Returning catholic leading to failing marriage

[Mamanurse]

To give a little back story- I was raised catholic, I left the church at 22, got married to a man outside of the church, he is not catholic. We have one child together and have been together now for 5 yrs. I have since returned to the church with his blessing. However he didn’t realize that his blessing for me to attend mass would have any affect on the outcome of our relationship.- I have posted a few times now, mostly about moral questions such as oral sex, porn, masturbation. Since reading and researching and learning that oral sex with no procreative outcome is a sin, I have spoken to my husband about this. We took some time apart for 5 days to think about this issue…well he needed time to think I guess. One of our problems that we have dealt with is the fact that within the past 2 wks, during therapy he let me know that his outcome with oral sex is a 10, masturbation a 7 and sex with me a 5. Yes, my husband has rated the quality of his orgasms, believe me I was disgusted. I got back home today and he said that he cannot give up his oral sex without understanding and being able to believe it. I have explained, found articles to explain what the church teaches on this matter and he simply points out that this is why he hates churches, not just the catholic, but any church. He hates that a church has the ability to form my opinions the way it does and it bothers him that God, as the catholic church teaches, thinks that having oral sex is wrong. He can’t grasp the fact that its not procreative and it is completely selfish, not to mention the fact that every time I do it, it makes me feel lonely and wonder what he is picturing in his mind. So basically we have come to the fact that maybe we should divorce. Since a blessed marriage is something I seek, I have been advised by my priest that with the opinions my husband has about sex there is no way a blessing can occur. — Just so you don’t go thinking that up till this point our marriage has been hunky dory, we have been in counseling for the past 3 mths, not to mention the 4 months of counseling we did after the birth of our son— does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on this issue??? I will be speaking with my priest again tomorrow to seek guidance…I guess most of all I am seeking prayers during this time. I am scared as to what will happen if we do proceed with a divorce. He and I have agreed that joint custody will be best as our son has Down syndrome, we want to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible. ----- How can I find myself returning to Christ in the church only to find that my spouse thinks so little of me? Am I failing Christ by not giving into my husband sexual desires? Am I being a selfish wife for wanting to follow the churches teachings to the T? My heart is aching…my marriage is failing…yet thankfully my child is a complete and utter Gift from God.

 

[lovemyboys]

You’re right to get advice from a priest. This is such a tough situation. I have no good general advice here. However, I wonder if you realize that oral sex is allowed as long as it’s foreplay. Then it can still be procreative, if you get my drift. Book rec: Holy Sex by Gregory Popcak

 

[Mamanurse]

You’re right to get advice from a priest. This is such a tough situation. I have no good general advice here. However, I wonder if you realize that oral sex is allowed as long as it’s foreplay. Then it can still be procreative, if you get my drift. Book rec: Holy Sex by Gregory Popcak

Yes, I understand that we can still use this as foreplay, but for my husband its all or nothing and its the “outcome” portion that matters to him, not the intimacy nor the procreation. Thanks though.

 

[lovemyboys]

Do you think he might read a book like the one I mentioned?

 

[lovemyboys]

I’ll be praying that he will convert. If he could convert, all your problems would be solved. The only advice I can think of is to get a bunch of great Catholic books (surely he’d read the ones with Sex in the title-- who isn’t interested in that (lol)).

I accepted the Church’s teachings on sexuality by being exposed to them on Catholic radio (particularly Dr. Popcak’s program, Heart, Mind, and Strength). Maybe he just needs more exposure.

 

[kage_ar]

God never leads us into sin. Perhaps God is leading you out of sin and into his glorious light!

 

[Mamanurse]

Do you think he might read a book like the one I mentioned?

I don’t know. I have Theology of the Body, Every Mans Battle, and a bunch of other Catholic literature laying around. I think he is too busy with school and work to want to learn anything about the church. Not to mention he doesn’t want to have anything to do with the catholic church.

