Results of introducing the Latin Mass to a "regular" parish?

[EnglishTeacher]

Has anyone had the experience of attending a typical parish with a diocesan priest, where the traditional Latin Mass was introduced as an option for Sunday Mass (in addition to Mass still being offered in the Ordinary Form at that parish)? If so, what were the consequences in the parish, both positive and negative? For example, was there any backlash from some members of the parish? Did it attract new members to the parish? Did it cause division, or was the parish supportive? I am curious.

 

[ServusHumilis]

Has anyone had the experience of attending a typical parish with a diocesan priest, where the traditional Latin Mass was introduced as an option for Sunday Mass (in addition to Mass still being offered in the Ordinary Form at that parish)? If so, what were the consequences in the parish, both positive and negative? For example, was there any backlash from some members of the parish? Did it attract new members to the parish? Did it cause division, or was the parish supportive? I am curious.

The church I go to is a diocesan parish that offers the Extraordinary Form and I prefer it to parishes that ONLY offer the EF. I can’t say what the immediate effects were of the addition of this Mass in the parish but what negative effects could there possibly be in offering the Catholic Mass in your parish? What I do know is that people come from all around, some driving for over an hour and at least one crossing international borders for it. All these extra people certainly help the parish financially. There does seem to be some attendees of either Mass with some sort of attitude problem or resentment towards others attending the other respective Mass, but honestly only one or two really from each and that is their personal problem anyways. Certainly no one really vocal or the priest would put them in their place, as I’ve seen before. The Mass is the Mass is the Mass. I attend both Masses at the Church and find the priest to offer some of the most reverent Ordinary Form Masses I’ve been to.

Come to think of it I’ve also cantored a Mass which was offered in a parish that has the EF Mass perhaps 2 or 3 times a year and the attendance was huge. According to Cardinal Hoyos, Pope Benedict wanted to see the EF offered in every parish. I wish it was.

 

[phil19034]

I’m not aware of any parish where there are negatives. It’s no different than offering a Spanish Mass or weekly youth choir mass. People who are interested will attend. If they don’t want to, they won’t.

The only way I could see it as a potential issue is if the priest cut an OF mass and exchanged it with an EF mass, which I don’t think he can typically do.

If the EF is in addition, then it will only bring blessings.

One parish I know in Philadelphia has seen a return more using the communion rail during the OF for at least one OF Sunday Mass (if not all of them).

God Bless.

 

[christofirst]

One of the parishes in the L.A. Archdiocese has been staffed by the Norbertine Fathers for a good ten years now, and they added the Latin Mass to the regular schedule. This parish is in a relatively poor area, and it seems to me the addition of the Latin Mass has been beneficial. People from outside the parish started coming for this Mass (myself included, for a while), and the support of additional finances and volunteers has been a help. I’m not sure how the regular parishioners feel, but they still have plenty of Masses in the vernacular (English and Spanish) to choose from, so it seems to work out well all around.

 

[HelenRose]

Has anyone had the experience of attending a typical parish with a diocesan priest, where the traditional Latin Mass was introduced as an option for Sunday Mass (in addition to Mass still being offered in the Ordinary Form at that parish)? If so, what were the consequences in the parish, both positive and negative? For example, was there any backlash from some members of the parish? Did it attract new members to the parish? Did it cause division, or was the parish supportive? I am curious.

My church is a small Mission Church in Western Colorado. It is made up of farmers and retirees, coal miners and other hard working people. We only have one priest who has his hands full taking care of both this Mission Church and the Parish Church. We have Mass at 8:00 A.M. and after Mass he has to make a mad dash of fifteen miles to give an English Mass at 10:00 a.m. and then a Spanish Mass at 12:00 p.m. So a Traditional Mass would not be something that we would place on his shoulders.

But…

The first Sunday of each month my husband and I sing most of the Mass parts in Latin. Kyrie in Greek if the priest does not pray “Lord Have Mercy”
We sing the Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. We sing the Proclamation in English. Often we will sing Ave Maria in Latin or sing Salve, Regina in Latin.

I do not accompany the Latin except for the very quiet melody line to help keep us in tune as neither one of us has perfect pitch.

When we first started doing this several years ago there was a small number of people who grumbled a little. They don’t grumble any more. The congregation now look upon the First Sunday of each month as being special.

I think that if presented with love and beauty people will respond to the beauty of Latin.

