Rethinking married priests to end vocation shortage

[AdriannaJean]

Hey Everyone,

I’ve been travelling for the past couple of weeks and it has been made very plain to me that the Church in Ireland is dying. All the priests are old enough to be retired but there is no one to replace them so they continue working and then they don’t have enough energy to run programs for the youth and the result is empty churches with the few parishioners being elderly. It seems that in 10 years or so there will be almost no Catholic Church at all…

Then I started wondering about why we have no new priests. And it hit me that more men would become priests if they could still get married and have children. With the church’s authority to bind and loose couldn’t they change it back to the way it was centuries ago that priests could marry? Priests can marry in rites other than the Latin Rite so why don’t we change that? Change is needed or else we’re going to die out!

Surely the drawbacks of having married priests are not worth the slippery slope the Church finds itself in now.

 

[Zundrah]

There are not enough people going into clergy!

I wish I could take their place for them… I would love to but how can I!? I can’t…
All I can do is pray.

bless you…

xxx jennifer xxx

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hey Everyone,

I’ve been travelling for the past couple of weeks and it has been made very plain to me that the Church in Ireland is dying. All the priests are old enough to be retired but there is no one to replace them so they continue working and then they don’t have enough energy to run programs for the youth and the result is empty churches with the few parishioners being elderly. It seems that in 10 years or so there will be almost no Catholic Church at all…

Then I started wondering about why we have no new priests. And it hit me that more men would become priests if they could still get married and have children. With the church’s authority to bind and loose couldn’t they change it back to the way it was centuries ago that priests could marry? Priests can marry in rites other than the Latin Rite so why don’t we change that? Change is needed or else we’re going to die out!

Surely the drawbacks of having married priests are not worth the slippery slope the Church finds itself in now.

I guess it is that time again. It seems that there are multiple threads over the past couple of weeks on this.

It pops up every couple of months and we give the same replies.

Ordaining married men to the priesthood will not fix any shortage. Every group that admits married men to the ministry/clergy is hurting just as much as the Catholic Church. Just look, there are already Churches within the Catholic Communion (the Byzantine Catholic Churches just to name one group) that ordain married men to the priesthood and it has not cured any shortage there.

There are many issue that need to be addressed before the Church could even consider doing this. Such as pay, insurance, education of children, housing at the seminary, the idea of most of the laity that a priest is there 24/7 for whatever they want.

One question though, how is this an issue of Moral Theology when it is a matter of discipline within the Latin Catholic Church?

 

[1ke]

Then I started wondering about why we have no new priests. And it hit me that more men would become priests if they could still get married and have children.

Would they?

If this were true there would be no crisis in the Orthodox Churches and in protestant denominations. But, there is a clergy shortage in the West that is not limited to the Catholic Church.

With the church’s authority to bind and loose couldn’t they change it back to the way it was centuries ago that priests could marry? Priests can marry in rites other than the Latin Rite so why don’t we change that?

A quick clarification:

Priests have NEVER been able to marry, not in any Rite or in the Catholic or Orthodox Churches.

In times past, and in some Rites today, married men may be ordained. Once ordained, a man may not marry. And, you also have to understand that in the early days when married men were ordained most of the time they did not continue to live with their spouse. The spouse might go into a religious order for women or continue to live in the world, but the man would “provide for” the wife and children and then take up ministry.

Change is needed or else we’re going to die out!

There is no shortage of priests worldwide. In fact, vocations are flourishing in many nations.

There is a shortage of priests in Western countries who have become secularized and do not heed God’s call. And, vocations are flourishing in specific diocese which are very orthodox, have strong leadership in the Bishop, and promote a Catholic culture: Lincoln, Nebraska, Arlington, VA, Peoria, IL

God will always provide what we need. The Church will not die out.

Surely the drawbacks of having married priests are not worth the slippery slope the Church finds itself in now.

The Church has “been there, done that” and has indeed discerned that there are many, many “drawbacks” of married priests.