 

[Julian0404]

Ted Turner divorced Jane Fonda as soon as she became a born again evangelical. What you are experiencing is not new, it is the price of courage in refusing to ignore the truth. And at the moment, your cross to bear and to offer the suffering it brings to Jesus throuh Mary. Go to www.queenship.org and purchase the small book, IN THE END MY IMMACULATE HEART WILL TRIUMPH, and give your heart to Jesus through Mary.

My only advice, and I am sure you are already ahead of me, when talking to the priest, since you were never married in the church, discuss if you can remarry. What would be the Churches position in your situation.

 

[KBernadette]

“How can I find myself returning to Christ in the church only to find that my spouse thinks so little of me?”

So sad, yet so true. If desire for oral sex to completion is a major factor for your husband in the outcome of your marriage that says some very sad things about how he views you as a person. I am kind of in the same situation in regards to birth control with My husband. I don’t understand why people put orgasms before God and their spouse’s dignity. It takes a firm belief in Christ and the teachings of the Church to see how wrong it is. I will pray for you.

 

[Darnrarejob]

I’m absolutely dumb founded that he would consider masturbation (in other words, having sex with himself) more pleasing than having sex with another person. Clearly he loves the orgasm more than he loves you.

 

[momor]

I am sorry. This has got to be very difficult and you have every right to feel the way you do.

Is it possible for you to simply refuse to perform any sexual acts that you disagree with and then wait on the Lord? What I mean is insist on only doing what you feel is right and then leaving the outcome entirely in God’s hands while you just focus on the other aspects of your marriage and motherhood. Your husband might proceed to divorce you but then again he might not? Could your refusal to violate your morals perhaps cause him to take notice and rethink his position? I admit I have not read your other posts, and perhaps you said so there, but has your husband actually said he would divorce you if he couldn’t have his oral sex his way?

Is it possible that you just want out of this marriage because you don’t think it will ever be what the Church envisions marriage should be and this gives you something concrete to use as a reason?

 

[Rence]

I am so very sorry that you are going through this. Yes, when a spouse is married to a Catholic, he or she has to conform to rules of the Catholic Church and not many non-Catholics realize that. When a Catholic can’t fulfill needs of a spouse because it’s a Catholic teaching that can cause some major conflicts in a relationship. It’s hard enough to understand (and accept) the rules for Catholics, let alone non-catholics. I think this is a big factor that makes the Church frown on Catholics who marry non-Catholics. Sex in the Catholic Church really is a teaching that takes time and understanding and commitment. And let’s face it, many don’t follow it. If you were having trouble with your marriage before your return to the Church, I can see why he’s having difficulty with it. These are issues one should talk about BEFORE one gets married, not surprised on a spouse after vows have been made. I don’t think it’s fair to spring this on someone after you’ve been married. In fact, I think it’s selfish. But you saying that you feel lonely and wonder what he’s thinking after oral sex is a BIG red flag to me. There’s obviously breakdown going on that has nothing to do with your return to the Church.

Did you talk to your marriage counseler about his sex ratings? I know you said it came out in counseling, but you never said what the outcome was. And the way you feel when you have oral sex with him? I think it would be important to get to the bottom of that. And I also wonder if he rated oral sex so high and sex only with you so low to discourage you from following the teaching. In addition, it kind of says more about him than you when he rates sex with himself higher than sex with you But then you have issues with sex with him as well. So there’s a LOT going on with you two.

Marriage is very serious to Catholics. It’s a Sacrament and unlike non-practicing catholics, when a practicing catholic divorces they can’t just go about their lives business-as-usual and start dating as if single again. So since you’re already thinking divorce, I’d think very hard about pursuing a relationship with this man within the Church. It’s a one-time thing.

I’m sorry that you think returning to the Church is making things worse, but I think it was bad before. Returning to the Church is a choice YOU need to make and know that he might not accept it. I’ll pray for you both.