The problem comes when people have the idea that something is being pushed and forced on them.

I truly believe that given patience and time the beautiful and truth of Latin will be loved and appreciated. It does take time. The Church as been at this for 2,000 years and has all the time in the world. This blip of so-so music will pass naturally and quietly without fan fare if we don’t make a big fuss about it. Time has a way of weeding out the mediocre.

Personally, I agree with many people about some the songs that pass as music these days but when I am not in charge of the music, I smile sweetly and sing as clear and as well as I can, given the circumstances.

As for the Traditional Latin Mass. I think that we will save that for the larger city churches where there are more priests trained and are available to preside over a TLM.

I do believe that their are a number of people in the Parish who would like to see a Traditional Latin Mass from time to time but they are far to caring of our priest to demand such a responsibility.

 

[LoyalViews]

A parish here, not too far away from me, added a TLM at 5:15pm on Sunday evenings. There was no opposition, and I heard a great deal of “It’s about time they brought back the Latin.”

Median age is 25. About 200 a week in a community of 700.

 

[Elizium23]

In my diocese, pastors are not allowed to cancel an OF Mass to offer an EF in its place. So, if the EF is to be offered, then it must be added to the busy Sunday schedule. Also, priests are already stretched thin by offering the typical complement of Masses on weekends. For the two priests in my parish, with six Masses between them, adding a seventh Mass would be difficult to impossible. For this reason alone, the EF is rare in diocesan parishes here. Thankfully we do have an FSSP parish operating.

 

[Big_Feet]

One of the parishes in the L.A. Archdiocese has been staffed by the Norbertine Fathers for a good ten years now, and they added the Latin Mass to the regular schedule. This parish is in a relatively poor area, and it seems to me the addition of the Latin Mass has been beneficial. People from outside the parish started coming for this Mass (myself included, for a while), and the support of additional finances and volunteers has been a help. I’m not sure how the regular parishioners feel, but they still have plenty of Masses in the vernacular (English and Spanish) to choose from, so it seems to work out well all around.

You speak of the “Latin Mass.” Do you mean the Ordinary Form in Latin, or the Extraordinary Form (1962 Missal)
Thanks for the clarification!

 

[ProVobis]

A parish here, not too far away from me, added a TLM at 5:15pm on Sunday evenings. There was no opposition, and I heard a great deal of “It’s about time they brought back the Latin.”

Median age is 25. About 200 a week in a community of 700.

From my experience, attendance-wise that’s not a problem. However, and I read this under another thread, retirees tend to contribute more, and unless you can get the elderly, most of whom were unfortunately raised believing (and probably hoping) Latin was dead, to come, it won’t make sense from an economic standpoint to introduce more TLMs. My hope is that these young continue their support of the TLM in years to come.

 

[corsair]

The first parish that we introduced the TLM to, and backed by the pastor, ran into some problems with the parish council. I was asked to address them to reassure them that we were NOT trying to take over their church. The pastor backed us and reminded the council that they served at his pleasure and we advisory only.

That lasted for almost 4years. When our priest was transferred to Alaska we began again with another priest but this time the parish council had no complaints.

There were several ocassions where our flyers and posters were torn down and many times when things were “misplaced”. But we persevered.

At my next parish, we wound up agreeing to rent the church from the OF pastor for a healthy fee which shored up his financial problems. These folks have welcomed us and we seem to be doing well this time. Not without a few rough spots but certainly good enough for now.

 

[Wackotrad]

The EF was introduced to our parish nearly 20 years ago, and it was definitely a rough transition for all…for a LONG time! At the time the parish was considered inner city, barely had 100 families, and was perpetually in danger of being closed. So the Archdiocese brought the EF to this parish as a way to expand the rosters and to give the EF a permanent home (up until that time it had been shuffled around various churches in the city).

Anyway, the parish was a rather liberal, aging one, and the parishioners resented like crazy these “fanatical” EF types with their large families and peculiar ways invading “their” parish. The trads themselves weren’t much better and basically refused to have anything to do with wider parish activities and events. I’m sure they would have greatly preferred to have an EF only parish. In the early years the EF was administered by an FSSP priest, and that didn’t help either, because he wouldn’t/couldn’t say the OF form of the Mass, and the parish’s pastor couldn’t/wouldn’t say the EF Mass, so all that perpetuated the divisions within the parish.

