Returning to Catholicism after "changing sexes?"

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Like everybody else stated-------talk to a priest!!!

You’re in our prayers.

Personally, I think you should stay the way you are now, but pursue a life of chastity.

But that’s just me, of course!!!

Good luck!!!

 

[mgreen77]

Personally, I think you should stay the way you are now, but pursue a life of chastity.

Why chastity?

Because I shouldn’t marry, so any intimacy would be immoral?

Or because being intimate with either sex is morally confusing now?

Mind you, I’ve been celibate for years, so it’s not exactly a big change for me, but I’m curious what immorality I’m looking to avoid… ?

 

[Taurks]

Nothing will remain unforgiven if you ask for fogiveness - even if the effect can’t be undone. Paul murdered Christians, and he was forgiven. The forgiveness didn’t bring back the dead, but it was nonetheless complete forgiveness by God.

I am absolutely certain that God loves all His children just for the fact that they are His children. Why would He make us, if not to love us?

 

[mgreen77]

The only problem/sin I could see popping up would be if you decided to get married…

Why though?

I mean OK, if that’s Church Doctrine, then so be it. I don’t mean to question or change it, but understand the intent?

Not that I want to marry a woman, but if “nothing’s changed” by surgery, and I’m still male in the eyes of the Church, why can’t I still marry a female like I could before?

 

[blackrobe]

Why though?

I mean OK, if that’s Church Doctrine, then so be it. I don’t mean to question or change it, but understand the intent?

Not that I want to marry a woman, but if “nothing’s changed” by surgery, and I’m still male in the eyes of the Church, why can’t I still marry a female like I could before?

Because among the impediments to marriage is the pre-existing and permanent inability to perform the marital act which includes penetration and deposit. Forgive me if I am assuming too much but this seems to be an obstacle in your case.

BTW, thank you for this frank discussion which has provided a remarkable opportunity to exercise the intellect in several matters of moral theology.

AMDG
jsa

 

[mgreen77]

Because among the impediments to marriage is the pre-existing and permanent inability to perform the marital act which includes penetration and deposit. Forgive me if I am assuming too much but this seems to be an obstacle in your case.

Ah OK, I understand, makes sense… and yes, quite true for myself.

And as for marrying a man, am I right that while my infertility isn’t a problem, and I can function intimately for him… it’s the whole chromosone thing or whatever that rules out marrying a man?

If so that’s really ashame, since on a purely practical, functional level it seems I’d make a perfectly valid wife. It’s just this idea of “what I am,” these labels that prevent it

I know, rules are rules…

BTW, thank you for this frank discussion which has provided a remarkable opportunity to exercise the intellect in several matters of moral theology.

Thank YOU all for taking the time to answer my questions! I AM learning, I just have a lot to catch up on. I promise I won’t always be so full of questions

 

[mgreen77]

Was my “change” then a Mortal Sin?

I wasn’t a practicing Catholic, but I certainly knew at the time that some people would consider it immoral, but I didn’t believe it to be so, as I knew those people also didn’t truly understand my motives… which weren’t “oh this will be so cool for me, the heck with everyone else!” but more of choosing the least “bad” choice in order to conform and stop feeling like I was deceiving and lying to everyone (not that I “was a girl inside,” but that no one knew I was carrying around such a heavy secret).

In a really odd way, it was kind of a “confession” of sorts for me, putting myself out there finally for the world to know and judge me - at least during the changing time. I know this won’t make sense to most of you, but for me it was actually a test of faith. I lept into an abyss, surrenduring to the judgement of society, and perhaps by God. I figured if it worked, then it was meant to be, that since I was doing it to fit into society better, it was up to that society to judge me by either rejecting or accepting me.

Is that though a Mortal Sin?

 

[wjp984]

Have you gone through any physical testing to see if there is any reason you might be more of a woman than a male? Although the definition of a male is the presence of a y chromosome, which you obviously have, I wonder if you have an extra x chromosome or some sort of physical reason why you feel the way you do.

The only reason I bring this up is I am not sure what the condition will be for your absolution. I would think that you would not have to revert back to being a man and could just live a celibate life as a woman, but am unsure. Perhaps some sort of physical evidence to support why you did it would help.

