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kimg901
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So what are the claims of these churches and why do they feel Jesus needed to restore His Church in the first place?
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Celtic_Maiden
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There is a lot of people around with illusions of Grandeur, Jesus gave us His Church, but you have heard of the 3 Monkeys, see nothing, hear nothing , and do what your not meant to do.
Really what these people are saying God tells lies, or goes back on His Word, and as we all know GOD DOES NOT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HE IS FAITHFULL TO THE END.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS, HARD OF HEARING, HARD OF ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THE LORD WHEN HE WAS HERE ON EARTH, YOU KNOW WHAT THE LORD DID WITH THE FIG TREE.
Really what these people are saying God tells lies, or goes back on His Word, and as we all know GOD DOES NOT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HE IS FAITHFULL TO THE END.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS, HARD OF HEARING, HARD OF ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THE LORD WHEN HE WAS HERE ON EARTH, YOU KNOW WHAT THE LORD DID WITH THE FIG TREE.
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ChurchSoldier
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Are you speaking of the Restoration Movement churches such as Stone-Campbell and the Churches of Christ type?
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Christian_Soul
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I have some familiarity with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination, one of the denominations which grew out of the Restoration movement. To my understanding there was a break in the movement when another denomination growing from the movement, the more conservative Churches of Christ opposed for instance, instrumental worship music. But the movement appears to have been a backlash to excessive dogmatic rigidness as tests of fellowship which for instance kept believers from even partaking in the Lord’s supper at His table. Disciples favor inclusiveness, openness, recognize the diversity among Christians, favor the breaking down of barriers and the shedding of labels beyond being called Christians and disciples. Holding to the belief that Jesus Christ was the only basis for His Church’s existence. They do practice weekly Communion and immersion. However converts to the Disciples who have been baptized as infants are not re-baptized and can join by a simple profession of Christ Lord and Savior. I’ve heard it said by Disciples, “no creed but Christ”. With Christ being the One who breaks down walls and in turn Christians being united in Him as Lord and Savior. To my knowledge they have engaged with the Catholic Church in ecumenical talks.
Much more about can be found about the Disciples here.
disciples.org/Home/WhoWeAre/AboutTheChristianChurchDisciplesofChrist/tabid/67/Default.aspx
Much more about can be found about the Disciples here.
disciples.org/Home/WhoWeAre/AboutTheChristianChurchDisciplesofChrist/tabid/67/Default.aspx
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Christian_Soul
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I’m not sure it’s fair, let alone charitable, to say because they don’t share the fullness of the Catholic faith, that “these people” of Christian faith say “God tells lies”. That’s quite an accusation.There is a lot of people around with illusions of Grandeur, Jesus gave us His Church, but you have heard of the 3 Monkeys, see nothing, hear nothing , and do what your not meant to do.
Really what these people are saying God tells lies, or goes back on His Word, and as we all know GOD DOES NOT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HE IS FAITHFULL TO THE END.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS, HARD OF HEARING, HARD OF ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THE LORD WHEN HE WAS HERE ON EARTH, YOU KNOW WHAT THE LORD DID WITH THE FIG TREE.
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kimg901
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This thread is in response to a mormon poster (I see he/she hasnt posted) saying they didnt want to derail another thread. But since there are alot of restorationist churches, all would apply to this thread.
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ChurchSoldier
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What do you mean by this?
I’ve heard this a lot. And not to say it is not true, but do you have original source material for this claim? By original source, I mean the published paper by a person who did the research and counted them, not an apologist whom you are referencing.WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS,
Thanks.
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kimg901
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I learned that by saying “God failed” instead of “God lied” I get a better response from folks. Your more than welcome to use whatever words you like but…There is a lot of people around with illusions of Grandeur, Jesus gave us His Church, but you have heard of the 3 Monkeys, see nothing, hear nothing , and do what your not meant to do.
Really what these people are saying God tells lies, or goes back on His Word, and as we all know GOD DOES NOT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HE IS FAITHFULL TO THE END.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS, HARD OF HEARING, HARD OF ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THE LORD WHEN HE WAS HERE ON EARTH, YOU KNOW WHAT THE LORD DID WITH THE FIG TREE.
