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Mary1973
Guest
If a former choir member turned up one Sunday after an absence of several years and said they wanted to sing with the choir, how do you think this should be handled?
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Tonks40
Guest
I’d be happy, for one. We could always use more voices in a choir!
If the person is not familiar with some of the harmonies any longer, I’d invite him/her to come to the next practice. Ease that person back in slowly.
If the person is not familiar with some of the harmonies any longer, I’d invite him/her to come to the next practice. Ease that person back in slowly.
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Mary1973
Guest
I agree. I find that if a person just drops in, they are disruptive because they don’t know the hymns.
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pm1853
Guest
Likewise, I’d say join up and come to rehearsals. My only stipulation for being in the choir is that you can sing and you show up. If you’ve got those 2 things, I can work with it.
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VAC
Guest
My response would be the same to this person as to anyone who asks after mass about joining is: “We are having a practice right now, come join us” If they come, I then hand them a songsheet and ask for their E-mail address.
If I feel like a song is being ‘disrupted’ by those who don’t know it well… I demonstrate the correct way and we go over it again, and again if needed. If a song still doesn’t ‘work’ after repeated attempts to correct it, I quietly throw it out.
Our group also follows the ‘sing and show up’ requirement.
Unfortunately, I’ve been told by the director of ministries that I’m not allowed to demand attendance at practice of my group until we have a permanent building… she says that’s when people will have more respect for us
If I feel like a song is being ‘disrupted’ by those who don’t know it well… I demonstrate the correct way and we go over it again, and again if needed. If a song still doesn’t ‘work’ after repeated attempts to correct it, I quietly throw it out.
Our group also follows the ‘sing and show up’ requirement.
Unfortunately, I’ve been told by the director of ministries that I’m not allowed to demand attendance at practice of my group until we have a permanent building… she says that’s when people will have more respect for us
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bpbasilphx
Guest
<<Unfortunately, I’ve been told by the director of ministries that I’m not allowed to demand attendance at practice of my group until we have a permanent building… she says that’s when people will have more respect for us >>
Sounds like she doesn’t have any respect for you and YOUR ministry.
Sounds like she doesn’t have any respect for you and YOUR ministry.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
I would say let them join back in. Most church choirs are about the effort more than anything as you usually have a mix of strong and weak singers.
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Guitar
Guest
That director of ministries would be told by this music coordinator that attendance at practice is a musical matter that I will decide whether or not is essential. Evaluating whether people need to attend practice or not and setting a “work ethic” for the music group is your call, whether you work in a permanent building or a tent. You have my sympathy!Unfortunately, I’ve been told by the director of ministries that I’m not allowed to demand attendance at practice of my group until we have a permanent building… she says that’s when people will have more respect for us
Without knowing the individual and how dedicated/good they were, I’d say drop-ins without prior rehearsal shouldn’t be encouraged. Maybe this person is musically brilliant and they now live 600 miles away and are only here for one weekend and you won’t see them again for ten years … OK, fine … but in my experience unless you are insistent about rehearsal attendance you end up eventually with even your regulars regarding rehearsal as an optional extra. (And/or the regulars who have put themselves out to practice getting peeved with “blow-ins”.)
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VAC
Guest
You are 100% right. I’m a volunteer, not a music major; my music education consists only of private lessons. When I first started leading the music at mass 2 years ago, I did not have the guts or confidence to make a statement like yours, or risk being a soloist by insisting on attendance. With time and experience, that has changed.
On a couple recent occasions, in the face of ridiculous politics, I’ve told the leadership as politely as possible that if they do not give me what I need to lead the music at this mass, then I won’t be able to do it.
Most of my group is dedicated and comes to practice most of the time. I ask for about an hour, right after mass every week. There are about 3-4 adults with sporadic to no practice attendance, but they are loyal to showing up to sing at mass.
You’re right again, hindsight is 20/20, and experience is the best teacher. I don’t want guest stars; I want people committed to the choir!!
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Tonks40
Guest
I’m a member of a choir that sings in 4-part harmony. We also have an “open door” policy on membership, but I think that it’s important that the choir director know the abilities of his/her singers before allowing them to “show up on Sunday” only. I’m in this situation, and prior to my adopting this schedule (I’m unable to attend our Wednesday night practices due to school), my director made sure that I knew how to read the music, harmonize, and had the confidence that I would at least look over the music before I showed up for Mass (she sends out the music liturgy plan each week). She also tests each new member to see what vocal range would be suitable, and works with each section during practice, individually also if need be.
She hasn’t turned down any new members since taking over 3 years ago, and she hasn’t had any mass exoduses!
She hasn’t turned down any new members since taking over 3 years ago, and she hasn’t had any mass exoduses!
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VAC
Guest
At my previous church, the paid music director never held any practices unless there were new songs to learn (2-3 times a year.) He never gave anyone advance notice of the songs;He played and sang louder than anyone else. He’d start flipping through the hymnal 5 minutes before communion to choose the song. At prayer meetings he’d say he was waiting for the Holy Spirit to give him the songs. When I asked him to pray earlier in the week for the Spirit to give him the songs so he could share them with the group and we could all practice them… he got really mad at me.
