Restore the Triple Tiara?

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AJV:
Are you threatening Our exalted person? We challenge you to carry out your feeble and impious threats.

Nonetheless, We, always persisting in fatherly charity, and being reluctant to break the fraternal bonds of peace and concord, do extend unto you Our fervent hope that you have enjoyed a blessed Feast of the Nativity.
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JKirkLVNV:
We regally take note of your pretensions and choose to be charitble, inviting you to share our use of what has always been OUR perogative. Put the can back on the shelf.
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You are both trying Our patience.

However, in a spirit of fraternal concession, We will admit that when We reinstitute the throne, both of you would make fine throne bearers.

So let it be written, so let it be done. Given at Undisclosed location this 27th day of December, in the Year of Our Lord 2005, the first of Our regal pretensions.
 
Dr. Bombay:
You are both trying Our patience.

However, in a spirit of fraternal concession, We will admit that when We reinstitute the throne, both of you would make fine throne bearers.

So let it be written, so let it be done. Given at Undisclosed location this 27th day of December, in the Year of Our Lord 2005, the first of Our regal pretensions.
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I feel like I’m attending the Renissance Faire on this thread!
Puts me in the mood for roasted Turkey Legs!
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I feel like I’m attending the Renissance Faire on this thread!
Puts me in the mood for roasted Turkey Legs!
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We heartily approve of roast turkey legs. And ale.

Lots of ale. 👍
 
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AJV:
Are you threatening Our exalted person? We challenge you to carry out your feeble and impious threats.

Nonetheless, We, always persisting in fatherly charity, and being reluctant to break the fraternal bonds of peace and concord, do extend unto you Our fervent hope that you have enjoyed a blessed Feast of the Nativity.
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We, Who are deeply grieved to behold the wretchedness of them that so foolishly sunder the bonds of charity which have been committed unto Us (unworthy as We are to hold so exalted an office) do hereby, moved by Our Paternal Solicitude, appeal to them that stray in darkness so far from Us to return to the Common Sheepfold, and to their obedience: to which end, we bestow on them the plenitude of Our Apostolic Benediction​

 
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JKirkLVNV:
Also, if you read the article in it’s entirety, both “hats” developed from an earlier “hat.” It doesn’t say that the mitre develped from the tiara.

Here’s the link for anyone who’s interested:

newadvent.org/cathen/10404a.htm
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The Greek kamelavkion appears to be the equivalent of the Latin camelaucum. The camelaucum is the ancestor of the tiara, beret, and academic cap: both the mortar board with tassel, and those jobs that Calvin and Knox and other Reformers are often shown as wearing.​

 
Gottle of Geer said:
## The Greek kamelavkion appears to be the equivalent of the Latin camelaucum. The camelaucum is the ancestor of the tiara, beret, and academic cap: both the mortar board with tassel, and those jobs that Calvin and Knox and other Reformers are often shown as wearing. ##
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We always enjoy your posts, Gottle, and the depth of your knowledge. So our propensity for funny looking hats can be traced to the Greeks?
 
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AJV:
…how many here would like him to/not to restore the triple tiara . Viewpoint would be helpful.
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IHS

Me! Me! Me! (waving both arms in air) I would! I would!

This is a tangible reminder of who he actually is - the supreme representative of God on earth!

The idea that regalia does not appeal to modern sensibilities is hogwash! It’s a catechetical tool, that teaches the above.
 
The pope is no longer a secular leader, why should he dress as a secular leader? Yes, he is the Vicar of Christ, but Christ did not come in glory and cloak himself in opulence. Time and time again God chose the lowly and humble. We should never forget that.

Peace,

George
 
ALL the Eastern Patriarchs wear a CROWN which looks very much like a Tiara; there are minor differences between the different rites. The Pope, PATRIARCH of the WEST, MUST restore the most ancient and traditional symbol of his Patriarchy. Thus he will not look INFERRIOR to the eastern Patriarchs and Bishops when he is standing in their midst.
 
So it’s all about looks; it’s a status symbol? I agree with the following, “The display of status symbols is usually a result of low self-esteem. The self-confident person can afford to project a modest image.” – H. Jackson Brown The pope does not need a status symbol to be respected, admired, followed and loved.

Everyone else is doing it? What did your father tell you about jumping off bridges? ”To be one’s self, and unafraid whether right or wrong, is more admirable than the easy cowardice of surrender to conformity.” – Irving Wallace

Peace,

George
 
The Hammer:
ALL the Eastern Patriarchs wear a CROWN which looks very much like a Tiara; there are minor differences between the different rites. The Pope, PATRIARCH of the WEST, MUST restore the most ancient and traditional symbol of his Patriarchy. Thus he will not look INFERRIOR to the eastern Patriarchs and Bishops when he is standing in their midst.
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(Above emphasis mine)

Well, since so many here want to emphasize that the Pope is successor to the Prince of the Apostles, I’ll remind you in the words of Elizabeth I on her death bed (she was lying on cushions on the floor, really) to her chief minister, who had just told her that “to content the people, she must go to bed”:

“Little man, little man, the word ‘must’ is not to be used to princes.”

In regards to the tiara, the pope MUST not do anything at all, if he doesn’t wish to do so. AND I would submit that he isn’t able to look inferior. He’s “standing on an invisible rock” (The Cardinal), but it can be felt if not seen. He doesn’t need the tiara at all and this pope, as well as Popes John Paul I and II, seem to have realized it.
 