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Robyn_p
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I understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate your zeal, but maybe try saying something more along the lines of “this doctrine essentially implies that Jesus made a mistake”, instead of saying “these people say God is a liar”. Might be more effective.There is a lot of people around with illusions of Grandeur, Jesus gave us His Church, but you have heard of the 3 Monkeys, see nothing, hear nothing , and do what your not meant to do.
Really what these people are saying God tells lies, or goes back on His Word, and as we all know GOD DOES NOT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HE IS FAITHFULL TO THE END.
WHY DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 33,000 PROTESTANTS DENOMINATIONS, HARD OF HEARING, HARD OF ACCEPTING THE WORD OF THE LORD WHEN HE WAS HERE ON EARTH, YOU KNOW WHAT THE LORD DID WITH THE FIG TREE.
They’re still our brothers and sisters in Christ and deserve our respect and love. Not saying we can’t disagree with them, but its been more helpful in my experience to make sure to separate the doctrines or teachings we disagree with from the people involved.
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ChurchSoldier
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What does this mean? Where are you getting people are saying God failed or lied?
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kimg901
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When speaking with mormons, I used to say “God lied” and they would get a little upset. The word lied sounds harsh compared to “God failed”. But their god is not our God
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WD615
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What Christian Soul is a good explanation of it. I’m a former member of the churches of Christ, Stone-Campbell Movement, Restoration Movement, etc. They came about in the early 1800s in Kentucky as “restoring” the New Testament church. They viewed all the division within Christianity as stemming from following the traditions of men. Their solution was to simply follow the Bible. The Churches of Christ is sometimes used to refer to the more Southern and conservative branch of the Restoration Movement. The split between them and the Christian Churches mostly occurred over instrumental music. The Churches of Christ tend to believe if it’s not in the Bible than it’s not authorized. Christian Churches tend to lean towards if it’s not condemned in the Bible then it’s legitimate. The Disciples of Christ are more of a true denomination with governance outside of the local congregation although I’m not as familiar with that group.
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ricofall
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I apologize if no one answered your questions yet. I am on mt tablet and cannot type a good response right now. I will if no one else has when I get to a real computer.
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ChurchSoldier
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What are you inferring God lied about, or saying THEY are inferring God lied about???When speaking with mormons, I used to say “God lied” and they would get a little upset. The word lied sounds harsh compared to “God failed”. But their god is not our God
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kimg901
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Im saying that in order for these other religions to work, God must have failed in His first attempt to set up His Church.
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ChurchSoldier
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Why would you say God failed? It was men who messed up the RC Church which caused the reformation.
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TheIrishman
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But if you believe that the “RC Church” was founded by Christ Himself, shouldn’t you take the scripture where Jesus talks to Peter and says that “even the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it”, It meaning the “RC Church”, that not even man could mess it up? Since it had Jesus protection and all.
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SteveVH
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It was Jesus Christ himself who promised to never leave the Church orphaned; to remain with it, in fact, until the end of time. He promised the Holy Spirit to guide his Church into all truth. Now if Christ remains with his Church and the Holy Spirit is guiding it into all truth how in the world do you have a total apostasy, which would be the only reason for a restoration. So either there was no apostasy or there was and therefore Christ did not keep his word. That is what seems to escape most restorationists. This is Christ’s Church (“and upon this rock I build my church”), not man’s Church. If the Church failed then Christ failed.
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ChurchSoldier
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Jesus’ church had Judas in it. Why would we think the church following wouldn’t have the elements of human falleness?
But regarding what you said; are you saying that non-RC denominations are somehow implying God lied / failed in the formation of His church?
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TheIrishman
Guest
Thats one man. Of course Satan can have power to persuade one man to do evil but not the entire church. Lets say for instance, one of your priest or (ministers or pastors or what-have you, sorry i don’t know the proper term for your leader) ends up being a criminal. Does that make your entire church falls then and apostate? Seems pretty unfair to me to put one mans sins on an entire Church.
And I’m not implying anything. Quite frankly you implied that Jesus lied when He said he would never leave his church. You stated that men messed up the Catholic Church and by doing so, Jesus Christ must have allowed this. Meaning Christ must have given up hope and decided that staying with the church was too hard.
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