Restitution

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Athanasius

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Hi,

I have a question about restitution…

First off, I should say that I have a problem with scrupulosity. And my scrupulosity affects this situation greatly.

It seems I’m always remembering things I did in the past, many times years ago, that I feel I may need to make restitution for. (I’m not always sure) I try to make restitution for that stuff, and then I turn around and something else comes up that I feel needs restitution. It goes over and over again, like a vicious circle. It seems like no matter how much restitution I make for one thing, I always think of something else afterwards. I can’t ever get out of the past, and it seemes that it will never end. This is especially the case when it comes to issues dealing with copyrights. So I went to my priest for advice.

For instance, during my last confession, I confessed the following:

At one point I had been on the Internet for about 3 and a half years (this was before I had developed a problems with scrupulosity).

Countless times during that time period, I would visit personal websites of ordinary people that had copyrighted songs on them by different people (such as by country stars like Faith Hill or Toby Keith). You were able to listen to those songs either through streaming RealAudio or downloading the songs to your computer and listening that way, both ways of which I did many times (though if I had one that I downloaded to my computer, I would always delete it shortly after I was done listening to the song, ). There were a lot of songs I listened to repeatedly in this way. I can’t remember clearly if at the time, I thought that was acceptable or not. I think I probably had some doubts that it was acceptable at times, but since I wasn’t completely sure, I didn’t pay too much attention.

Another thing: over the years, I have borrowed computer CD’s from my father (who I live with) to place things on my computers, such as Windows 98 Second Edition and Microsoft Works. I had seen something in the user agreements that seemed to suggest perhaps that might not be allowed, but I assumed they were probably talking about something else, or it was only a technicality. After all, I lived in the same household, and my father, who knows a lot about computers, seemed to think it was OK to use the same CD to place programs on different computers at the same time if you lived in the same household. So I thought it was OK.

(Though I should point out on three different occasions I had moved out, I thought permanently, and kept the programs on my computers anyway, though technically I wasn’t in the same household at the time. Since I placed the programs on there when I was in the same household, I thought that was OK. Also, once I sold one of those computers with the programs on it; it hadn’t even crossed my mind to take the programs off of it. I simply forgot.)

That said, I don’t do that stuff anymore, of course. I also now make sure that all the programs on my computers I have bought my own CD’s for. But the idea of trying to make restitution for all of that stuff haunts me. I don’t even know how I would. Since I’m living with my parents right now and a full time job, I have a lot of spare money. But how would I make up that restitution? In the first situation, I can’t remember all the songs I listened to, and even for those that I can, buying a brand new music CD for each and every song would still be expensive. In the latter situation, I can’t remember all the computer CD’s I borrowed. I know only Windows 98 and Microsoft Works, for sure, though perhaps there were others. But even then, again, I thought it was acceptable for me to borrow those computer CD’s.

I told my priest this, and also explained my situation that I felt like even if I could make restitution for the above mentioned things, a million more things would pop up, and that it would never end. This is especially the case since there are a lot of things dealing with copyright issues I thought it was acceptable to do at the time I did them, though I’m not sure now.

Since my priest is well aware of my situation with scrupulosity, I mentioned something I had read in the book Understanding Scrupulosity by Fr. Thomas Santa, which I heard recommended by Catholic Answers.
 
On p. 192 of that book it states:

“….you are obligated to make restitution only when directed to do so by your confessor; you are not required to do so because you think it is necessary or because you feel compelled to do so.”

My priest agreed with that statement. He also said that the process would never end if I kept looking to the past (many times concerning things that happened years ago). He told me to forget the past, and just have a fresh start. He said that I shouldn’t worry about trying to make restitution for those things in the past, just try to do my best now. I asked him if that included things I did in the past that need restitution but that I might not remember until later on and he said yes. He said I should have a fresh start, and only be concerned about the future.

I was just wanting to know if what my priest and the book Understanding Scrupulosity said is all right? I sure hope it is; otherwise I don’t think I’ll ever stop worrying about my past (especially copyright issues)…I don’t know what to do.
 
please safe your confessions for the confessional, rehashing them here will not help your problem with scrupulosity, it will only make it worse.
 
I’m sorry. You’re right, I guess I should not have done that…

However, I do wish to make sure that I can trust what my priest and the book Understanding Scrupulosity stated (in my second post)
 
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Athanasius:
I’m sorry. You’re right, I guess I should not have done that…

However, I do wish to make sure that I can trust what my priest and the book Understanding Scrupulosity stated (in my second post)
Yes you can trust absolutely what Father advises you to do. Scruples is a dreadful trial and a cross…I went through it for many years. “Jesus, I trust you”, “Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in You, no matter what may befall me Lord, though dark the hour may be”…

Barb
 
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Athanasius:
I’m sorry. You’re right, I guess I should not have done that…

However, I do wish to make sure that I can trust what my priest and the book Understanding Scrupulosity stated (in my second post)
Part of overcoming your scrupulosity will involve you trusting your confessor. (Assuming that he is your regular confessor, and he has been helping you to overcome scruples.) Make sure you tell him that you have come to the forum doubting him. Not that its a sin or anything… it is just good that your confessor knows what your scrupulous mind has been up to! 😃 He can help you, while it will also help to build your trust.

