Resume relations?

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mary_s_kid

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To make a long story short… My husband had an affair last year. He made it a point of being very sorry, stopped seeing the woman, changed jobs (she worked where he worked) started going to therapy, both marital and individual , for his porn addiction. I forgave him after several months. This was all very excruciating. I became pregnant in January. My husband experienced some stressors and resumed contact (read sexual) with his affair partner. I desperately wanted to seperate and wanted nothing more to do with him but I wanted to protect my four other children from finding out what their very Catholic father had done. I was and am afraid it would traumatize them and they would equate God with their earthly father as someone who is not to be trusted. I decided to stay in the marriage for their sake and things have gotten a bit better. (Retrovaille wkend was very helpful) I had a beautiful baby girl in October. My question is that now we can resume relations I don’t want to because I don’t want to get pregnant again. We use NFP. With this history, I don’t trust him and if any contact with the old affair partner occurred again, I would seperate. There would be nothing left to save and I would no longer be able to protect my children from this. But right now we are in the process of trying to salvage the marriage.
What would being celibate do to a man with a porn addiction?

Any respectful thoughts are appreciated.

I didn’t mean for the post to be so long…thanks for reading.
 
Definitely, talk to a priest. And I would say continue to get good Catholic counseling for the 2 of you. And you are correct that celibacy might not be the best situation for a man struggling with an addiction to pornography.

God bless you
 
One thing I’ve found over the past few years through blogs and e-mail threads is that many, many (dare I say nearly all) men, even Catholics, have been corrupted by porn at sometime during their life. It is so insidious and so easily available in our society that it makes it almost impossible to resist. My advice to them, and what worked for me, is to give yourself to the blessed Mother. Your husband can only benefit from her help. If he has the spiritual discipline, he should consecrate himself to her immaculate heart using St. Louis De Montfort’s method…it is very powerful and will definitely help him fight his addiction. Good on you for staying with the marriage…it would be a very difficult thing to do.

Dennis
 
With all respect, I know what the church teaches regarding marital relations and would assume my priest would reiterate that teaching. If he didn’t I would question his faithfulness to the church. I’m am not willing to take the chance of getting pregnant again and then possibly, down the road, having to raise 6 children by myself instead of 5. Our therapists are Christian and are very geared to saving our marriage. We looked into Catholic therapists and none of them are close enough to us to be feasible. Besides that, they don’t accept our insurance. I suppose I’m grasping at straws, hoping someone on this forum would shed some light on the situation in a way that I haven’t thought of yet.
 
True love is unconditional.

Just the fact that you don’t trust him and are anticipating his falling a third time speaks volumes of how much therapy you still need to undergo (hopefully together, but if not, at least for yourself).

Find a catholic therapist to help you figure out how to live with this addiction your husband has.

You say Retrouvaille was very helpful, so why are you anticipating his doing this again?

Besides you say you don’t want to resume relations because you don’t want to get pregnant.
You don’t say you don’t love him anymore.
You don’t say you don’t want to be with him sexually anymore.

You say you practice NFP, and if so, then why would you have to withhold relations forever in order not to conceive?

You, personally, are not remaining open to life. This is not good for you, personally, let alone your relationship.

You are allowing his problem to affect your spiritual future and you need to put a stop to this - by your own actions. That’s why I suggest your own therapy. Take care of yourself so you can take care of your children and also help your husband. You are his wife, you are obliged to help save his soul too.

Celibate marriages are only acceptable when both parties agree to offer up that aspect of their marriage in order to better serve the Lord. It’s kind of an extreme version of fasting for souls in purgatory or other spiritual causes. The intent behind the decision to remain celebate must be God-centered not self-centered. Right now, what you’ve described is not a legitimate reason to introduce celibacy to your marriage.
 
Respectfully responding then, since you know Church teaching on this matter:
mary's kid:
I’m am not willing to take the chance of getting pregnant again
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Translation: I do not trust God. I am no longer open to life according to His plan for me. I do not trust NFP.
and then possibly, down the road, having to raise 6 children by myself instead of 5.
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Translation: If my husband lets me down again, I’m leaving him. I give up on our marriage. It will be my choice to remove his children from him. It will be my choice to raise my children on my own.