I stuck with the group for other reasons and did my best; but one day he pointed at me and the bass player and told us we could only play, but not sing, as he was inviting new singers into the group… well I packed up my quitar and left for good…I had a problem with being told I wasn’t good enough without being given a chance…So, I’d say to try and be fair, give singers a chance, and appreciate everyone’s best effort even if it isn’t perfect
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CarrieH
Guest
I’d say that it depends upon what you are doing. Our Adult Choir does 4-part choral music for the 11:00 Mass, and they rehearse every Thursday night for two hours. The rule is that if a person doesn’t come to practice on Thursday, they don’t sing that Sunday unless previous arrangements have been made with the choir director. Exceptions can be made for certain circumstances, but if you want to be in that choir, you don’t just show up on Sunday morning and expect to sing. That’s not fair to the people who DO come to practice every week, and when we’re doing music which might be a bit more difficult, unprepared singers will drag the whole group down. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, after all.
OTOH, our Sunday evening Mass is “contemporary,” and that music group practices for an hour beforehand. Anyone who shows up at 6:00 to practice is welcome to sing at 7:00 for Mass. In a group such as that, I’d welcome the returning choir member and be glad to have their help if they are any good at all. Maybe your church has something similar, whether it’s the early Mass or later in the day?
So I guess I’d give them the choice: come to Thursday practice and sing on Sunday morning, or come to the other group if you aren’t willing or able to commit to being a “regular” choir member.
OTOH, our Sunday evening Mass is “contemporary,” and that music group practices for an hour beforehand. Anyone who shows up at 6:00 to practice is welcome to sing at 7:00 for Mass. In a group such as that, I’d welcome the returning choir member and be glad to have their help if they are any good at all. Maybe your church has something similar, whether it’s the early Mass or later in the day?
So I guess I’d give them the choice: come to Thursday practice and sing on Sunday morning, or come to the other group if you aren’t willing or able to commit to being a “regular” choir member.
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puzzleannie
Guest
in our parish whoever wants to sit up in “those” chairs may do so, but they have to sing. why on earth would this person not be allowed to rejoin the choir?
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thann
Guest
My choir does 4-part harmonies and we have regular weekly rehearsals plus before Mass on Sundays. My director is thrilled to add new members, but she rightly requires that they actually attend rehearsals to learn the music.
A couple of years ago there were two people who dropped in on Sundays unannounced with no prior rehearsals, and no ability to read music (or follow the director, for that matter). She finally had to tell both of them that they had to come to rehearsals after each repeatedly made loud mistakes during the chorales.
One now comes to rehearsals, the other is back in the congregation.
'thann
A couple of years ago there were two people who dropped in on Sundays unannounced with no prior rehearsals, and no ability to read music (or follow the director, for that matter). She finally had to tell both of them that they had to come to rehearsals after each repeatedly made loud mistakes during the chorales.
One now comes to rehearsals, the other is back in the congregation.
'thann
Depends on what you mean by ‘rejoin’.
From the context is seems like this person wanted to sing as an on-the-spot one-time drop-in rather than actually join the choir on a permanent basis.
If the choir director knows the person and his/her talents then the director can certainly chose to allow the visitor. But if the director doesn’t know this person, (or does know the person and has reason to think this person NEEDS to practice), then the director ought to have the right to require a practice first.
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SeekerJen
Guest
Interesting question. I am an “on-hold” choir member (currently on hiatus due to schedule constraints) but am still a cantor, so on the Sundays when I cant at choir Masses, many of the other singers will invite me to join them for the preparation hymn- usually a 4-part harmony piece that they’ve rehearsed several times. If it’s a recycled piece (one we’ve sung before when I was a full-fledged member) I’ll usually take them up on it. Otherwise, I feel awkward about it. I do have good sightsinging skills, and could probably go along just fine, but I feel as though they’ve worked hard for it, they’re the ones who should get to sing.
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Mary1973
Guest
I find that people who just show up after a long absence do not know what they are doing and make a ton of mistakes. It is particularly disturbing when the person doesn’t come to rehearsal and then shows up 10 minutes before Mass.
The purpose of the choir is to add to the liturgy in worshipping God. It’s not for the personal fulfillment of individuals. If you just want to get up “on stage” and sing, go to Kareoke night.
The purpose of the choir is to add to the liturgy in worshipping God. It’s not for the personal fulfillment of individuals. If you just want to get up “on stage” and sing, go to Kareoke night.
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Lux_et_Tenebrae
Guest
Worth repeating.
Anybody who just “shows up” for anything after a long absence, shouldn’t expect anything other than the same treatment as a new member. Choirs are very different. If the music is well rehearsed and uses harmony, drop-ins probably wouldn’t know it and would only throw off some of the others. If it is a very informal choir just leading the congregation in the melody line from the hymnal, it probably wouldn’t matter. Perhaps a good compromise would be to have the person sit near the choir and see how they do. In our parish it would be easy, since the choir is the front rows of one of the sections of pews, and we do not wear robes.