 

[Dorothy]

To give a little back story- I was raised catholic, I left the church at 22, got married to a man outside of the church, he is not catholic. We have one child together and have been together now for 5 yrs. I have since returned to the church with his blessing. However he didn’t realize that his blessing for me to attend mass would have any affect on the outcome of our relationship.- I have posted a few times now, mostly about moral questions such as oral sex, porn, masturbation. Since reading and researching and learning that oral sex with no procreative outcome is a sin, I have spoken to my husband about this. We took some time apart for 5 days to think about this issue…well he needed time to think I guess. One of our problems that we have dealt with is the fact that within the past 2 wks, during therapy he let me know that his outcome with oral sex is a 10, masturbation a 7 and sex with me a 5. Yes, my husband has rated the quality of his orgasms, believe me I was disgusted. I got back home today and he said that he cannot give up his oral sex without understanding and being able to believe it. I have explained, found articles to explain what the church teaches on this matter and he simply points out that this is why he hates churches, not just the catholic, but any church. He hates that a church has the ability to form my opinions the way it does and it bothers him that God, as the catholic church teaches, thinks that having oral sex is wrong. He can’t grasp the fact that its not procreative and it is completely selfish, not to mention the fact that every time I do it, it makes me feel lonely and wonder what he is picturing in his mind. So basically we have come to the fact that maybe we should divorce. Since a blessed marriage is something I seek, I have been advised by my priest that with the opinions my husband has about sex there is no way a blessing can occur. — Just so you don’t go thinking that up till this point our marriage has been hunky dory, we have been in counseling for the past 3 mths, not to mention the 4 months of counseling we did after the birth of our son— does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on this issue??? I will be speaking with my priest again tomorrow to seek guidance…I guess most of all I am seeking prayers during this time. I am scared as to what will happen if we do proceed with a divorce. He and I have agreed that joint custody will be best as our son has Down syndrome, we want to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible. ----- How can I find myself returning to Christ in the church only to find that my spouse thinks so little of me? Am I failing Christ by not giving into my husband sexual desires? Am I being a selfish wife for wanting to follow the churches teachings to the T? My heart is aching…my marriage is failing…yet thankfully my child is a complete and utter Gift from God.

It was a great blessing to you that you answered God’s call and returned to the Church. You are definitely NOT failing Christ by not giving into your husband’s sexual desires. They would drag you down with him. You are responding correctly for wanting to follow the Church’s teachings, which are according to the voice of Christ.

Trust the Lord, He is with you through this.

 

[kage_ar]

Is it possible for you to simply refuse to perform any sexual acts that you disagree with and then wait on the Lord?

She is not to be having sex at all, she is not validly married to this man. ANY sexual activity with him is a grave sin.

 

[Mamanurse]

I am so very sorry that you are going through this. Yes, when a spouse is married to a Catholic, he or she has to conform to rules of the Catholic Church and not many non-Catholics realize that. When a Catholic can’t fulfill needs of a spouse because it’s a Catholic teaching that can cause some major conflicts in a relationship. It’s hard enough to understand (and accept) the rules for Catholics, let alone non-catholics. I think this is a big factor that makes the Church frown on Catholics who marry non-Catholics. Sex in the Catholic Church really is a teaching that takes time and understanding and commitment. And let’s face it, many don’t follow it. If you were having trouble with your marriage before your return to the Church, I can see why he’s having difficulty with it. These are issues one should talk about BEFORE one gets married, not surprised on a spouse after vows have been made. I don’t think it’s fair to spring this on someone after you’ve been married. In fact, I think it’s selfish. But you saying that you feel lonely and wonder what he’s thinking after oral sex is a BIG red flag to me. There’s obviously breakdown going on that has nothing to do with your return to the Church.

Did you talk to your marriage counseler about his sex ratings? I know you said it came out in counseling, but you never said what the outcome was. And the way you feel when you have oral sex with him? I think it would be important to get to the bottom of that. And I also wonder if he rated oral sex so high and sex only with you so low to discourage you from following the teaching. In addition, it kind of says more about him than you when he rates sex with himself higher than sex with you But then you have issues with sex with him as well. So there’s a LOT going on with you two.