I assume, also, since you are a good Catholic that you accept you will not be free to marry again or enter into any other intimate relationships.

And then I’d ask, if God intends to entrust one more soul to your loving care even without your husband but with the love of his/her siblings, how could you deny Him this?
Our therapists are Christian and are very geared to saving our marriage. We looked into Catholic therapists and none of them are close enough to us to be feasible. Besides that, they don’t accept our insurance.
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Gosh, if you’re already receiving Christian therapy by people who are in support of saving your marriage then why are you resisting their help? Why are you bracing yourself for the worst rather than living in the here and now working toward rebuilding the foundation your marriage needs so that there won’t be a next time?

My son’s Christian therapist wasn’t on our plan either. We paid full price rather than take him to a non-Christian therapist. We gave up money from our food and clothing budget to pay for it ($111 per session vs $10 copay) but it was well worth it. We prayed and trusted God would provide and he did. My son is on maintenance therapy only for the next year (maybe 2 sessions left, 6 months a part).

But given you already have people fighting for you marriage at an affordable rate and you don’t believe the marriage can be save with their support then I don’t see how paying more money for a Catholic therapist would make any difference.
I suppose I’m grasping at straws, hoping someone on this forum would shed some light on the situation in a way that I haven’t thought of yet.
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It sounds more to me like you don’t trust your husband, you don’t trust the therapists, you don’t trust our Lord, so you’re psyching yourself up to be a single mom before you even have to cross that bridge. Why are you giving up on him?
 
I will pray for you. But one thing you need to remember is that when you have relations with your husband, you sleep with everyone he slept with and they slept with and so on and so on…

Please be careful.You have a baby to think of now.
~ Kathy ~
 
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Catholic2003:
The Church teaches that you are not obligated to resume marital relations after the infidelity of your husband.

This has been discussed on other threads:

No Sex!!!

Wife Went Astray…

My marriage is over

Incorrect answer on seperation
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Hold up. Those threads are circumstances unlike the OP here.

You are not required to resume relations if the offending party is not seeking to change, is not remorseful, has not sought forgiveness, is not seeking therapy to correct the disorder, etc…

Her husband is remorseful, is trying to change, is going to therapy to help in this matter, want to save his marriage, etc…
 
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YinYangMom:
Hold up. Those threads are circumstances unlike the OP here.

You are not required to resume relations if the offending party is not seeking to change, is not remorseful, has not sought forgiveness, is not seeking therapy to correct the disorder, etc…

Her husband is remorseful, is trying to change, is going to therapy to help in this matter, want to save his marriage, etc…
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There is no way to “undo” the sin of adultery. Thus, the remorse, therapy, etc., doesn’t obligate the innocent spouse to resume marital relations as far as the Church canon law is concerned.
 
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Catholic2003:
There is no way to “undo” the sin of adultery. Thus, the remorse, therapy, etc., doesn’t obligate the innocent spouse to resume marital relations as far as the Church canon law is concerned.
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i wish the CC would be more explicit in its teaching about this. in THIS DAY AND AGE, there are so many diseases flying around, it is crazy.

but there are so many tests and medical ways to be screened and treated.

the CC teaces to “forgive”, but i dont think it has specifically addressed HIV and STDs when it comes to adultery, and given SPECIFIC guidelines to handle it.

OK, so the innocent spouse forgives, they reconcile, and move on and have sexual relations. now that spouse is sleeping with EVERY person that the adulterous’ spouses’ lover has slept with. to be very very certain a person doesnt have HIV, they need blood tests every 6 months for at least 18 months.

the church just cannot require that the innocent spouse have sex again and be subjected to HIV or STDs. there should be DEFINITIVE PROOF that the guilty spouse is disease free.

i.e. “the innocent spouse has the right to request extensive bloodwork and/or immunoscreening assays, as well as Herpes and any other known STD testing results before resuming the marital act. failure to provide these results subjects the innocent spouse to unnecessary harms, and cannot be justified. positive results for any short-term, lifelong and treatable ot untreatable diseases are grounds to sever the marital act, as there can be no justified reason to infect an unwilling person. in the case of treatable diseases, only after treatment and definitive proof that the guilty spouse is disease free, the marital act can resume at the discretion of the innocent spouse”.

if the CC gave guidelines like that, it would be somewhat easier to work with. i dont know where the CC has adressed STDs in cases of adultery, and the actions the innocent spouse may take to secure their well-being.
 