Lux
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Cat
Guest
Your choir Rules should be in writing, and when someone inquires, they should be thanked pleasantly for their interest and then given a written copy of those rules.
If nothing is in writing, then how can anyone say that a newbie can’t join in? It’s really not very nice to make up “rules” on the spot, or to cite some official unwrittten rule. That seems to have the potential for “elitism.” It gives the choir director too much power and at the same time, not enough power.
Also, when things are in writing, complaints subside. Without written rules, people tend to fuss and fret and start rumors.
Suggestions for the Written Rules: Music-reading required? Ability to carry a tune or sing in a pleasant voice that blends with the other choir members? Ability to follow a director? Rehearsal requirements? Dismissal policies? Rules about bringing babies or children to rehearsals or Mass? Fees (why not? Music costs!) Policies about the type of music the choir will do (eliminate gripes about “boring classical music” or “irreverent contemporary music”) Knowledge of pronunciation of Latin or other languages, or will these be taught during the rehearsal? DRESS requirements–are there robes, or do members have to dress up? Is someone allowed to sing if they show up in jeans and a t-shirt? Solo policies–how are soloists selected? Absences–written excuse? Oral excuse OK? How many times can a member miss and still remain in the choir?
Along with the written Rules, everyone in the choir should receive a written copy of rehearsal, Masses, and most importantly, special events (e.g., the Christmas schedule, any concerts or outside-of-Mass events like parties, personal appearances at the Mall, etc.) so that there are no surprises or complaints. Phone numbers/emails of the director and other officers in the choir should be included.
I believe that even if your choir is very laid-back with no formal organization, this should still be stated in a written document. That way, organization nuts like me don’t get upset and try to whip everything into shape and create a formal organization where none is wanted.
You can tell I’ve been through this! Actually, my daughter is a professional stage manager.
If nothing is in writing, then how can anyone say that a newbie can’t join in? It’s really not very nice to make up “rules” on the spot, or to cite some official unwrittten rule. That seems to have the potential for “elitism.” It gives the choir director too much power and at the same time, not enough power.
Also, when things are in writing, complaints subside. Without written rules, people tend to fuss and fret and start rumors.
Suggestions for the Written Rules: Music-reading required? Ability to carry a tune or sing in a pleasant voice that blends with the other choir members? Ability to follow a director? Rehearsal requirements? Dismissal policies? Rules about bringing babies or children to rehearsals or Mass? Fees (why not? Music costs!) Policies about the type of music the choir will do (eliminate gripes about “boring classical music” or “irreverent contemporary music”) Knowledge of pronunciation of Latin or other languages, or will these be taught during the rehearsal? DRESS requirements–are there robes, or do members have to dress up? Is someone allowed to sing if they show up in jeans and a t-shirt? Solo policies–how are soloists selected? Absences–written excuse? Oral excuse OK? How many times can a member miss and still remain in the choir?
Along with the written Rules, everyone in the choir should receive a written copy of rehearsal, Masses, and most importantly, special events (e.g., the Christmas schedule, any concerts or outside-of-Mass events like parties, personal appearances at the Mall, etc.) so that there are no surprises or complaints. Phone numbers/emails of the director and other officers in the choir should be included.
I believe that even if your choir is very laid-back with no formal organization, this should still be stated in a written document. That way, organization nuts like me don’t get upset and try to whip everything into shape and create a formal organization where none is wanted.
You can tell I’ve been through this! Actually, my daughter is a professional stage manager.
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Sarabande
Guest
Cat gave some great advice on this.
The choir at our cathedral does music as simple as hymns to 8 part polyphony. I sang in it for 4 years. My husband sang for 8 years. During that time, we’ve had members come and go and come back again. There were also members who had left 10 years prior and was able to devote time to singing in it again. The choir director will have auditions to see the level of the person joining. Since it is a volunteer choir, he can’t be too picky, but the person has to be able to sing in tune and capable of learning. Most of the members aren’t really musicians, so the director is always happy to have people in there who can read music and understand it. They have practice once a week in order to learn this music since almost all of it has at least 4-part harmony. At the beginning of each season, he will mail out the important masses and events. A returning or new choir member who does not know how to read music will usually be seated near a person the voice part who can help lead them. Those who know how to read music, really don’t need to have that.
Anyway, if you have a formal member who’d like to join again, just re-audition him/her to see where they stand.
The choir at our cathedral does music as simple as hymns to 8 part polyphony. I sang in it for 4 years. My husband sang for 8 years. During that time, we’ve had members come and go and come back again. There were also members who had left 10 years prior and was able to devote time to singing in it again. The choir director will have auditions to see the level of the person joining. Since it is a volunteer choir, he can’t be too picky, but the person has to be able to sing in tune and capable of learning. Most of the members aren’t really musicians, so the director is always happy to have people in there who can read music and understand it. They have practice once a week in order to learn this music since almost all of it has at least 4-part harmony. At the beginning of each season, he will mail out the important masses and events. A returning or new choir member who does not know how to read music will usually be seated near a person the voice part who can help lead them. Those who know how to read music, really don’t need to have that.
Anyway, if you have a formal member who’d like to join again, just re-audition him/her to see where they stand.
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