Marriage is very serious to Catholics. It’s a Sacrament and unlike non-practicing catholics, when a practicing catholic divorces they can’t just go about their lives business-as-usual and start dating as if single again. So since you’re already thinking divorce, I’d think very hard about pursuing a relationship with this man within the Church. It’s a one-time thing.

Well, to the first point, I fell away from the church prior to meeting my spouse, we then got married by a JOP. I was not living a catholic lifestyle and had no problem with oral sex. Now that I am back to the church I have re-learned my faith and have realized that it is a sin and no longer want to offend God.
To the second point, My marriage is invalid in the churches eyes. It was not sacramental, so if I did pursue a divorce I would most likely be able to get an anullment, not that getting remarried is anything I am looking at.
My husband and I have done a lot of talking and have to decided to agree to disagree at the moment. He has said that he will respect my decision not to have oral sex…we will continue to go to therapy and seek counsel for our issues.

 

[Dorothy]

<<Well, to the first point, I fell away from the church prior to meeting my spouse, we then got married by a JOP. I was not living a catholic lifestyle and had no problem with oral sex. Now that I am back to the church I have re-learned my faith and have realized that it is a sin and no longer want to offend God.
To the second point, My marriage is invalid in the churches eyes. It was not sacramental, so if I did pursue a divorce I would most likely be able to get an anullment, not that getting remarried is anything I am looking at.
My husband and I have done a lot of talking and have to decided to agree to disagree at the moment. He has said that he will respect my decision not to have oral sex…we will continue to go to therapy and seek counsel for our issues. >>

kage-ar is right. Because you are not validly married to this man every time you have relations with him it is a serious sin. That wasn’t clear to me in the first post. (I thought you had convalidated the marriage since you said you returned to the Church.)

That needs to be taken care of if you want to receive the Sacraments and put Christ first. From what you say about the way he regards you, you have good reason to divorce him, unless a miracle of grace occurs.

You have some serious decisions to make - who will you put first?

May the Lord lead and guide you!

 

[kage_ar]

Will he stay when you tell him that you can never have relations of any kind again until you are validly married (something he should have heard already)?

Please, make sure you go to a Catholic counselor who understands the Catholic laws on marriage.

 

[Seatuck]

Rence;6483180:

I am so very sorry that you are going through this. Yes, when a spouse is married to a Catholic, he or she has to conform to rules of the Catholic Church and not many non-Catholics realize that. When a Catholic can’t fulfill needs of a spouse because it’s a Catholic teaching that can cause some major conflicts in a relationship. It’s hard enough to understand (and accept) the rules for Catholics, let alone non-catholics. I think this is a big factor that makes the Church frown on Catholics who marry non-Catholics. Sex in the Catholic Church really is a teaching that takes time and understanding and commitment. And let’s face it, many don’t follow it. If you were having trouble with your marriage before your return to the Church, I can see why he’s having difficulty with it. These are issues one should talk about BEFORE one gets married, not surprised on a spouse after vows have been made. I don’t think it’s fair to spring this on someone after you’ve been married. In fact, I think it’s selfish.

But you saying that you feel lonely and wonder what he’s thinking after oral sex is a BIG red flag to me. There’s obviously breakdown going on that has nothing to do with your return to the Church.

Did you talk to your marriage counseler about his sex ratings? I know you said it came out in counseling, but you never said what the outcome was. And the way you feel when you have oral sex with him? I think it would be important to get to the bottom of that. And I also wonder if he rated oral sex so high and sex only with you so low to discourage you from following the teaching. In addition, it kind of says more about him than you when he rates sex with himself higher than sex with you But then you have issues with sex with him as well. So there’s a LOT going on with you two.

Marriage is very serious to Catholics. It’s a Sacrament and unlike non-practicing catholics, when a practicing catholic divorces they can’t just go about their lives business-as-usual and start dating as if single again. So since you’re already thinking divorce, I’d think very hard about pursuing a relationship with this man within the Church. It’s a one-time thing.