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BioCatholic:
if the CC gave guidelines like that, it would be somewhat easier to work with. i dont know where the CC has adressed STDs in cases of adultery, and the actions the innocent spouse may take to secure their well-being.
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The innocent spouse may impose whatever conditions he or she feels sufficient for reconciliation. Alternatively, the innocent spouse my refuse reconciliation altogether. From the Old Catholic Encylopedia article on Divorce (in Moral Theology):
There is, however, never any obligation of justice to receive again the guilty party. The most that some theologians recognize is any obligation of justice when the party originally innocent has meanwhile become guilty of the same crime. The innocent party always retains the right in justice to recall or to demand the return of the guilty party. If the innocent husband or wife wishes to give up this right forever, then he or she can enter a religious order, or he may receive Holy orders, without the necessity of consent on the part of the guilty wife or husband who has been dismissed, or without any further obligation being imposed upon this party (III Decretal., xxxii, 15, 16). The guilty party can, however, proceed to the religious life or to the reception of Holy orders only with the consent of the innocent. This consent must either be granted expressly or be deduced with certainty from the constant refusal to be reconciled. It is the business of ecclesiastical authority to decice in any case, whether such certainty exists or not. A further obligation, such as the vow of perpetual chastity, is not imposed upon the innocent party, but the freedom to remarry is allowed after the death of the other spouse (cf. III Decretal., xxxii, 19; Wernz, op. cit., n. 710), not. 126; St. Alphonsus, VI, n. 969).
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Your husband, if he claims to be a Catholic still, needs to submit to some very strict Penance and Discipline.
As for you, there is no reason to have relations with one that has not yet proven himself after doing what CHRIST said is the one reason for divorce. For a man to use his wife for relations and to not act in every other way like a husband is a theft, no less than a vampire taking lifeblood. It isn’t about forgiveness - you are worth more than to be abused.
Let him vow to undergo a season of serious Penance, then, after that, see if he doesn’t value you more highly in accordance with penitential sacrifices made. He needs to get his lust-blurred focus back upon the LORD JESUS CHRIST, lest he lose his soul forever.
There are principles that cannot be set aside - lest his soul itself be thus tossed away, rather than held tight by Discipline. GOD will take care of your children. Look always to the Church’s DIVINE SPOUSE, and your children will learn to remember their HEAVENLY FATHER.
 
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YinYangMom:
Respectfully responding then, since you know Church teaching on this matter:

Translation: I do not trust God. I am no longer open to life according to His plan for me. I do not trust NFP.

Translation: If my husband lets me down again, I’m leaving him. I give up on our marriage. It will be my choice to remove his children from him. It will be my choice to raise my children on my own.

I assume, also, since you are a good Catholic that you accept you will not be free to marry again or enter into any other intimate relationships.

And then I’d ask, if God intends to entrust one more soul to your loving care even without your husband but with the love of his/her siblings, how could you deny Him this?

Gosh, if you’re already receiving Christian therapy by people who are in support of saving your marriage then why are you resisting their help? Why are you bracing yourself for the worst rather than living in the here and now working toward rebuilding the foundation your marriage needs so that there won’t be a next time?

My son’s Christian therapist wasn’t on our plan either. We paid full price rather than take him to a non-Christian therapist. We gave up money from our food and clothing budget to pay for it ($111 per session vs $10 copay) but it was well worth it. We prayed and trusted God would provide and he did. My son is on maintenance therapy only for the next year (maybe 2 sessions left, 6 months a part).

But given you already have people fighting for you marriage at an affordable rate and you don’t believe the marriage can be save with their support then I don’t see how paying more money for a Catholic therapist would make any difference.

It sounds more to me like you don’t trust your husband, you don’t trust the therapists, you don’t trust our Lord, so you’re psyching yourself up to be a single mom before you even have to cross that bridge. Why are you giving up on him?
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I’ve read many of our posts, your pompous preaching is innapropriate here. Mutual trust and attraction are neccessary for intimacy, any human being can tell you this. What is she supposed to just lie there, lie back and think of england just to be ‘open to life’. If a man is continueing to have and affair, then bringing a child into that situation is not a good idea. Work on the marriage, then resume ‘relations’.
 