Eventually the FSSP was kicked out and the parish ended up with a single pastor who said both Masses. He was an orthodox, dynamic priest who was able to get all sides of the parish to come together. The neighborhood actually has become quite a hip place to live, so the parish has a lot of young singles and families now. The EF has had a terrific influence on the OF in our parish, and we’re now known as the most liturgically and musically beautiful parish in the city for ALL types of Masses.

So even though we had MANY rough years, eventually things calmed down, and we have a terrific parish. Most of the super fanatical trads have gone elsewhere, and the angry liberals who eventually realized that the trads weren’t going anywhere, have taken off for other parishes. I don’t mean that to sound gloating, but it’s left us with a growing, happy parish where most parishioners get along and would happily attend any Mass, not just “their” Mass, on any given weekend. It took many years to get to this relatively happy place, but we’re here now, and it’s a terrific place to be!

 

[Tigg]

Pope Benedict wanted to see the EF offered in every parish. I wish it was.

I’d just be happy if were offered in any parish in our entire diocese. It isn’t.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

In my diocese, pastors are not allowed to cancel an OF Mass to offer an EF in its place. So, if the EF is to be offered, then it must be added to the busy Sunday schedule. Also, priests are already stretched thin by offering the typical complement of Masses on weekends. For the two priests in my parish, with six Masses between them, adding a seventh Mass would be difficult to impossible. For this reason alone, the EF is rare in diocesan parishes here. Thankfully we do have an FSSP parish operating.

This is what I wonder about; I don’t know whether our diocese has a rule like this. If it does, that would partly explain why none of the parishes in town offer the EF, even the very traditional one that I attend. Our priest already offers a Saturday evening Mass and two Sunday morning Masses, so it wouldn’t really make sense to add yet a fourth Sunday Mass. It would just spread the attendance thinner at all the Masses, and make the priest very tired.

Really, I think that’s an unfortunate rule–at least for those parishes who have multiple Sunday Mass times. If a parish is already offering three options for Sunday Mass times, it would not be unreasonable to have one of them be a Latin Mass. It would still leave two Sunday options for those who prefer the ordinary form.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

From my experience, attendance-wise that’s not a problem. However, and I read this under another thread, retirees tend to contribute more, and unless you can get the elderly, most of whom were unfortunately raised believing (and probably hoping) Latin was dead, to come, it won’t make sense from an economic standpoint to introduce more TLMs. My hope is that these young continue their support of the TLM in years to come.

Yes, this is very true, and unfortunately it is something that priests have to consider. They would have to weigh whether it is worth potentially shaking up the parish and driving away those who carry the parish financially.

For some reason (and of course there are exceptions) younger people don’t contribute financially as much to the parish as the Baby Boomer generation and the elderly, and are also less likely to be involved in parish life. Over the next couple of decades, as the older generations dwindle, Catholic parishes are going to find themselves in tighter and tighter straits unless younger people step up to the plate. (But that’s probably a subject for a separate thread.)

 

[EnglishTeacher]

The EF was introduced to our parish nearly 20 years ago, and it was definitely a rough transition for all…for a LONG time! At the time the parish was considered inner city, barely had 100 families, and was perpetually in danger of being closed. So the Archdiocese brought the EF to this parish as a way to expand the rosters and to give the EF a permanent home (up until that time it had been shuffled around various churches in the city).

Anyway, the parish was a rather liberal, aging one, and the parishioners resented like crazy these “fanatical” EF types with their large families and peculiar ways invading “their” parish. The trads themselves weren’t much better and basically refused to have anything to do with wider parish activities and events. I’m sure they would have greatly preferred to have an EF only parish. In the early years the EF was administered by an FSSP priest, and that didn’t help either, because he wouldn’t/couldn’t say the OF form of the Mass, and the parish’s pastor couldn’t/wouldn’t say the EF Mass, so all that perpetuated the divisions within the parish.

Eventually the FSSP was kicked out and the parish ended up with a single pastor who said both Masses. He was an orthodox, dynamic priest who was able to get all sides of the parish to come together. The neighborhood actually has become quite a hip place to live, so the parish has a lot of young singles and families now. The EF has had a terrific influence on the OF in our parish, and we’re now known as the most liturgically and musically beautiful parish in the city for ALL types of Masses.