Isn’t the Pope talking to the Orthodox about restoring communion and harkining back to the first 1000 years of Christianity… Do u want the Pope to look OUT OF PLACE among the ancient (and not so ancient) patriarchates? Isn’t he the “Bishop of bishops” as Tertullian calls him? It is NOT JUST for looks. It has SYMBOLIC meaning. The Triple Tiara symbolises the Bishop of Rome’s 3 Powers (which have not changed): To Teach, Goven and Sanctify. It also reminds us of the CROWN we will receive from Christ at the end of time. Also alludes to the 12 CROWNS for the 12 Apostles that Christ promised them.

Let us NOT be MINIMILISTS and so austere as to deprive the VICAR of Christ who RULES Christ KINGDOM on EARTH from his CROWN!
 
The Hammer:
Let us NOT be MINIMILISTS and so austere as to deprive the VICAR of Christ who RULES Christ KINGDOM on EARTH from his CROWN!
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WE are not denying His Holiness anything! It has been the last few popes who have exercised their prerogative not to wear a tiara! It is the popes decision, not ours and frankly I will show the pope the respect he deserves and respect his decision regardless of what that may be.

Peace,

George
 
The Hammer:
Let us NOT be MINIMILISTS and so austere as to deprive the VICAR of Christ who RULES Christ KINGDOM on EARTH from his CROWN!
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We’re not being minimilists. We wager that most of the people who responded negatively to the idea of the tiara are “smells and bells” folks. It has nothing to do with liturgical “minimalism.” And WE cannot deprive the Holy Father of anything. It is entirely within his province to wear it or not to wear it. The Church isn’t a democracy.

Does the pending reconciliation with the East mean that ALL our bishops in the Latin Church have to pitch their mitres and go buy crowns? We doubt it.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
(Above emphasis mine)

Well, since so many here want to emphasize that the Pope is successor to the Prince of the Apostles, I’ll remind you in the words of Elizabeth I on her death bed (she was lying on cushions on the floor, really) to her chief minister, who had just told her that “to content the people, she must go to bed”:

“Little man, little man, the word ‘must’ is not to be used to princes.”

In regards to the tiara, the pope MUST not do anything at all, if he doesn’t wish to do so. AND I would submit that he isn’t able to look inferior. He’s “standing on an invisible rock” (The Cardinal), but it can be felt if not seen. He doesn’t need the tiara at all and this pope, as well as Popes John Paul I and II, seem to have realized it.
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We had got so used to your use of the royal pronoun that when We were shocked not to see it. :eek: Particularly in such a regal post. 🙂
 
The Hammer:
Isn’t the Pope talking to the Orthodox about restoring communion and harkining back to the first 1000 years of Christianity… Do u want the Pope to look OUT OF PLACE among the ancient (and not so ancient) patriarchates? Isn’t he the “Bishop of bishops” as Tertullian calls him? It is NOT JUST for looks. It has SYMBOLIC meaning. The Triple Tiara symbolises the Bishop of Rome’s 3 Powers (which have not changed): To Teach, Goven and Sanctify. It also reminds us of the CROWN we will receive from Christ at the end of time. Also alludes to the 12 CROWNS for the 12 Apostles that Christ promised them.

Let us NOT be MINIMILISTS and so austere as to deprive the VICAR of Christ who RULES Christ KINGDOM on EARTH from his CROWN!
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Just a couple of points…

a) In the first 1000 years of Christianity the pope DID NOT wear the tiara. The addition of a crown to the papal headgear (derived from the camelaucum as Grottle of Geer was kind enough to point out ( 👍 ) was just appearing. It would be at least 300 years before the “tiara” had three crowns.

b) We made this point in another thread where We said:
the use of mitres in the Eastern Church in the Byzantine tradition (at least shaped liked crowns-not sure whether they use other head coverings before that) came into use representing a bishop’s temporal authority within the Ottoman Empire once the Byzantine Emperor and Empire had disappeared which is somewhere is the 1500’s . At this time other Imperial regalia- the Eagle rugs placed under the feet of a bishop, the sakkos, etc. all were adopted. Overtime, these were of course given spiritualised meanings.
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Moreover, NOT ALL the ancient (and not so ancient) patriarchates wear a ‘crown-mitre’. The Armenians wear mitres similar to our, The Syriacs wear veils, etc.

Question: Do they look inferior when they stand amongst their counterparts. Doubt it.

👍 Unity in Diversity! 👍
 
The papal tiara is first mentioned in the account of the life of Pope Constantine (708-715) in the Liber Pontificalis. Here it is called a camelaucum, which was part of the Byzantine court dress. At this time, it was constructed more like a “papal cap” made of white cloth. Pope St. Gregory the Great (d. 604) was depicted in artwork wearing such a cap.

Sometime shortly after the ninth century, an ornamented circlet (or banding) was added to the base of the cap. Whether this circlet was for decoration or to represent a crown remains uncertain. Since the pope held not only spiritual authority over the whole Church but also temporal authority over the papal states, a crown would not be necessarily inappropriate. Coins with the image of Pope Sergius III (904-11) and Pope Benedict VII (974-983) depict these popes wearing a helmet-like-cap with such decoration.

catholicherald.com/saunders/05ws/ws050421.htm
 
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