Restoring the Order of the Sacraments

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimG
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I would love to see this happen.
We had restored order on my diocese. Our new Bishop stopped it and made our confirmation program a 2 year program that can’t be started until the 8th grade. Our Confirmaton classes are getting smaller and smaller, it’s very sad.
 
Why would he do that? It makes zero sense to Chrismate years after one has been allowed to first Commune. If they’re old enough for first Communion, then they’re certainly old enough to receive the seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
To keep kids in faith formation?
He is of the school that Confirmation is a choice need to be made by young people.

I find it sad, as it is doing more harm than good, but he is the boss.
 
Or they’d wind up like half of my cousins that never bothered to go to faith formation and never got Chrismated. More than half of my Catholic family are non-practicing.
 
Ideally, in the Latin Church, confirmation should be administered at the age of reason, but the Code gives the competent authority much leeway in this regard.

Keep in mind, though, that a Catholic who has reached the age of reason requests confirmation and is prepared for it cannot be denied it, even if he or she has not reached the age set by the local bishop (or the competent authority).
 
And of course if a non-baptized 7 year old child (or older) requests baptism, he or she is to be baptized, confirmed and communed all at once…just like an adult convert…regardless of the “normal” age in the diocese.
 
Try telling that to the Bishop.
We had a kid who was prepared, he had missed his Confirmation with his class due to his father getting deployed and he had to leave the area. 1 year later, he came back. He was ready and willing, but because we had a new Bishop, with a new program it was not allowed.
Sadly, the kid was never Confirmed and his family left the Church.
 
Last edited:
twf said:
And of course if a non-baptized 7 year old child (or older) requests baptism, he or she is to be baptized, confirmed and communed all at once…just like an adult convert…regardless of the “normal” age in the diocese.
Click to expand...
One of those things I argued with our youth minister about. She said if they were already confirmed they would have no reason to continue with their faith formation classes. And my argument – besides “this is what the Church calls for” – is that if the only way you can get them to continue is to hold a sacrament hostage, there’s something wrong.
 
Wow! What a tragedy!

Who ultimately told this boy that he couldn’t be confirmed?
 
Just my oppinion. The point isnt to expand the church to as many people as possible but to have a church full of actuall practicing catholics. Think it was Fulton Sheen that stated something to the effect that its better to have a small faithful church than a large church of unfaithful.
 
I believe the Director of Religious Education for the parish and the Pastor did it.
It was not a pleasant experience for anyone in the parish office at the time.
I am sure there has to be more to the story, as I cannot imagine a Bishop being so stuck on procedure that he would completely disregard any pastoral need, but, none the less, a family has left the Church because of a bad decision.
 
We had that happen some years ago. A 9 year old child was never baptized, so he received all 3 Mysteries - Baptism, Chrismation and First Holy Eucharist.

I think his family moved away since they don’t come to church any more.
 
I read this article shortly after it showed up on the website. I thought it actually made a much better case for restoring the original simultaneous administration of the sacraments than merely restoring the order.

Conspicuously absent from the article was the reason the Western church split the sacraments of initiation into 2-3 separate events after 500 years of administering them all at once. The only explanation I’ve heard of this was not one flattering to the leadership; moreover, I’ve always thought it telling that the Eastern churches, which ultimately remain under the Pope, continue the original practice to this day.

It’s not something I ever expect to understand. I’ve tried asking questions about this, and I’m either told I’m “arguing” or “fussing.” Now I simply bite my tongue. Hard.
 
MrsAngelala said:
It’s not something I ever expect to understand. I’ve tried asking questions about this, and I’m either told I’m “arguing” or “fussing.” Now I simply bite my tongue. Hard.
Click to expand...
We had the restored order in my diocese for about 9 years, beginning in 1999, a year or so after we lost our Catholic schools. The same bishop who started it also stopped it when, 8 or 9 years later, our diocese merged with one that was having Confirmation in 10th grade. He raised the age from 7 to 12.

Because we had always had Catholic schools, there was nobody in the parish trained as catechists except those teachers who had taught in the Catholic schools and only one stepped forward and volunteered to lead a now parish/home catechetical program.

Eventually, a few more people stepped forward, myself included, but we had no teaching credentials and little training in catechetics beyond a couple of sessions given by the diocesan carechetical coordinator.