In any regard, if for whatever reason you have a bad encounter with one priest, don’t feel discouraged and try going to another one. However, if there is a conflict with one priest, in regards to either the forgiveness or condition of forgiveness, returning to the church etc., I don’t recommend priest shopping. Simply go to the next highest authority for a more straight answer, most likely a bishop.

Then if that is not successful try going to another bishop or something. There is an appellate process and heirechy in the Chuch ,like any other system so perhaps you should talk to a canon lawyer or spiritual director who knows about this kind of stuff, if necessary.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

You never “stop” being a Catholic, you might only stop practising your Faith.
Welcome back & God bless!
Hope you find the answers you seek.

 

[Debora123]

And as for marrying a man, am I right that while my infertility isn’t a problem, and I can function intimately for him… it’s the whole chromosone thing or whatever that rules out marrying a man?

If so that’s really a shame, since on a purely practical, functional level it seems I’d make a perfectly valid wife. It’s just this idea of “what I am,” these labels that prevent it

You know, quite honestly (and I’ll probably get a lot of criticism on here for saying this), I don’t think it would be wrong for you to marry a man. I’m not even sure if it was wrong for you to physically change your gender either.

I’ve studied/researched your condition a lot, and it IS a birth defect. You were born with male parts and a male body, even though you are a female. The Church has no problem with turning to surgery when the birth defect is an extra finger or any other physical deformity/defect. So I don’t quite understand why it’s wrong with this particular defect. I’m a female, and I would feel/identify myself as female, even if I was born with a penis. It would be extremely traumatizing to me if I was born into a male body, and wanting to remove the penis and get the proper part to fit my identity seems like a completely normal and natural desire - and I don’t see how it would be a sin to desire that.

So yeah, by all means, go to confession anyway. I’m not sure if this is actually wrong or not, given your personal circumstances, but nonetheless, we must always strive to follow what the Church teaches and ask for forgiveness for whatever is hurting our conscience.

Whatever others’ opinions may be, I think we can all agree that it is a very sad and complicated thing to happen to someone. And I am so sorry that you had to go through this.

I think everyone else on here is giving you very good guidelines, advice, and answers:

1. Be at peace with yourself - God loves you and you are ALWAYS forgiven and ALWAYS welcomed back into His Church.
2. Find a good priest/mentor to guide you along the way. Talk to him about all these issues (including the marriage thing), confess, pray, and try to learn as much as you can about the situation you’re in.
3. If you are truly sorry, God has already forgiven you, and will forgive you again through a priest in the confessional. This means you need to forgive yourself as well. Please try to cease feeling ashamed or not worthy - those feelings could be the Devil trying to discourage you and make you feel bad, keeping you from moving forward in your faith and your relationship with God.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have nothing to offer you that others on this thread haven’t already said. Your situation is way beyond anything most of us have ever experienced or dealt with, and we don’t know canon law or theology on this.

Is there anyone in the transgender field who could point you to a priest who understands or has done research on this area? I know there are a lot of psychologists who specialize in these kinds of cases and perhaps they refer to certain experts or at least a priest or a bishop who can be sympathetic and give you good advice. I would hate for you to approach a priest and be berated for what you’ve done…since you are trying to figure out how to go forward from where you are.

And I want to wish you the best, and welcome you back home. God is celebrating your return, and no sin is unforgivable (except blaspheming the Holy Spirit), so you don’t have to worry that you will be rejected. We are all glad for you, that you have found some sort of peace and that you are coming home to your faith.

 

[markomalley]

Was my “change” then a Mortal Sin?

I wasn’t a practicing Catholic, but I certainly knew at the time that some people would consider it immoral, but I didn’t believe it to be so, as I knew those people also didn’t truly understand my motives… which weren’t “oh this will be so cool for me, the heck with everyone else!” but more of choosing the least “bad” choice in order to conform and stop feeling like I was deceiving and lying to everyone (not that I “was a girl inside,” but that no one knew I was carrying around such a heavy secret).

In a really odd way, it was kind of a “confession” of sorts for me, putting myself out there finally for the world to know and judge me - at least during the changing time. I know this won’t make sense to most of you, but for me it was actually a test of faith. I lept into an abyss, surrenduring to the judgement of society, and perhaps by God. I figured if it worked, then it was meant to be, that since I was doing it to fit into society better, it was up to that society to judge me by either rejecting or accepting me.

Is that though a Mortal Sin?

First of all, what is done is done.

