes, they will be grieving if the child is indeed only lives a short while after birth due to his/her condition. But, this child is a person, and they must be respected and treated with dignity and allowed to live and die a natural death. Killing thid child will not bring peace. Their child can bring them joy even if only for a short time.

I suggest resources from Priests for Life.

 

[Binary]

Yes, that is exactly what it is-- an abortion.

This is a LIVING baby. The plan is to kill the baby. That is abortion.

Yes, it is a grave wrong. Yes, the Church teaches this is wrong.

Then pray for her.

It is wrong to kill this child. Yes, they will be grieving if the child is indeed only lives a short while after birth due to his/her condition. But, this child is a person, and they must be respected and treated with dignity and allowed to live and die a natural death. Killing thid child will not bring peace. Their child can bring them joy even if only for a short time.

I suggest resources from Priests for Life.

This child meets the national catholic bioethic’s definition of “brain death.” In what sense is he alive?

 

[Bookcat]

This child meets the national catholic bioethic’s definition of “brain death.” In what sense is he alive?

Give an ethicist at the National Catholic Biocenter a call with the specifics (little brain?)…I would have a direct conversation with an ethicist there in regards to this serious and sad event…

 

[1ke]

Allow me to check my understanding. If my sister doesn’t carry her dead infant to term ~5 months from now and deliver it just to bury it, she will be excommunicated?

If the child is actually dead, then of course it must be removed.

But, it doesn’t sound like the child is dead from your post. From what you described this is a LIVING child that they will “terminate.” a.k.a. procure an abortion.

If your sister procures an abortion knowing it is wrong and knowing that the penalty is excommunication, then yes she would incur that penalty.

She mentioned that he kicks even though he doesn’t have a brain. How about me? Will I be excommunicated for refusing to tell my sister that she has a moral obligation to endure 5 months of carrying her dead child around?

The child is NOT dead. The child is alive.

You will have moral culpability. No, you do not incur a penalty of excommunication unless you are directly involved in the abortion.

From the Catechism:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

Let’s play this out a little:
“Oh, congratulations on being pregnant! You must be so excited.”
“Not really. My child isn’t technically alive, but I’m carrying his corpse in my womb for the next few months so I don’t burn in hell.”

Oh the melodrama.

However, that is not at all the situation. The baby is not a corpse. The child is alive. The child has all the dignity and worth of every other child of God.

There are many couples who have been through this, and there is support and compassion available for your sister.

Abortion is a terrible crime against God and against the child.

I am not entirely unfamiliar with Catholic theology, and it’s toughest lessons have always simultaneously provided succor and hope. But this… this is just insane. What’s the take away here? Don’t get a sonogram and just kind of hope that things work out for the best?

All life is precious, even those that many believe unworthy of life. All life is precious, even those that aren’t perfect and that may not live long. All life is precious, even when doctors tell us we should kill our own children.

 

[1ke]

This child meets the national catholic bioethic’s definition of “brain death.” In what sense is he alive?

I don’t believe it does. The child is alive and its **own **heart is beating and sustaining it. In the NCBC site, the definition includes pulminary and respiratory circulation being maintained only artificially, not on their own.

Again, it is definitely worthwhile to contact the Center to discuss the specific situation.

If the child is alive, one may not kill it. That is murder.

 

[1ke]

My friend was advised to carry the child to term and to have the baby baptized and given a proper burial. My prayers go out to your sister at this difficult time.

And yes, this child deserves a proper baptism and burial, not to be dismembered and killed.

anencephalie-info.org/e/index.php

 

[Binary]

1ke, please leave this thread. Even if you are correct, I would rather be advised by someone with a modicum of tact and decency.

 

[Bookcat]

I am very sorry for this terrible suffering in your family.

I did find some resources on this (if it is an anecephalic infant as it seems)

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=542 (includes commentary from The Committee of Doctrine of the US National Conference of Bishops)

In fact it look that the article itself is as NCCB as author

ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=482&storyid1277=80&ncs1277=3

 

[Barbkw]

On a flip side to this topic - the sanctity of human life; when my Dad was recovering from his stroke in bedside care at a nursing home, there were multiple number of people with minimal brain function and multiple physical disabilities.

Sanctity of life, from the womb to the tomb - as Mother Teresa was known to have said.

It’s difficult, it isn’t easy to pass through, it’s heartbreaking, it’s part of being human.

 

[Binary]

On a flip side to this topic - the sanctity of human life; when my Dad was recovering from his stroke in bedside care at a nursing home, there were multiple number of people with minimal brain function and multiple physical disabilities.

Sanctity of life, from the womb to the tomb - as Mother Teresa was known to have said.

It’s difficult, it isn’t easy to pass through, it’s heartbreaking, it’s part of being human.

Thank you for the resources. I’m going to go to mass now and talk to a priest, and probably call the NCBC.

EDIT: wait, bookcat provided the resources.

Barb, I don’t need a lesson on human dignity. My mother was one of those people with minimal brain functions, before she died last year.

 

[Bookcat]

Thank you for the resources. I’m going to go to mass now and talk to a priest, and probably call the NCBC.

Please see the links I linked above…especially the one from the US. Conference of Bishops (extensive treatment)

With prayers

 

[Barbkw]

Thank you for the resources. I’m going to go to mass now and talk to a priest, and probably call the NCBC.

EDIT: wait, bookcat provided the resources.

Barb, I don’t need a lesson on human dignity. My mother was one of those people with minimal brain functions, before she died last year.

My Mom passed away under the same circumstances.

 

[Binary]

Please see the links I linked above…especially the one from the US. Conference of Bishops (extensive treatment)

With prayers

I did, and it was very instructional. Speaking with the priest was also conciliatory and helpful. Thank you.

 

[LeahInancsi]

The condition is called anacephally and yes, the baby will not survive long after birth, if at all.

If this baby takes one breath a birth, then it is alive now. How will anyone know whether or not it will take that one breath until nature takes its course and the child is born? At this time, the baby is surviving off of the mother. If any action is taken in the meantime, it would amount to abortion.

How am I wrong?

 

[Barbkw]

morninglightministry.org/mlmhopeinturmoil/

 

[wanner47]

Please encourage your family to check out benotafraid.net/ for stories of other families in this exact situation. These families made the brave, wonderful choice to carry and love their babies as long as possible, both in and out of the womb.

It sounds like your niece/nephew has been diagnosed with Anencephaly. Here are the specific stories relating to that condition:

benotafraid.net/stories.asp?filter=Anencephaly

Here is the blog of a woman whose daughter was diagnosed with anencephaly at 19 weeks gestation:

babyfaithhope.blogspot.com

This mother carried to term and delivered her daughter, who lived for an amazing 3 months and 4 days before she peacefully passed away in her mother’s loving arms. Pretty amazing for a baby with “no brain,” isn’t it?