And, again, this shortage of religious vocations is not limited to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. It exists in Churches and non-Catholic denominations that already have married clergy.

calvin.edu/news/2004-05/clergy_shortage.htm

thefund.org/about/press_coverage.phtml?pressID=6

 

[stringbeanduck]

Priests are in a sense married to the church. Their vocation is to remain faithful church and the people they serve and the Lord. Married protestant pastors that are married, often come into problems that interfere with their church duties. The church allowed priests to be married before, yet it didn’t work. Trust the church that having married Priests will not solve the vocation shortage, but cause more problems.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Priests are in a sense married to the church. Their vocation is to remain faithful church and the people they serve and the Lord. Married protestant pastors that are married, often come into problems that interfere with their church duties. The church allowed priests to be married before, yet it didn’t work. Trust the church that having married Priests will not solve the vocation shortage, but cause more problems.

I am sorry but I keep hearing this from the laity, I have yet to hear it from a priest.

The Catholic Church has married priests. The Eastern Catholic Churches ordain married men to the priesthood and the Latin Catholic Church ordains married converts who were ministers in their old church.

 

[Brendan]

Hey Everyone,

I’ve been travelling for the past couple of weeks and it has been made very plain to me that the Church in Ireland is dying. All the priests are old enough to be retired but there is no one to replace them so they continue working and then they don’t have enough energy to run programs for the youth and the result is empty churches with the few parishioners being elderly. It seems that in 10 years or so there will be almost no Catholic Church at all…

Adrianna,

The problem is not celibacy. The problem is materialism.

As was correctly pointed out by 1ke earlier, even Churches and demoninations that allow for married clergy are suffering from a vocations crisis.

The problem is that no one is really teaching the value of self sacrifice, of delayed gratification. Ours is a culture that lives for the ‘now’ and for our personal edification. That is precisely the opposite of what is required from our clergy. A priest edifies Christ and His Body the Church, and the gradification is spiritual, not temporal.

In many ways Ireland is the vicitim of it’s own sucess. For years it was the ‘Celtic Tiger’ with a booming economy. Young men were not raised in the same climate of temporal poverty and spiritual richness that produced so many vocations in centuries past. Many no longer looked to God for support, but to Master Card and Visa.

So no, the solution is not to allow married men into the priesthood, that is a short term fix, if a fix at all. No, what we need to do is to raise our sons with Rosaries in their hands, not Wiimotes.

 

[1ke]

what we need to do is to raise our sons with Rosaries in their hands, not Wiimotes.

AMEN

 

[stringbeanduck]

I am sorry but I keep hearing this from the laity, I have yet to hear it from a priest.

The Catholic Church has married priests. The Eastern Catholic Churches ordain married men to the priesthood and the Latin Catholic Church ordains married converts who were ministers in their old church.

Well of course I know that, but I’m not going to put that disclaimer on every post I make on a “married priests” thread. The issue we’re are talking about would be whether or not to allow priests to marry or married men to become priests in Latin rite. This being seperate from those who convert.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well of course I know that, but I’m not going to put that disclaimer on every post I make on a “married priests” thread. The issue we’re are talking about would be whether or not to allow priests to marry or married men to become priests in Latin rite. This being seperate from those who convert.

It still totally deflates the “priests are married to the Church” idea that the laity puts forward. That is not part of the theology of the priesthood.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Adrianna,

The problem is not celibacy. The problem is materialism.

As was correctly pointed out by 1ke earlier, even Churches and demoninations that allow for married clergy are suffering from a vocations crisis.

The problem is that no one is really teaching the value of self sacrifice, of delayed gratification. Ours is a culture that lives for the ‘now’ and for our personal edification. That is precisely the opposite of what is required from our clergy. A priest edifies Christ and His Body the Church, and the gradification is spiritual, not temporal.

