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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Salt and beads were both used as money because of their intrinsic value, have you bought anything with them lately? Try to buy your next car using salt.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
This reminds me of the tulip craze in Holland a few hundred years back. People were willing to pay huge prices for tuilp bulbs – and then it all went bust.
A thing is worth what a willing buyer will offer and a willing seller will accept. That’s as true of gold as it is of anything else. Gold has no more “intrinsic value” than lead or horse manure.
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drafdog
Guest
Excuse me for asking, but exactly what is dishonest about the dollar? It, like any other form of exchange currency, has a value which is agreed upon by the parties to value exchange. Each individual transaction adjusts the value of the currency, including the purchase of a 75 cent candy bar. The honesty of currency of any sort relies upon the honesty of the parties to transactions using that currency.
Maybe what you really need is a better understanding of basic economics.
If you are interested in a non-inflationary economic system, I suggest that you investigate the ecomomy of salvation. Its currency is Love. The curious thing about the currency is that the more you spend, the more you have. It amounts to a “deflationary” economy. Remember that this is the only currency that you can take to the throne of God as evidence of your stewardship. I thought that this was what life was all about anyway. What’s this about dollars???
Matthew
Maybe what you really need is a better understanding of basic economics.
If you are interested in a non-inflationary economic system, I suggest that you investigate the ecomomy of salvation. Its currency is Love. The curious thing about the currency is that the more you spend, the more you have. It amounts to a “deflationary” economy. Remember that this is the only currency that you can take to the throne of God as evidence of your stewardship. I thought that this was what life was all about anyway. What’s this about dollars???
Matthew
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abu_kamoon
Guest
An understanding of economics has nothing to do with my opinions. Sadly, what passes for economics today is a lot of jibberish. Ten economists in a room, like ten psychiatrists all have different opions. The only valid economics is Classical Economics. I don’t have any trouble in saying this.
Classical economics were around long before I walked this Earth. Classical econcomics has been replaced today with an assortment of economic theories. It always comes down to the fact that people do what they perceive to be in their own economic self interest. The black market is really the free market. You can’t repeal the law of supply and demand, and Gresham’s Law: Bad money drives out good (how many silver coins do you see circulating along with the John Slugs that we got in 1965?).
ابو كمون
Classical economics were around long before I walked this Earth. Classical econcomics has been replaced today with an assortment of economic theories. It always comes down to the fact that people do what they perceive to be in their own economic self interest. The black market is really the free market. You can’t repeal the law of supply and demand, and Gresham’s Law: Bad money drives out good (how many silver coins do you see circulating along with the John Slugs that we got in 1965?).
ابو كمون
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vern_humphrey
Guest
You can do your bit to improve the situation by not contributing to the gibberish.
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abu_kamoon
Guest
Sorry. I tried to make it as simple as I could.
ابو كمون
ابو كمون
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I belive “simplistic” is the word you’re looking for.Sorry. I tried to make it as simple as I could.
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abu_kamoon
Guest
If you disagree with that I am saying, does that imply that you have no problem that today’s dollar is worth less than 4 cents of the 1913 dollar? Do you think that the fact that you have been, and are continuing to be robbed is ok?
If you do, there isn’t any more that I can say to you.
If your don’t, then what is your solution? I am relying on over 5000 years of human experience, which you seem to reject in favor of the various “economic” theories that have been propagated by the criminals who are fleecing us. I’m not giving you MY version of conomics. I am trying to bring to your attention something that people have always known - until now. Technology aside, this is the dumbest generation in history. Most people know very little today, other than pop culture. It’s sad. They don’t know that they don’t know - and a lot of them don’t care.
Most people are sheep. Sad but true.
ابو كمون
If you do, there isn’t any more that I can say to you.
If your don’t, then what is your solution? I am relying on over 5000 years of human experience, which you seem to reject in favor of the various “economic” theories that have been propagated by the criminals who are fleecing us. I’m not giving you MY version of conomics. I am trying to bring to your attention something that people have always known - until now. Technology aside, this is the dumbest generation in history. Most people know very little today, other than pop culture. It’s sad. They don’t know that they don’t know - and a lot of them don’t care.
Most people are sheep. Sad but true.
ابو كمون
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The 1913 Dollar? The United States went off the Gold Standard about a quarter of a century later!!
I’m being robbed by excess taxes and wasteful government spending, not by lack of the Gold Standard.
A Constitutional Amendment implementing the Line Item Veto, allowing Presidents to control excess spending – and allowing us to hold one man, the President, responsible if he doesn’t.
Funny, I wouldn’t think you were a day older than 1000 years.
You mean there’s somebody else who buys into this theory of yours?
And you can always find someone to take up the latest crackpot economic theory.
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quasimodo
Guest
First go do a lot more historical research. we did not get to where we are by accident. there were good economic reasons.