Be at peace…
 
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Athanasius:
I’m sorry. You’re right, I guess I should not have done that…

However, I do wish to make sure that I can trust what my priest and the book Understanding Scrupulosity stated (in my second post)
Part of overcoming your scrupulosity will involve you trusting your confessor. (Assuming that he is your regular confessor, and he has been helping you to overcome scruples.) Make sure you tell him that you have come to the forum doubting him. Not that its a sin or anything… it is just good that your confessor knows what your scrupulous mind has been up to! 😃 He can help you, while it will also help to build your trust.

Be at peace…
 
Thank-you for your replies.

Those sins that I mentioned in my first post were ones that I wished to make sure I need not worry about making restitution for (for the reasons stated in the first post), as my priest told me not to worry about them (or anything else that I may have done in the past). It helps to be reassured, though.
Yes you can trust absolutely what Father advises you to do. Scruples is a dreadful trial and a cross…I went through it for many years. “Jesus, I trust you”, “Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in You, no matter what may befall me Lord, though dark the hour may be”…
Thank you for providing those prayers!
Part of overcoming your scrupulosity will involve you trusting your confessor (Assuming that he is your regular confessor, and he has been helping you to overcome scruples.)
Yes, he is my regular confessor (in fact, my church is the only Catholic church in a three county area). However, while he is a good guy, he is not always obedient to the Magisterium…

That said, I cannot remember him ever saying anything in the confesional that contradicted Church teaching (that I knew about, anyway).
Make sure you tell him that you have come to the forum doubting him. Not that its a sin or anything… it is just good that your confessor knows what your scrupulous mind has been up to! He can help you, while it will also help to build your trust.
I’ll try to remember that!
 
Thank-you for the links!

Yes, I have read through the Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous. It has been very helpful.
 
BTW, I do wish to make a clarification…(indeed, I might have not expressed myself well at all in this thread, so I might have needed to make other clarifications as well; I’m not sure).

When I wrote…
It seems I’m always remembering things I did in the past, many times years ago, that I feel I may need to make restitution for. (I’m not always sure) I try to make restitution for that stuff, and then I turn around and something else comes up that I feel needs restitution. It goes over and over again, like a vicious circle. It seems like no matter how much restitution I make for one thing, I always think of something else afterwards. I can’t ever get out of the past, and it seemes that it will never end. This is especially the case when it comes to issues dealing with copyrights. So I went to my priest for advice.
I should clarify to prevent misunderstanding that I did not always think of things needing restitution…but I did a few times, and at those times I did it seemed that the amount kept on growing and growing.

Not for the things mentioned in my first post, but for others (specifically work-related things)I would try to make restitution, thinking to myself, “Well, this should be enough restitution.” And then I would think later on perhaps I needed to make more. Perhaps I was letting myself off too easy. So I would do more. And even then, after a while, I was thinking perhaps even then I needed to make more restitution again. And if I didn’t do that, making restitution for the worst case scenario (instead of the most likely scenario), then up to a period of a couple of weeks I would feel very uneasy. After a while, the feeling would go away, but then months later on it would come back, and the cycle would repeat itself. That was the vicious circle I was talking about…I have dealt with it for about three and a half years.

When I mentioned copyrights, that was because of a question I had: do you have to make restitution for accidents, at least as far as copyrights are concerned.?

To give an example of what I mean, I like to read books by G.K. Chesterton. So last year, I read two of his books online (The Thing and St. Thomas Aquinas.) I knew they were both written past 1923, but I found them on this website, and so figured they must be in the public domain somehow. I also listened many times to the radio dramatization by Orson Welles of Chesterton’s The Man Who Was Thursday, again, figuring that somehow it was in the public domain.

But then later on, I saw a website state that St. Thomas Aquinas was not in the public domain (except in Australia). I also never even thought about the fact that the website I read the books off of was in the United Kingdom, and they might have different copyright laws. So I might have read works copyrighted in the US for free online.

I don’t know if they are copyrighted…Dave Armstrong links to both The Thing and St. Thomas Aquinas on his Chesterton webpage, and I’ve seen The Everlasting Man, also written past 1923, linked to on other websites…which would seem strange if they are copyrighted material.

But if they are copyrighted still, and not in the public domain, would I have still needed to make restitution, even though I read them, thinking they were in the public domain in the U.S?

That is an example of what I am referring to. In the future, are accidents like those something I must make restitution for?
 
<<That is an example of what I am referring to. In the future, are accidents like those something I must make restitution for?>>

No, because it was not intentional.
 