Perhaps the decision to resume relations is not so cut and dry. Wholeheartedly, working on your marriage, there may be times you just feel too hurt, scared, overwhelmed to give yourself in this way. Your husband, if properly remorseful, should be patient and understand as you work through your own issues resulting from his infidelity. But at another time you may feel “loving” towards your husband. I don’t think you should refrain from relations because you made a prior decision to. In essence, I think you should live one day at a time, without any “decisions” that would prohibit you being open to following the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Remember God’s ways are not our ways. Considering that the wounds are directly in your marital bed, it is in your marital bed, that most likely some healing is meant to take place. WHEN that is, is in God’s time. But maybe you could trustingly attempt to remain open to the possibility.

God bless you and those He has placed in your care.
 
cynic said:
I’ve read many of our posts, your pompous preaching is innapropriate here. Mutual trust and attraction are neccessary for intimacy, any human being can tell you this. What is she supposed to just lie there, lie back and think of england just to be ‘open to life’. If a man is continueing to have and affair, then bringing a child into that situation is not a good idea. Work on the marriage, then resume ‘relations’.
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Then you should already know that I would never suggest a woman just lie back for anything. In fact, more times than not I would recommend a woman refrain from relations until the matter is resolved.

This particular situation is different in that they are in Christian therapy, he wants to save the marriage, the therapists want to help - she has support to get her past her trust issues. That’s the bottom line. Certainly she doesn’t have to resume relations asap but she is obliged to move toward resuming relations. Imposing celibacy in the marriage is not acceptable which is the question she raised in her original post.
 
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YinYangMom:
It sounds more to me like you don’t trust your husband, you don’t trust the therapists, you don’t trust our Lord, so you’re psyching yourself up to be a single mom before you even have to cross that bridge. Why are you giving up on him?
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Have you ever been the victim of adultery? Do you know what it’s like to be betrayed in this way? You seem to be discounted the incredible emotional pain this woman has to be going through

I have been there but not in a situation as difficult as the OP describes. My husband told me 7 years after the fact. It was long since over. It still was absolutely devastating. I chose to forgive him, we went to retrouvaille (Fo this and other things related to my husband alcoholism) and our marriage healed over time.

Living without being able to trust the one you love makes you feel like your going crazy. When my husband was still drinking I never knew what was a lie and what was the truth. It makes you paranoid, it makes you question your own judgement.

Eventually if you want to save your marraige you will have to let yourself be vulnerable again. Is he still viewing porn? If that is still going on, then I’m sure your still feeling like he is betraying you and that makes it close to impossible to heal. My husband was addicted to porn several years back. I know how hard it can be break from that but he has to be making at least a serious effort to try.

What kind of changes has he made to reassure it’s really over? As far as NFP, so you know how to use it properly? I have used NFP for 9 years without becoming pregnant. I have a heart condition that would make another pregnancy fatal.

Also for your safety has he been checked for any STD’s?
 
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rayne89:
Have you ever been the victim of adultery? Do you know what it’s like to be betrayed in this way? You seem to be discounted the incredible emotional pain this woman has to be going through

I have been there but not in a situation as difficult as the OP describes. My husband told me 7 years after the fact. It was long since over. It still was absolutely devastating. I chose to forgive him, we went to retrouvaille (Fo this and other things related to my husband alcoholism) and our marriage healed over time.

Living without being able to trust the one you love makes you feel like your going crazy. When my husband was still drinking I never knew what was a lie and what was the truth. It makes you paranoid, it makes you question your own judgement.

Eventually if you want to save your marraige you will have to let yourself be vulnerable again. Is he still viewing porn? If that is still going on, then I’m sure your still feeling like he is betraying you and that makes it close to impossible to heal. My husband was addicted to porn several years back. I know how hard it can be break from that but he has to be making at least a serious effort to try.

What kind of changes has he made to reassure it’s really over? As far as NFP, so you know how to use it properly? I have used NFP for 9 years without becoming pregnant. I have a heart condition that would make another pregnancy fatal.

Also for your safety has he been checked for any STD’s?
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What an excellent post. Especially from someone who has been there.
My heart goes out to you. And all spouses who have had to endure the pain of adultery. I cannot imagine.
 
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