Responses to criticisms of Mother Teresa

[underacloud]

I see valid criticism as a contribution.

Sarah x

If you have a particular expertise than can help in the aid effort, then offering your time and advice is certainly a contribution.

If you aren’t prepared to help, but instead wish to criticise those who do, most people would tell you to but out.

 

[atheistgirl]

If you have a particular expertise than can help in the aid effort, then offering your time and advice is certainly a contribution.

If you aren’t prepared to help, but instead wish to criticise those who do, most people would tell you to but out.

Very limited thinking.

We’ve made some of the best improvements on some of our products and services by listening to people who don’t use them.

Sarah x

 

[ColdComfort]

Nobody on their right mind would question the dedication and selfless sanctity of these sisters. (In fact, Hitchens himself did not). The problem is something else. In a nutshell: the order is not interested in solving the underlying problems.

Let me give you an example. Some time ago, I heard an MC sister speak in my church. She spoke of the following situation: somewhere in India, there is a colony of lepers (i.e. social outcasts), whom the sisters help. These people live in mud huts, and every monsoon season the rain will cause these huts to collapse. They are left homeless and have to rebuild… until next year. Of course, since they end up living outside for that part of the year, their health will deteriorate… And the sisters end up having to treat them.

The sister who was speaking did not perceive this issue as a solvable problem! That shocked me. The things would be simple to improve, by bulding these people simple wooden sheds, or even giving them wood, nails and hammers to do it by themselves.

This sounds strange to me. India is indeed a poor country but it also has wealth for many. If the Gov’t or private individuals cannot provide proper housing for the poor of India why would anyone expect a poor group of nuns to? A lot of the other criticism seems to amount to this: MT did not provide first world health care including palliative care. It’s escapes me why no-one notices that she ministered to people who would have had no health care.

 

[Bradski]

Ah yes, you’ve seamlessly moved from one criticism to another…overpopulation.

And again we come to understand the true agenda of those who want to criticise people like Mother Teresa.

Overpopulation isn’t a criticism. It’s a fact. And it’s simply one of the reasons why there are problems in India. And they’re doing their best to solve it:

Many experts emphasize that easing India’s population burden will require a holistic response centered on improving health services and teaching about a full range of contraception. ndtv.com/article/india/defusing-india-s-population-time-bomb-46276

I think it’s a bad idea to try to prevent that happening.

 

[underacloud]

Overpopulation isn’t a criticism. It’s a fact. And it’s simply one of the reasons why there are problems in India. And they’re doing their best to solve it:

Many experts emphasize that easing India’s population burden will require a holistic response centered on improving health services and teaching about a full range of contraception. ndtv.com/article/india/defusing-india-s-population-time-bomb-46276

I think it’s a bad idea to try to prevent that happening.

The world has always had poor…it isn’t a new thing and it isn’t caused by overpopulation…there is more than enough food and more than enough wealth to go around.

You use the term fact much too losely.

But like I said, you’ve moved from one criticism to another and shown your true agenda.

 

[atheistgirl]

It’s escapes me why no-one notices that she ministered to people who would have had no health care.

People do know this. But the criticisms of doctors who said there was no distinction offered between those who were dying and those who could be saved, is a serious one, if you’re going to take on the responsibility of a duty of care to the most vulnerable in society.

A volunteer and journalist, Mary Lundon cites an example of a boy who had a simple kidney infection, who was allowed to die, and from which he could have been easily saved.

When questioned why the sisters didn’t take him to a nearby hospital, by cab, she was told ‘‘if they do it for one, everyone will expect it’’.

Another example is that of a toe being operated on without any form of painkiller by completely untrained staff.

That person should have been sent to hospital.

Their dignity demanded that much - when it was possible to get to hospital and possible their toe could be fixed in a painless manner.

The numerous examples given of needles being washed in cold water and reused is inexcusable, when the money was there to ensure everyone had a sterile needle when needed.

It is these criticisms I think are valid, and frankly, if your charism is to administer care to the needy, should not have been overlooked.

Sarah x

 

[underacloud]

Very limited thinking.

We’ve made some of the best improvements on some of our products and services by listening to people who don’t use them.

Sarah x

Would the nuns do well to listed to criticism from people who may have good suggestions? Sure.

Should such advise be offered? Sure.

Should it be directed at the nuns as criticism (finding fault) by those who don’t wish to help? No.