Second, gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper. All three are worth only what the person who wants them thinks they are worth. Its all in the mind of the buyer.
Second, gold and silver have no more intrinsic value than paper. All three are worth only what the person who wants them thinks they are worth. Its all in the mind of the buyer.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Absolutely.
Gold and silver have no more “intrinsic worth” than any other commodity. If we have to “base” the dollar on something, Corn or lumber would serve as well as gold.
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geezerbob
Guest
Check your history. If I’m not mistaken, the US government refused to redeem war bonds issued during WWI and the holders of those bonds lost their money.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Do you have a cite for this?
The only default on US obligations that I know of was Revolutionary War bonds and debts, and even that was eventually paid, thanks to Alexander Hamilton.
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abu_kamoon
Guest
Do you have a Silver Certificate in your posession? I am looking at one series 1923 (one of the large bills). Under the portrait of Washington is says:
Now I am looking at a $10 Federal Reserve note series 1928 A. Under the portrait of Hamilton it says:
Above the Federal Reserve Bank of New York it says:
REDEEMABLE IN GOLD ON DEMAND AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY, OR IN GOLD OR LAWFUL MONEY AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
I am now looking at a $10 Federal Reserve Note series 1950 C. Under the portrait of Hamilton it says:
Above the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston seal is written:
THIS NOTE IS LEGAL FOR ALL DEBT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE AND IS REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY OR AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
And finally, I have a $1 Federal Reserve note series 2003 A. Under the portrait it says:
And above the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston it says:
THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
My observation is that as the publics knowledge of economics has declined, so has the need for maintianing the image of real money. Most people today have no concept of what money really is. They confuse money with currency. They think that legal tender laws somehow magically bestow value to something that can be arbitrarily produced by politicians.
If these are not defaults of obligation, I don’t know what is.
ابو كمون
Code:
ONE SILVER DOLLAR
PAYABLE TO THE BEARER ON DEMAND
Code:
WILL PAY TO THE BEARER ON DEMAND
TEN DOLLARSREDEEMABLE IN GOLD ON DEMAND AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY, OR IN GOLD OR LAWFUL MONEY AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
I am now looking at a $10 Federal Reserve Note series 1950 C. Under the portrait of Hamilton it says:
Code:
WILL PAY TO THE BEARON ON DEMAND
TEN DOLLARSTHIS NOTE IS LEGAL FOR ALL DEBT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE AND IS REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY OR AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
And finally, I have a $1 Federal Reserve note series 2003 A. Under the portrait it says:
Code:
ONE DOLLARTHIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
My observation is that as the publics knowledge of economics has declined, so has the need for maintianing the image of real money. Most people today have no concept of what money really is. They confuse money with currency. They think that legal tender laws somehow magically bestow value to something that can be arbitrarily produced by politicians.
If these are not defaults of obligation, I don’t know what is.
ابو كمون
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The owners of those notes at the time could have redeemed them. They chose not to, and kept the bills as collectors items or souvenirs.
By the way, what’s your take on the theory of the Second Gunman at the Kennedy Assassination?
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abu_kamoon
Guest
There is no expiration date on the promises to redeem.
ابو كمون
ابو كمون
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Angainor
Guest
This is absurd. With sound money, gold would not have a “price”. That is like saying “how much does that dollar cost?” The price of one ounce of gold is one ounce of gold. The reason for stamping a lump of gold into a coin, is so that everyone can be reasonably certain how much gold is in the coin.
This is a problem. It is the reason US quarters have a jagged edge. It makes them more tamper-evident. Of course, the jagged edge on the current US quarter is an artifact of when quarters actually contained silver. Today nobody cares how much metal is in a quarter because it is a base metal token. The metal content is far less than its face value.
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Angainor
Guest
Yes.
The price of a fine suit of men’s clothes can be used to
show anyone who is not familiar with the price history of gold
just how very cheap gold is today. With an ounce of gold, a
man could buy a fine suit of clothes in the time of
Shakespeare, in that of Beethoven and Jefferson, and in the
Depression of the 1930’s. In fact, this statement was still true
in the 1980’s, but not in the late 1990’s. The suit standard
now implies a gold price of perhaps $1,000 per troy ounce.
Today, a really good man’s suit can easily cost 4 ounces of
gold, and that is without a vest, which once was standard
(Forbes, 1998).
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Angainor
Guest
Corn or lumber could work perfectly well as money. “I’ll give you 20 bushels of corn for your 2 sheep.” That is, of course, that it is hard to carry around 20 bushels of corn.
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Angainor
Guest
Two parties don’t agree on the value of an exchange randomly. They base their decision on how easy it is to obtain a unit of currency. The amount of paper currency in an economy is controlled by a handful of people. The people are at the mercy of how much currency that handful of people choose to put into the system.
There is only so much gold in the world. It cannot be made easier to obtain.
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