In many ways Ireland is the vicitim of it’s own sucess. For years it was the ‘Celtic Tiger’ with a booming economy. Young men were not raised in the same climate of temporal poverty and spiritual richness that produced so many vocations in centuries past. Many no longer looked to God for support, but to Master Card and Visa.

So no, the solution is not to allow married men into the priesthood, that is a short term fix, if a fix at all. No, what we need to do is to raise our sons with Rosaries in their hands, not Wiimotes.

As one who is surrounded by this culture, I can agree. This society offers too many distractions from religious vocations. The do what feels right at the moment motto of today leads to many problems and confusion. Those who are considered religious are also considered boring and out of touch with today’s society by many. People, especially the young feel, the church should change with the times. Those morals vary upon the ethics of today. This is the reason we find things like LifeTeen Masses, because the Mass the Christ gave, isn’t fun enough and out of touch with my generation. I think if the young can learn that the church, faith, and moral are constant and should be constant they can take the faith more seriously.

 

[John_Monaco]

First of all, as a 17 (in a couple months) year old, planning on entering the priesthood, I suggest anyone who hasn’t already, watch this

youtube.com/watch?v=qqtOvt7d490

Second of all, allowing priests to marry won’t end the vocation shortage. Just because they will have kids, doesn’t mean their children wants to become a priest. You become a priest because God wants you to; it doesn’t matter if you want your child to or not. Also, it’s not like there are thousands of potential priests who want to become a priest, but is turned off by the celibacy. They just aren’t called to live the life.

As a celibate priest, you’re free to love everyone. You’re not going to be conflicted with family stuff, the Church and society is your family. You serve God, and His people. It is indeed a shame that the number of priests is declining, however I can say that in my archdiocese, I feel comfortable saying that they simply NOT DO ENOUGH. We need, at least in our archdiocese, to start recruiting. SHOW children that the life of materialism and wealth won’t satisfy their thirst for Christ. HAVE priests go out, hold picnics, different events. The diocesan priests where I reside can pray all they want, but they aren’t going to help the shortage by just staying inactive. Perhaps if they just realized that they are “fishers of men”, and not hermits, then much would be solved.

Since Pope Benedict XVI dedicated this year for priests, I think this is the year where some of the old, aging, priests should try to reel in new ones. I cannot see marriage helping this mater. In my school, I’m known as “the kid who’s gonna be a priest.” I have a high standard of moral living, and everyone knows that. I have gotten some people back into prayer just by stating my beliefs. I AM the counter-culture, as with all of those who desire to live a religious life, whether it be priest, brother, sister, layman, or anything else. True priests will make the sacrifice of celibacy. It’s better if we have 200 deeply, devout, celibate priests, than 500 ones who have intercourse extremely often and have a family.

Pax,

John Monaco

 

[TeresaAnn]

God Bless our Priests and those entering the priesthood. We love you dearly.

Teresa Ann

 

[kevrx3]

Priests have made a commitment through their ordination that they a “married” in a sense to the church. They give up their lives to God and church to serve Him and others as well.

Allowing priests to marry won’t fix the shortage either. Priesthood is not a light decision, or something anyone can do, it is a distinct call made to those with that vocation.

Even though children of a priest may grow up in a holy Catholic lifestyle, it’s no guarantee that they have that call to the religious life. I think a way to fix the shortage of priests is not to have priests marry, but to have more people consider their vocation more seriously, especially considering the vocation to religious life. A lot of young people don’t have that entered into their mind, and don’t really think about their vocation created by God.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Priests have made a commitment through their ordination that they a “married” in a sense to the church. They give up their lives to God and church to serve Him and others as well.

This is just not true. The “married” thing that is.

While priests do, in a sense, enter into the service of the Church, it is more correct to say that it is a religious who gives up their life, by taking the vows that are the Evangelical Counsels, to serve the Church.

Many of the laity seem to confuse priesthood and religious life. The diocesen priest is called a secular priest because they are not a religious. They take no vows but make the promises of chastity and obedience. When a single man does this (which is the current norm in the Latin Catholic Church as stated in the Code of Canon Law) he remains celibate.