There’s a difference between criticising as a way of assessing something and offering advise, and criticising something as a way of finding fault.

 

[atheistgirl]

Should it be directed at the nuns as criticism (finding fault) by those who don’t wish to help? No.

As I said, very limited thinking, because such criticism can indeed be, by itself, helping.

Sarah x

 

[underacloud]

As I said, very limited thinking, because such criticism can indeed be, by itself, helping.

Sarah x

Pretty sure I said that above.

The fact that someone ought not to criticise (as finding fault, as opposed to offering advice) does not mean that their criticism can’t be helpful in itself.

 

[atheistgirl]

…(I still think it’s 2012!)

You too huh

Sometime around March it usually sinks in and I’m ok from there on in …until next year

Sarah x

 

[Bradski]

The world has always had poor…it isn’t a new thing and it isn’t caused by overpopulation…there is more than enough food and more than enough wealth to go around.

You use the term fact much too losely.

But like I said, you’ve moved from one criticism to another and shown your true agenda.

Good grief, I’m not talking about overpopulation on a global scale. But surely you cannot deny that some of the largest cities in India are overpopulated. They are overcrowded. There are too many people to comfortably support.

I don’t know if you have ever visited places like Hong Kong, Manila or Delhi but the poverty in those places is exacerbated by the overcrowding. That is, there are too many people. That is, people are having too many children

With over half of India’s population in cities, overcrowding is a huge problem leading to even more poverty. Slums are evermore present in this country. Wealth is now concentrated to a very few, and mega- cities are now spreading to larger areas with increasing poverty rates. But will the population ever slow down? As India’s population is thought to rise to 70% of citizens living in cities by 2070. sge.lclark.edu/2012/09/10/too-many-people-indias-overcrowding-in-cities/

Do you have any thoughts on how the problem can be solved? Because this leads directly to one of the criticisms of Mother Theresa and is one that needs to be answered as per the OP.

 

[underacloud]

Good grief, I’m not talking about overpopulation on a global scale. But surely you cannot deny that some of the largest cities in India are overpopulated. They are overcrowded. There are too many people to comfortably support.

I don’t know if you have ever visited places like Hong Kong, Manila or Delhi but the poverty in those places is exacerbated by the overcrowding. That is, there are too many people. That is, people are having too many children

With over half of India’s population in cities, overcrowding is a huge problem leading to even more poverty. Slums are evermore present in this country. Wealth is now concentrated to a very few, and mega- cities are now spreading to larger areas with increasing poverty rates. But will the population ever slow down? As India’s population is thought to rise to 70% of citizens living in cities by 2070. sge.lclark.edu/2012/09/10/too-many-people-indias-overcrowding-in-cities/

Do you have any thoughts on how the problem can be solved? Because this leads directly to one of the criticisms of Mother Theresa and is one that needs to be answered as per the OP.

The poor tend to congregate in major cities. This has always been so.

I’m no expert and cannot solve the world’s poverty. The world collectively could choose to distribute food and wealth so that all people can eat properly and live comfortably, but this will never happen. The fact that “wealth is now concentrated to a very few” is the key problem.

It’s not that the poor are having too many children, it’s that the rich are not sharing their wealth so that those children can eat, have a home, etc.

Anyway, this is another topic.

 

[Bradski]

It’s not that the poor are having too many children, it’s that the rich are not sharing their wealth so that those children can eat, have a home, etc.

But as you said:

…this will never happen.

So it’s not therefore an option when we’re looking for a solution to all those children who don’t have enough to eat. Who are living in slums. Who are living in overcrowded cities.

So the solution to the problem, in the long run, would be to reduce the birth rate so that there are less people. India is actually trying to do this right now and is having some success. Contraception plays a vital role in doing this. To argue against it would be to argue against the obvious solution. To argue against it would be perverse.

Anyway, this is another topic.

No, it’s not. It’s one of the criticisms of Mother Theresa. That she was arguing against and actively trying to convince people that one of the obvious solutions to the problem was a mortal sin.

Now you don’t have to be an expert in poverty to realise the reasons behind it. And you don’t have to be an expert to offer solutions. You can even spend a minute or two checking what other people, who are experts at this, are suggesting what could be done.

Let me know if you come up with any ideas.

 

[underacloud]

There has always been poor. Regardless of overpopulation. Introducing contraception to the poor in third world slums will not solve this. Poverty is an unavoidable outcome of unfair wealth distribution.