Second of all, a person in your situation has an incredibly difficult cross to bear. That would apply to both your pre-operative condition or your current, post-operative condition.

Thirdly, I think that those who have compared your situation to that of a person who repents of having a vasectomy or tubal ligation are correct. A person who has his/her body mutilated in such a fashion is dealing in grave matter; however, once a person repents of what has been done and experiences an interior metanoia, that person would not then be required to go and have the surgery reversed. I would imagine you, who now (if I read you correctly) regrets having your surgery done, should not have to go back and have that surgery reversed. (Having said that, I would think that the hormone treatments would be another matter altogether…considering that they are ongoing). (For the liceity of what they did to you, please refer to footnote 144 of the Charter for Catholic Health Workers)

Having said the above, the best thing I would suggest is to get to confession today rather than tomorrow. You may even want to make an appointment with the confessor so as to be able to do so in more detail. I would suggest that you would benefit from a good spiritual director to help you learn how to bear your cross. Above all, I would commend to you to offer up your sufferings, both physical and mental, in union with Christ for the salvation of souls.

You may want to become intimately familiar with John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter on Human Suffering (Salvifici Doloris). It does not deal strictly with physical pain and suffering, but the whole spectrum.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

QUOTE=mgreen77;7295581]Well, for me, it’s not because of what you hear on Oprah lol. It wasn’t because I’m a “woman on the inside” or “have a female brain” or whatever some people claim. I don’t even know what that means? I’m just me inside.

It’s just that I’ve always, since I was born, thought I “should” have been born female instead. Not necessarily “wanted” or “wished” I was, but assumed I “should” have been. Why? I have no idea. I’ve tried to figure it out for decades, and never could. It just IS and always was for me. I’ve never known anything else. It didn’t “happen” to me one day, I never “realized” it, it was just always there from as long back as I can remember, nagging at me 24/7.

And throughout my life, people sorta treated me “as if” I was a girl. Hard to explain, but I confused people and made them uncomfortable, even though I’m not effeminate, never considered myself gay. It got to a point where ironically, I felt like people saw me as a woman trying to pose as a man, and getting mad at me for it. Not literally, I mean I was obviously a male, but life FELT like that for me. Like everyone “knew” my big, dark secret, no matter how hard I tried to hide it.

This is so similar to how I felt, almost exactly.

 

[mgreen77]

This is so similar to how I felt, almost exactly.

Sadly though, as you’ve probably seen now from reading around here, I don’t expect the Church will ever officially recognize us as we are, but only as we were… and only if we repent.

But as others have suggested, consider talking to a Priest? I don’t think there’s any official doctrine here to go by. So who knows?

 

[cathoichelp]

Well, for me, it’s not because of what you hear on Oprah lol. It wasn’t because I’m a “woman on the inside” or “have a female brain” or whatever some people claim. I don’t even know what that means? I’m just me inside.

It’s just that I’ve always, since I was born, thought I “should” have been born female instead. Not necessarily “wanted” or “wished” I was, but assumed I “should” have been. Why? I have no idea. I’ve tried to figure it out for decades, and never could. It just IS and always was for me. I’ve never known anything else. It didn’t “happen” to me one day, I never “realized” it, it was just always there from as long back as I can remember, nagging at me 24/7.

And throughout my life, people sorta treated me “as if” I was a girl. Hard to explain, but I confused people and made them uncomfortable, even though I’m not effeminate, never considered myself gay. It got to a point where ironically, I felt like people saw me as a woman trying to pose as a man, and getting mad at me for it. Not literally, I mean I was obviously a male, but life FELT like that for me. Like everyone “knew” my big, dark secret, no matter how hard I tried to hide it.

Eventually it wore me down. I felt guilty, like I was confusing and hurting people by giving straight guys “gay thoughts,” and confusing girls who couldn’t grasp that I wanted their friendship, not attraction.

So I gave up and did it. And honestly, it was no big deal. It’s not like what you see on TV or the internet. I did it quietly, adjusted my timing to consider the feelings of my friends and famly and coworkers, and everything went fine. No one really even cared, it was more of a sigh of relief from everyone.

And I’m OK with it, life makes sense for me and everyone now, EXCEPT for these nagging spiriitual questions I have. It seems everyone else is happy with me, but I just can’t figure out what God thinks now. It’s not like it’s something I can repent exactly, because every day I exist would seem to be a sin now.