Allowing priests to marry won’t fix the shortage either. Priesthood is not a light decision, or something anyone can do, it is a distinct call made to those with that vocation.

Priests can never marry, they never have. What is being discussed when one speaks of married priests is married men being ordained to the priesthood.

 

[LilFranciscan25]

Hey Everyone,

I’ve been travelling for the past couple of weeks and it has been made very plain to me that the Church in Ireland is dying. All the priests are old enough to be retired but there is no one to replace them so they continue working and then they don’t have enough energy to run programs for the youth and the result is empty churches with the few parishioners being elderly. It seems that in 10 years or so there will be almost no Catholic Church at all…

Then I started wondering about why we have no new priests. And it hit me that more men would become priests if they could still get married and have children. With the church’s authority to bind and loose couldn’t they change it back to the way it was centuries ago that priests could marry? Priests can marry in rites other than the Latin Rite so why don’t we change that? Change is needed or else we’re going to die out!

Surely the drawbacks of having married priests are not worth the slippery slope the Church finds itself in now.

I seriously doubt that allowing married priests would help with the shortage. The Church in Ireland is struggling because it’s become a very secularized country. Instead of allowing the priests to get married, the Church should be praying for people to return to the faith and to follow God-given vocations. Many people are ignoring the call because they are not active in the faith.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

First of all, as a 17 (in a couple months) year old, planning on entering the priesthood, I suggest anyone who hasn’t already, watch this

youtube.com/watch?v=qqtOvt7d490

Second of all, allowing priests to marry won’t end the vocation shortage. Just because they will have kids, doesn’t mean their children wants to become a priest. You become a priest because God wants you to; it doesn’t matter if you want your child to or not. Also, it’s not like there are thousands of potential priests who want to become a priest, but is turned off by the celibacy. They just aren’t called to live the life.

As a celibate priest, you’re free to love everyone. You’re not going to be conflicted with family stuff, the Church and society is your family. You serve God, and His people. It is indeed a shame that the number of priests is declining, however I can say that in my archdiocese, I feel comfortable saying that they simply NOT DO ENOUGH. We need, at least in our archdiocese, to start recruiting. SHOW children that the life of materialism and wealth won’t satisfy their thirst for Christ. HAVE priests go out, hold picnics, different events. The diocesan priests where I reside can pray all they want, but they aren’t going to help the shortage by just staying inactive. Perhaps if they just realized that they are “fishers of men”, and not hermits, then much would be solved.

Since Pope Benedict XVI dedicated this year for priests, I think this is the year where some of the old, aging, priests should try to reel in new ones. I cannot see marriage helping this mater. In my school, I’m known as “the kid who’s gonna be a priest.” I have a high standard of moral living, and everyone knows that. I have gotten some people back into prayer just by stating my beliefs. I AM the counter-culture, as with all of those who desire to live a religious life, whether it be priest, brother, sister, layman, or anything else. True priests will make the sacrifice of celibacy. It’s better if we have 200 deeply, devout, celibate priests, than 500 ones who have intercourse extremely often and have a family.

Pax,

John Monaco

First off I want to say that “Fishers of Men” is the most inspiring video ever. Secondly I agree on everything that you have wrote. Thirdly I also was known “as the kid who’s gonna be a priest”.

God Bless

 

[Rose71]

I remember an Anglican vicar telling me once that one reason the Anglican Church is constantly short of funds is that they are obliged to support the ex-wives and children of many vicars, because so many wives have sadly found sharing their husband with the whole community too much of a burden.

A friend of mine married a vicar, but she had to be engaged a very long time and received special instruction and support, because being married to a clergyman can be such an emotionally and spiritually demanding role (it has been said many times that saints can be difficult people to live with!)