Well, to the first point, I fell away from the church prior to meeting my spouse, we then got married by a JOP. I was not living a catholic lifestyle and had no problem with oral sex. Now that I am back to the church I have re-learned my faith and have realized that it is a sin and no longer want to offend God.
To the second point, My marriage is invalid in the churches eyes. It was not sacramental, so if I did pursue a divorce I would most likely be able to get an anullment, not that getting remarried is anything I am looking at.
My husband and I have done a lot of talking and have to decided to agree to disagree at the moment. He has said that he will respect my decision not to have oral sex…we will continue to go to therapy and seek counsel for our issues.

Well , that is encouraging. It seems to me that this can be a good start for the two of you . You got off to a wrong start . Now you can establish some foundational tenets such as you are a woman with dignity who is to be treated as such.

 

[Rence]

Rence;6483180:

I am so very sorry that you are going through this. Yes, when a spouse is married to a Catholic, he or she has to conform to rules of the Catholic Church and not many non-Catholics realize that. When a Catholic can’t fulfill needs of a spouse because it’s a Catholic teaching that can cause some major conflicts in a relationship. It’s hard enough to understand (and accept) the rules for Catholics, let alone non-catholics. I think this is a big factor that makes the Church frown on Catholics who marry non-Catholics. Sex in the Catholic Church really is a teaching that takes time and understanding and commitment. And let’s face it, many don’t follow it. If you were having trouble with your marriage before your return to the Church, I can see why he’s having difficulty with it. These are issues one should talk about BEFORE one gets married, not surprised on a spouse after vows have been made. I don’t think it’s fair to spring this on someone after you’ve been married. In fact, I think it’s selfish.

But you saying that you feel lonely and wonder what he’s thinking after oral sex is a BIG red flag to me. There’s obviously breakdown going on that has nothing to do with your return to the Church.

Did you talk to your marriage counseler about his sex ratings? I know you said it came out in counseling, but you never said what the outcome was. And the way you feel when you have oral sex with him? I think it would be important to get to the bottom of that. And I also wonder if he rated oral sex so high and sex only with you so low to discourage you from following the teaching. In addition, it kind of says more about him than you when he rates sex with himself higher than sex with you But then you have issues with sex with him as well. So there’s a LOT going on with you two.

Marriage is very serious to Catholics. It’s a Sacrament and unlike non-practicing catholics, when a practicing catholic divorces they can’t just go about their lives business-as-usual and start dating as if single again. So since you’re already thinking divorce, I’d think very hard about pursuing a relationship with this man within the Church. It’s a one-time thing.

Well, to the first point, I fell away from the church prior to meeting my spouse, we then got married by a JOP. I was not living a catholic lifestyle and had no problem with oral sex. Now that I am back to the church I have re-learned my faith and have realized that it is a sin and no longer want to offend God.

I understand (I think). I was worried that he was making you feel “cheap”. But it seems like you are uncomfortable with it because you yourself view it differently than you once did. That’s different. I’m glad he’s not doing something to make you feel badly about whatever you do for him.

To the second point, My marriage is invalid in the churches eyes. It was not sacramental, so if I did pursue a divorce I would most likely be able to get an anullment, not that getting remarried is anything I am looking at.

Does he know that you feel that your marriage isn’t a marriage anymore as you once thought it was? I’m assuming you did through counseling. That’s wonderful that he’s sticking with it and working on it with you. He does indeed need time to think, since he’s not Catholic (or a practicing Catholic). This must be a load on him as well as on you.

My husband and I have done a lot of talking and have to decided to agree to disagree at the moment. He has said that he will respect my decision not to have oral sex…we will continue to go to therapy and seek counsel for our issues.

That’s great! That’s very encouraging. From what I gather (correct me if I’m wrong), though he’s having a hard time with your effort to return to the Church, he is making an effort to work it out with you. Good luck to you both!