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heronimo
Guest
anybody here knows and have an idea about the Vision Theory on the ressurection of christ?
thnks!
thnks!
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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
That’s news to me. Tell us about the “Vision Theory” on the resurrection of Christ. What exactly is it?
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teachccd
Guest
Yea, all who saw Jesus were hallucinating. Amazing at what great lengths people will take to deny the truth…teachccd 
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heronimo
Guest
I’m so curious how to hallucinate! if that so I think Jesus is the founder of hallucination hahaha lol!!Yea, all who saw Jesus were hallucinating. Amazing at what great lengths people will take to deny the truth…teachccd
he is still a great man!
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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
Okay, I did an Internet search. Here is the link to the post where I copied this from:
newadvent.org/cathen/12789a.htm
“The Vision Theory
This theory as generally understood by its advocates does not allow visions caused by a Divine intervention, but only such as are the product of human agencies. For if a Divine intervention be admitted, we may as well believe, as far as principles are concerned, that God raised Jesus from the dead. But where in the present instance are the human agencies which might cause these visions? The idea of a resurrection from the grave was familiar to the disciples from their Jewish faith; they had also vague intimations in the prophecies of the Old Testament; finally, Jesus Himself had always associated His Resurrection with the predictions of his death. On the other hand, the disciples’ state of mind was one of great excitement; they treasured the memory of Christ with a fondness which made it almost impossible for them to believe that He was gone. In short, their whole mental condition was such as needed only the application of a spark to kindle the flame. The spark was applied by Mary Magdalen, and the flame at once spread with the rapidity and force of a conflagration. What she believed that she had seen, others immediately believed that they must see. Their expectations were fulfilled, and the conviction seized the members of the early Church that the Lord had really risen from the dead.”
This “Vision Theory” thus suggests that the apostles had a “mass hallucination” or some such regarding the resurrection, and thus Jesus didn’t rise from the dead.
I’d have to say it’s hogwash. It’s absolutely impossible, considering what the Catholic Church has become. The resurrection is central to Christianity; without it, there is no Christianity. So to believe in the Vision Theory is to be a heretic.
St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 says:
12 5 But if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith. 15 Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised, 17 and if Christ has not been raised, 6 your faith is vain; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all.
Taken from: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians15.htm
Fulton Sheen also once said, and I’m forced to rely on paraphrase, that if Christ isn’t raised from the dead, then that would make Jesus of Nazareth the “anti-christ” (Sheen did use that word) for who in all of history could be said to have fooled so many (pretty sure it was “Life of Christ.” Anybody know?
You just posted (while I’ve been compiling this) that:
“if that so I think Jesus is the founder of hallucination hahaha lol!! he is still a great man!”
**No, heronimo, he would not be “still a great man.” If he wasn’t resurrected from the dead, then Jesus of Nazareth was a charismatic fool, and like St. Paul said, that would make us the biggest fools of all. **
You’re a “Solid Catholic.” At least that’s what your bio used to say until you recently changed it to “very loveable person.” I certainly hope you don’t believe in this nonsense. But it sounds like you do by even suggesting that “Jesus is the founder of hallucination hahaha lol.” That would only be funny to an atheist, I suppose.
But that wouldn’t be you, would it heronimo? Say it isn’t so.
newadvent.org/cathen/12789a.htm
“The Vision Theory
This theory as generally understood by its advocates does not allow visions caused by a Divine intervention, but only such as are the product of human agencies. For if a Divine intervention be admitted, we may as well believe, as far as principles are concerned, that God raised Jesus from the dead. But where in the present instance are the human agencies which might cause these visions? The idea of a resurrection from the grave was familiar to the disciples from their Jewish faith; they had also vague intimations in the prophecies of the Old Testament; finally, Jesus Himself had always associated His Resurrection with the predictions of his death. On the other hand, the disciples’ state of mind was one of great excitement; they treasured the memory of Christ with a fondness which made it almost impossible for them to believe that He was gone. In short, their whole mental condition was such as needed only the application of a spark to kindle the flame. The spark was applied by Mary Magdalen, and the flame at once spread with the rapidity and force of a conflagration. What she believed that she had seen, others immediately believed that they must see. Their expectations were fulfilled, and the conviction seized the members of the early Church that the Lord had really risen from the dead.”
This “Vision Theory” thus suggests that the apostles had a “mass hallucination” or some such regarding the resurrection, and thus Jesus didn’t rise from the dead.