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Athanasius:
I had seen something in the user agreements that seemed to suggest perhaps that might not be allowed, but I assumed they were probably talking about something else, or it was only a technicality.
Remember there’s a difference btwn what is legal, and* what is moral.*

Private companies are not the Church: they cannot say “this or that is a sin”.

They may not be “ok with it” but that does not matter.

Or are we supposed to believe that the courts define “the morality” of VCR while defining the “immorality” of MP3 when it’s clearly the same case (not paying to every party involved)?

Of course not.

So remember the difference and you’ll be ok.
 
I know this is an old post, but I had one question I needed to ask, about this part (specifically, the part in bold):
Another thing: over the years, I have borrowed computer CD’s from my father (who I live with) to place things on my computers, such as Windows 98 Second Edition and Microsoft Works. I had seen something in the user agreements that seemed to suggest perhaps that might not be allowed, but I assumed they were probably talking about something else, or it was only a technicality. After all, I lived in the same household, and my father, who knows a lot about computers, seemed to think it was OK to use the same CD to place programs on different computers at the same time if you lived in the same household. So I thought it was OK… Also, once I sold one of those computers with the programs on it; it hadn’t even crossed my mind to take the programs off of it. I simply forgot.)
Would I be obligated to track down that person I sold it to and tell them that those programs weren’t supposed to be on the computer? The person was from my workplace, and though she doesn’t work there anymore, perhaps someone else at my workplace knows where she lives.

I don’t know if I am obligated to do so or not…I hope not (since I’m already going crazy with worry over a million other things due to my scrupulosity)…

Also, can I trust what my priest stated about a “fresh start” for everything in the posts above, even if I have the ability to make restitution (which I explained to him), but he stated I could still have a “fresh start”? I hope so, because this is driving me crazy…
 
Athanasius, you have transfered your scrupulose behavior to this thread. It is not a good thing for a person with your problem to keep going back and trying to be certain you got it right. Your confessor is your “lifesaver” and you are in the “midocean” of scrupulosity. You literally need to cut out the messing around and depend on him or you will spiritually drown. I have been in your situation 50 years ago and it was only by following what my confessor advised that literally saved my life. With time scruplosity can lead to despair and you do not, and I repeat, you do not want to go there. Trust your confesssor and the Jesus he stands in for. I will pray for you everyday.
 
Athanasius, it is obedience that will save you. Here’s the deal. When you obey a person who has legitimate authority (and the priest in confession definitely has legitimate authority over you), you are OK with God, whether or not the person is completely correct. It is NOT YOUR JOB to determine whether the person in authority is correct. That is between him and God.

Your confessor has told you to forget the past and let this restitution business go. Just do it. Do not question. As rwoehmke just told you, not to trust Jesus and your confessor is to place yourself in grave danger.

For the scrupulous, obedience is the only way to peace.

Betsy
 
Thank-you for your answers
Your confessor has told you to forget the past and let this restitution business go. Just do it. Do not question.
No matter how much it may be? Even if (including a million other things besides what is mentioned in this thread), it were ten trillion dollars worth of resitution, and even if I had the ability to pay it, (to use a worst-case scenario), as long as my priest said I could have a “fresh” start, I do not need to worry about it,right?

I apologize, but I just wish to be sure (since I do not feel I can trust my confessor, since he is not always faithful to the magisterium).

Also, like I asked in my previous post,
I know this is an old post, but I had one question I needed to ask, about this part (specifically, the part in bold):
Another thing: over the years, I have borrowed computer CD’s from my father (who I live with) to place things on my computers, such as Windows 98 Second Edition and Microsoft Works. I had seen something in the user agreements that seemed to suggest perhaps that might not be allowed, but I assumed they were probably talking about something else, or it was only a technicality. After all, I lived in the same household, and my father, who knows a lot about computers, seemed to think it was OK to use the same CD to place programs on different computers at the same time if you lived in the same household. So I thought it was OK… Also, once I sold one of those computers with the programs on it; it hadn’t even crossed my mind to take the programs off of it. I simply forgot.)
Would I be obligated to track down that person I sold it to and tell them that those programs weren’t supposed to be on the computer? The person was from my workplace, and though she doesn’t work there anymore, perhaps someone else at my workplace knows where she lives.

I don’t know if I am obligated to do so or not…I hope not (since I’m already going crazy with worry over a million other things due to my scrupulosity)…

I should point out that I don’t know how many different computer programs would be on there that shouldn’t have been, but were placed on there under the circumstances I described above, and then I sold the computer to her.

Like I said, this is very difficult for me…I would certainly appreciate any prayers.
 
I’ll pray for you absolutely - now stop posting here and start saying the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy.

His mercy is infinite and he loves us and wants us to be with him in heaven - he’s not about setting impossibly strict and rigid standards and watching like a hawk for the tiniest technical infraction of them.
 
You said you forgot about it when you sold the computer, so obviously you weren’t doing it deliberately. Now forget about it.
 
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