Having read through the posts, can someone shed some light on this? I read a book in a series called the Sister Fidelma Mysteries a while ago about a religious sister in Ireland in the Middle Ages. According to the author (whose name I can’t remember) Celtic Christianity used to allow religious brothers and sisters to co-habit and it was the Roman church that arrived via the Saxons that put a stop to this practice. I’d never heard anything like that before. Could it be true? I am asking purely out of curiosity!

I can see both sides to the ‘married clergy’ debate - but it should perhaps also be stressed here that being called to married life and being a good Catholic role model for one’s children is a noble calling too - without which there would be even fewer priests.

 

[JReducation]

This is just not true. The “married” thing that is.

While priests do, in a sense, enter into the service of the Church, it is more correct to say that it is a religious who gives up their life, by taking the vows that are the Evangelical Counsels, to serve the Church.

Many of the laity seem to confuse priesthood and religious life. The diocesen priest is called a secular priest because they are not a religious. They take no vows but make the promises of chastity and obedience. When a single man does this (which is the current norm in the Latin Catholic Church as stated in the Code of Canon Law) he remains celibate.

Priests can never marry, they never have. What is being discussed when one speaks of married priests is married men being ordained to the priesthood.

Brother David is correct. The priesthood and religious life are two very different realities. They do not overlap, they do not include or exclude each other. A man can be a priest and remain a secular. Such is the case with Diocesan priests and priests of certain societies. Another man can be a religious and never become a priest. These are members of orders and congregations

Who came up with this zany idea that priests are married to the Church? The Church does not believe this nor does she teach this in her theology of the priesthood. If this were true, it would not be sacramentally possible for a man to be married and be a deacon or a priest. Because you can’t be married to two different spouses. We do have married deacons and we have married priests.

It is religious men and religious women who are married to the Mystical Body. Therefore, a married man cannot be a religious. Because the vow of chastity includes a physical communion with the Mystical Body through the religious community. His brothers in community are his family.

Secular priests do not have such a family, because they do not make a vow of chastity. They make a promise of celibacy. That is a promise not to marry, but it does not imply that they take on another spouse or another family. It means that they remain single in the service of the Church. That’s it.

Moving along to the other part of this thread. Celibacy is not the reason for a decline in the number of vocations to the priesthood. Let’s look at several other realities. Let’s look at the decline in the number of married couples. Marriage too is a vocation. How many people stay married until death? How many couples get married at all? It seems to me that in many metropolitan areas, where the larger concentration of people live, there are many transitional couples.

If people were that committed to marriage and the exclusion of marriage were the only reason for the decline in priestly vocations, we would not be seeing a decline in marital vocations. The fact is that there are more couples together who are not married or who are on their second or third marriages than ever before.

I doubt that men are not choosing to be priests because they want to be married. If that were the case, they would be married and stay married.

The instability of marriages is a bigger crisis than the shortage of priests. Almost every priest I know comes from a family. I don’t’ think that I’ve ever met one who was poofed into existence.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ababbidg]

I have to kindly disagree. I am considering the priesthood and celibacy is actually one of the things that attracts me to the priesthood. I find that type of sacrifice noble and the gospel of Matthew talks about those that can accept celibacy should accept celibacy to give glory to God. If I became a priest I would want to be free to be a great priest that is always available to help others and not have to worry about taking care of your family. I find giving absolutely everything to God very appealing. Don’t get me wrong, having a family and a wife would be nice too. But being a good husband and father involves giving so much to your family. This time could instead be given to the Church and the parishoners and leading people to God. Just talking about it gets me excited. I really hope God is calling me to be a priest, but only time will tell.

I think the priest shortage is happening for many reasons, but the biggest of which is that most people today are afraid of sacrifice or anything that makes us uncomfortable. Ask most people if they would be a priest and most of the time you will hear “No way, I want to have sex.” or 'I want to have a family" or something along those lines. To which I reply, well I would too, but the priesthood is a higher calling. It will require sacrifices and will be hard at times. However, I have never met an unhappy priest. Ever. They did have to go through suffering at times, but trust me, God gives so much more back to them.