The preparation for Confirmation and First Communion was too short and the parents didn’t feel it was their place to be teaching religion, so after the two sessions of mystagogy that followed the reception of the sacraments, the kids ended up with nothing else, even though there was a program in place to assist parents with the home program the diocese had decided on. From conversations with catechists in other communities, they had the same problem. So we have almost an entire generation for whom catechesis began and ended with fewer than 40 hours of catechesis (and that’s assuming parents did at least 1 hr of work with the kids between sessions) when they were 7. Most never returned to church after receiving the sacraments. Those “kids” are now parents.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps this will be of interest to some of you.

In Evangelical Protestant churches, there is a heavy “push” to teach (catechize) young children from ages 2-10) through Sunday School, various weeknight clubs (AWANA, Pioneer, etc.), VBS (essentially about 2-3 weeks of Sunday school crammed into 2 hours a morning for a week), summer Christian camp (both day and sleepover), and many socials, fun fairs, sporting events, field trips to various events (county fair, Harlem Globetrotters, local children’s museums, etc.).

Here’s the reason, other than pure love for children and wanting to serve them because the Lord told us to do this!

Evangelical Protestants consider age 7 the “age of accountability”, and believe it’s important for a child to make a decision to accept Jesus into their heart around this age.

They believe that the older a child gets, the harder his/her heart becomes toward the Lord and His Word, and if a child isn’t trained from the beginning (see Proverbs 22.6), he/she will probably never commit their lives to Jesus Christ and become involved with His Kingdom.

I converted to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism in 2004, so I’ve been around a little while.

And I have to say, I agree entirely with the Evangelical Protestants when it comes to children and faith.

I think we need to train them FROM BIRTH in the truths of God’s Church and His Word, and gently encourage them to love Jesus and commit themselves to Him even at a young age.

I remember very very clearly praying during a children’s church and asking Jesus to come into my heart. I could take you to my childhood church and show you the exact place in the room where this happened. I remember that the “teacher” was wearing an aqua-blue suit (skirt, blouse, jacket).

I also remember about a year later speaking privately with my Sunday School teacher and asking her why I wasn’t “happy” all the time, even though I had asked Jesus to come into my heart.

Wise woman!! She told me something that has stuck with me all my life (I’m now 62), We cannot rely on our feelings, but we must have FAITH and believe in Jesus, no matter what happens.

Did any of you who are cradle Catholics ever hear this teaching from YOUR “religious education classes” or parents when you were 8 years old?

Does anyone think that Catholic Churches see older Catholics “depart from it”?

Anyway, Protestants have figured out that they have a very small window of opportunity to “train up children” and they do it. I think that in American Catholic churches, children should receive a well-planned religious education from the time they are BORN and baptized, that they should receive Jesus in Holy Communion AND be confirmed, and equally importantly, their religious education should continue until they are in 8th grade, at which time they should be transitioned into a youth group with a trained youth leader and trained youth lay sponsors.

I think this approach would go a long way towards preventing the exodus from Catholic Church that is becoming a literal flood.
 
Yes, something is very wrong. It’s almost as if people do not believe in the efficacy of the Sacrament, if they don’t realize kids need the grace growing up. If the gifts if the holy Spirit is not important.

I have taught confirmation Oreo to 7tg and 8th graders quite a bit. The kids have not been in any faith formation since the second grade. They know almost nothing, they are interested in learning even less. Postponing confirmation just so kids will come back to a program a few years later does NOT work. The kids who have parents who have worked yo teach them the faith in those intervening years admittedly do fine, they would have done better if they had the grace of the sacrament. Mist kids get little it nothing outbif it, regardless how hard teachers try.

If we restored the order and gave confirmation at the age of reading, parishes would have no excuse to have no faith formation classes in the 3rd through 6tg grade ( and above).

As yo kids in Catholic schools, that is in some ways even worse, as confirmation has become part of their 8th grade year, rite if passage . That’s how the parents view it.

It is madness, defined as doing something the same way, over and over and expecting better results.
 
Peeps said:
Anyway, Protestants have figured out that they have a very small window of opportunity to “train up children” and they do it. I think that in American Catholic churches, children should receive a well-planned religious education from the time they are BORN and baptized, that they should receive Jesus in Holy Communion AND be confirmed, and equally importantly, their religious education should continue until they are in 8th grade, at which time they should be transitioned into a youth group with a trained youth leader and trained youth lay sponsors.
Click to expand...
This is exactly right!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top