So even though we had MANY rough years, eventually things calmed down, and we have a terrific parish. Most of the super fanatical trads have gone elsewhere, and the angry liberals who eventually realized that the trads weren’t going anywhere, have taken off for other parishes. I don’t mean that to sound gloating, but it’s left us with a growing, happy parish where most parishioners get along and would happily attend any Mass, not just “their” Mass, on any given weekend. It took many years to get to this relatively happy place, but we’re here now, and it’s a terrific place to be!

That’s a really interesting story, with a happy ending. I am glad your parish was able to stick it out, and find leadership that unified rather than divided.

 

[asia53]

I’m not aware of any parish where there are negatives. It’s no different than offering a Spanish Mass or weekly youth choir mass. People who are interested will attend. If they don’t want to, they won’t.

Exactly what happened at my Parish, Saturday morning Mass became the EF, a little over 2 years ago.

Those who like–come—those who don’t like----don’t come.

 

[Ignatius]

Has anyone had the experience of attending a typical parish with a diocesan priest, where the traditional Latin Mass was introduced as an option for Sunday Mass (in addition to Mass still being offered in the Ordinary Form at that parish)? If so, what were the consequences in the parish, both positive and negative? For example, was there any backlash from some members of the parish? Did it attract new members to the parish? Did it cause division, or was the parish supportive? I am curious.

Oh yes, there are certainly people in every parish that will vehemently resist any change to what they are comfortable with and used to. The sad thing is that they are so hateful and bitter about it. All we can do is pray they they realize the peace that comes with tolerance or those who see things differently than they do.

 

[ProVobis]

I’d just be happy if were offered in any parish in our entire diocese. It isn’t.

Perhaps a call to the FSSP is in order? If no one inquires, they’ll probably presume no one is interested. Just sayin…

 

[corsair]

Fr. John Berg told me several years ago that requesting that FSSP come into the Diocese is nice BUT the invitation must come from the Bishop first. Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest told me the same thing.

If you are serious about it; form a committee, get a petition started, submit it to the Bishop and be patient. While you are waiting gather together items that you’ll need for a Mass. Form a schola, get good training and offer to sing at your local parish for the experience. Train Altar boys.

Gather your group at least monthly for the Rosary and sharing of what has been accomplished and what needs to be done. Hold a potluck once in a while. Bring in a speaker.

And never give up.

 

[phil19034]

This is what I wonder about; I don’t know whether our diocese has a rule like this. If it does, that would partly explain why none of the parishes in town offer the EF, even the very traditional one that I attend. Our priest already offers a Saturday evening Mass and two Sunday morning Masses, so it wouldn’t really make sense to add yet a fourth Sunday Mass. It would just spread the attendance thinner at all the Masses, and make the priest very tired.

Really, I think that’s an unfortunate rule–at least for those parishes who have multiple Sunday Mass times. If a parish is already offering three options for Sunday Mass times, it would not be unreasonable to have one of them be a Latin Mass. It would still leave two Sunday options for those who prefer the ordinary form.

I might be wrong, but I think all dioceses have that rule. Roman Rite Catholics have a “right” to the Ordinary Form of the Mass. The Extraordinary Form is “extra.” So if a priest has 5 Mass times on Sunday for the Ordinary form and 2 on Saturday evening, all packed, and not enough priests; he can’t simply can’t (for example) cancel an OF Mass serving 600 people for an EF Mass serving initially 25 people.

However, if the Sunday mass times are growing thin, he would trim down and then eventually add an EF Mass.

Another two options, which two parishes near my parents did are:

1. one parish does an EF Mass Saturday night, after the OF Saturday mass. However, he keeps the EF Mass technically as a “private” mass which he invites the parish & public too. He keeps it private so he and the diocese doesn’t need to worry about finding a replacement if he can’t say mass one week due to retreat, funeral, etc. He also prays another EF mass on Wednesdays. He actually started with Wednesdays and then added Saturday night. So if you can’t get a Sunday Mass, try for a weekday EF mass first.
2. the other parish (the one I was baptized and confirmed in) has an EF mass once a month and a priest from another parish (who loves to pray the EF) comes to do it. The parish now has 5 OF Masses on Sunday & 1 on Saturday, with 4 priests, plus one retired priest, however, they also have a twin parish with another 3 Sunday Masses. So they do 8 Sunday Masses with 4 priests, plus one retired priest. So the EF makes it 9 Masses for the week they do it. So one from another parish comes.

If you want the EF, help you pastor find a way to fit it in. start out with Sat nights, once a month, or weekdays if Sundays don’t work.

God Bless