Your last post seems to let the wealthy off the hook while blaming Mother Teresa and the Catholic Church for the scourge of poverty by saying that contraception is the obvious solution. It is not.

Throughout human history there have been poor. It is not an outcome of population size. You may think that reducing the global population will solve such problems, but it wont. Not while there is a rich prepared to hoard wealth while others are suffering.

 

[Bradski]

You may think that reducing the global population will solve such problems, but it wont.

Others disagree. And the following is just a tiny sample of a monstrous amount of information on the problems of overpopulation and the obvious solution. Well, obvious to some us, at least.

HALTING the world’s rocketing population growth is the key to solving global warming – a solution that has been ignored or overlooked by leading climate change advocates. “Global warming is a direct result of human activity,” Professor Short told The Weekend Australian. "The more people there are, the worse the global warming threat gets.

"So we have got to do everything we can to control human population growth”.
"We haven’t given the women of the world freedom from the tyranny – and I do mean tyranny – of unwanted fertility”. theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/overpopulation-environment-threat/story-e6frg8y6-1111119059859

Overpopulation is a crucial “global problem” recognized by the U.N. According to estimates made in May, the world population in 2050 will be 9.3 billion, with a disproportionate contribution from Africa, which currently has a 2.3% growth rate.

However, according to Joel Cohen, there is a solution to the overpopulation problem that does not involve a coercive “one-child” rule as in China. Increasing female secondary education in developing nations, where birth rates are the highest, has the potential to dramatically decrease population growth by 2050.

Another benefit of increased female education is improved accessibility and understanding of fertility options and health-promoting measures before and during pregnancy. http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/hghr/online/secondary-education-women/

And there are still 215 million women who do not have access to contraception, an abiding injustice which contributes directly to the 53 million unwanted pregnancies every year and the deaths of 70,000 women every year from illegal abortions and complications in pregnancy.

The total fertility rate for the women of Ethiopia, Uganda, Somalia and Kenya is between 4.6 and 6.5 children per woman of childbearing age. The combined population of these four countries was 40 million in 1960; now it’s 167 million. The population of Ethiopia was 23 million in 1960; now it’s 83 million. independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/jonathon-porritt-overpopulation-the-global-crisis-that-dare-not-speak-its-name-2376464.html

 

[atheistgirl]

Increasing female secondary education in developing nations, where birth rates are the highest, has the potential to dramatically decrease population growth by 2050.

Another benefit of increased female education is improved accessibility and understanding of fertility options and health-promoting measures before and during pregnancy.
hcs.harvard.edu/hghr/online/secondary-education-women

I can’t remember where I first heard it, or who first said it, but that quote reminded me of it - the one sure fire way to eradicate poverty, is to educate and empower women.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Sarah x

 

[underacloud]

Very impressive sources. If I though it would help I’d dig around for a few of my own to throw in the mix.

But again, I’ll repeat this since it’s important…we have always had poverty.

Poverty is not a modern phenomenon caused by overpopulation. It won’t be solved by reducing population.

Anyway, I did say I wasn’t interested in discussing overpopulation. There are plenty of other threads you can join in to argue that old chestnut. But I will point out that a discussion about arguably valid criticisms of the methods of Mother Teresa et al has turned into a general attack on Catholic morality…which is why I am usually skeptical about such criticisms as they may well be driven by ulterior motives.

Saying the sisters of mercy ought to use sterile needles every time is one thing; saying they should abondon their moral beliefs in deference to dubious analyses of overpopulation and solutions to poverty is another.

 

[Bradski]

I can’t remember where I first heard it, or who first said it, but that quote reminded me of it - the one sure fire way to eradicate poverty, is to educate and empower women.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Sarah x

“…there is no tool for development more effective than the empowerment of women.”
Kofi Annan

 

[atheistgirl]

“…there is no tool for development more effective than the empowerment of women.”
Kofi Annan

:curtsey:

Sarah x

 

[underacloud]

Well you’ll be very pleased to know that the Catholic Church has a long and proud history of providing education, especially for women and the poor. Catholic educational institutions around the world number around 135,000 elementary and secondary schools and 1,800 colleges and universities. In India alone there are over 14, 000 institutions.

Yes, education is very important. I’m glad we can agree on something (though no doubt disagree on some of the specifics of that education).