I’d have to say it’s hogwash. It’s absolutely impossible, considering what the Catholic Church has become. The resurrection is central to Christianity; without it, there is no Christianity. So to believe in the Vision Theory is to be a heretic.
St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 says:
12 5 But if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith. 15 Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised, 17 and if Christ has not been raised, 6 your faith is vain; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all.
Taken from: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians15.htm
Fulton Sheen also once said, and I’m forced to rely on paraphrase, that if Christ isn’t raised from the dead, then that would make Jesus of Nazareth the “anti-christ” (Sheen did use that word) for who in all of history could be said to have fooled so many (pretty sure it was “Life of Christ.” Anybody know?
You just posted (while I’ve been compiling this) that:
“if that so I think Jesus is the founder of hallucination hahaha lol!! he is still a great man!”
**No, heronimo, he would not be “still a great man.” If he wasn’t resurrected from the dead, then Jesus of Nazareth was a charismatic fool, and like St. Paul said, that would make us the biggest fools of all. **
You’re a “Solid Catholic.” At least that’s what your bio used to say until you recently changed it to “very loveable person.” I certainly hope you don’t believe in this nonsense. But it sounds like you do by even suggesting that “Jesus is the founder of hallucination hahaha lol.” That would only be funny to an atheist, I suppose.
But that wouldn’t be you, would it heronimo? Say it isn’t so.
J
jpjd
Guest
You mean, all those witnesses shared a mass hallucination in which they all saw the same thing and heard the same words??? A mass hallucination that lasted 40 days until the Ascension??? And proponents of this theory think this is more plausible than Jesus being both man and God?
Who are these people who develop these theories???
Who are these people who develop these theories???
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RobbyS
Guest
When I read from the text, I see people who are greatly surpised by the Resurrection. The confused, even contradictory accounts make them more plausible. People are shocked, astounded. The Evangelists take pains to point out that this was a person
they were meeting, not a ghost. His prophecies about his death are always given as retrospects, and the emphasis is on the unexpected nature of it. AndI don’t think that
the Jewish idea of Resurrection thought of an individual rising from the dead except as part of a healing ceremony, like Lazarus or the little girl.
After my Dad died, I remember lying in bed and he is sitting in a chair alongside and we are having a normal conversation. This is in my apartment many miles from home. All of a sudden I said “But you are dead!” He looked at me with “surpise” (the only word that comes to mind) He said something I can’t remember.
Then I woke up while looking at where he “was” and the chair was empty. I have had dreams about him, but no other in which he seemed to be with me in my ordianry surroundings. But Our Lord’s appearances, as desc ribed in the Gospels, are muich more concrete than that.
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bullfrog654
Guest
maaby a more appropriate path to prepare for is such as revelations when god will take his chosen people to heaven the rest will try to prove their dead
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cranster
Guest
I find that explanation rather weak since hallucinations are internal. A hallucination is internal stimuli produced in ones own brain. Although it is possible that two people could have the same hallucination at the same time, it is extremely improbable. That means that two individuals would have to have their own unique brain chemistry fire off internal stimuli of the exact same thing at the same time. I’m sure you could have a group that could be subject to mass suggestion, but highly unlikely mass hallucination. That same argument is used on the 100,000 that witnessed the miracle of the sun at Fatima. In both cases hallucination as an explanation is absurd.Yea, all who saw Jesus were hallucinating. Amazing at what great lengths people will take to deny the truth…teachccd
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bullfrog654
Guest
i disagree i have schizophrenia and is similar to being high on acid 24 hours a day and have learned if someone enters a room high with people high on acid they can join the high without taking anything
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cranster
Guest
Let me start by saying I’m sorry you have to suffer with that. You will be in my prayers.
It’s unlikely anyone was taking acid 2,000 years ago. The Mary’s were the first to witness Jesus resurrection. Then the twelve apostles, and finally the 500 who watched Jesus ascend into Heaven. Even if they all had schizophrenia and/or were on mind altering chemical’s, it’s still absurdly improbable that they all would have had generated the same internal stimulation. If they all had the same hallucination of the same thing at the same time that would suggest some sort of outside influence to cause 500+ unique brain chemistries to produce the exact same thing. Since that is not something that happens naturally, then that collective experience would have had to have been outside of the natural order.
I’ve been in the room with people who were high and never experienced what they were.
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teachccd
Guest
I was just answering the OP’s question…teachccd 
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