I guess I just want forgiveness. For Him to realize I was in a tight spot, and kinda picked the lesser of evils, not for self-pleasure, but to stop feeling so incredibly guilty for the mess I seemed to be making of the lives around me.

I left the church a long time ago -
I committed what is considered a mortal sin - and I simply don’t agree with the teaching … anyway - this may be helpful to you … Recently, in speaking with a priest - who then had me call the national center for Catholic Bioethics - I learned that if i wanted to rejoin the church and not confess that “sin” I could -
Because my intent and where my heart currently are w the issue leaves it so that I would not really be doing anything by confessing anyway other than going through the motions and its better for me to return to my faith … then to fight my faith over just one issue.
That doesn’t really make it more or less of a sin in the eyes of the church but as this priest told me perhaps it was a matter for me and God not a matter for he and I -
Now I have no intention of returning to the church I am just dating someone who is Catholic -
but it was an interesting answer and definitely different than all I had gotten before which were basically you need to repent and understand why this is a sin …
I digress -

If your heart is telling you you should be with the church… and I were you - I would go back to church. Be who you are and talk to your local parish.
We all do the best with who we are right? I know in the Catholic faith you are to strive for perfection … but I don’t know anyone who as reached that - so regardless of if you have or have not sinned - or sin farther - or get married … being w/ the faith that is calling you and doing your absolute best seems like the best course of action.
You may never reconcile this issue while on earth but don’t beat yourself up over it don’t live your whole life feeling bad for doing something to stop feeling bad
Just do your best from here …
that’s my inspirational speech
good luck
Best-

 

[cathoichelp]

Sadly though, as you’ve probably seen now from reading around here, I don’t expect the Church will ever officially recognize us as we are, but only as we were… and only if we repent.

But as others have suggested, consider talking to a Priest? I don’t think there’s any official doctrine here to go by. So who knows?

Another thing is you don’t have to be sorry to repent - you can go to confession acknowledging a sin - even if your emotional state is not of remorse.
So if you wanted to confess and repent you can-

I was offered this option by the priest I spoke with I am just not comfortable with that -
however it may be helpful for you…

 

[Elizabeth502]

Another thing is ***you don’t have to be sorry to repent ***- you can go to confession acknowledging a sin - even if your emotional state is not of remorse.
So if you wanted to confess and repent you can- I was offered this option by the priest I spoke with I am just not comfortable with that - however it may be helpful for you…

The OP should be extremely clear that for a Confession to be sacramentally valid, contrition (sorrow for the sin) is essential. I’m not in a position to know what a priest did or did not say, meant or did not mean, to this poster above, but there is no Church doctrine which approves of ‘going through the motions’ for its own sake. The minimum that a Catholic must have in the Confessional is what is called Imperfect Contrition (fear of God’s punishment), but the word ‘contrition’ is still in there. If the sin has not been regretted, the Sacrament is ineffective. (The graces do not materialize.)

OTOH, I would encourage any possible revert to avail themselves of speaking to a priest, including in the Confessional, about states of contrition or lack thereof. Very often, merely taking that opportunity is the first step toward moral awareness and eventually contrition of either the imperfect or “Perfect” kind. Because counseling with regard to possible or actual offenses is a legitimate part of Confession, and it is also legitimate for a Catholic to choose anonymity in that regard.

 

[catharina]

The OP should be extremely clear that for a Confession to be sacramentally valid, contrition (sorrow for the sin) is essential. I’m not in a position to know what a priest did or did not say, meant or did not mean, to this poster above, but there is no Church doctrine which approves of ‘going through the motions’ for its own sake. The minimum that a Catholic must have in the Confessional is what is called Imperfect Contrition (fear of God’s punishment), but the word ‘contrition’ is still in there. If the sin has not been regretted, the Sacrament is ineffective. (The graces do not materialize.)

OTOH, I would encourage any possible revert to avail themselves of speaking to a priest, including in the Confessional, about states of contrition or lack thereof. Very often, merely taking that opportunity is the first step toward moral awareness and eventually contrition of either the imperfect or “Perfect” kind. Because counseling with regard to possible or actual offenses is a legitimate part of Confession, and it is also legitimate for a Catholic to choose anonymity in that regard.

Yes, Elizabeth.

 

[benidict]

Sadly though, as you’ve probably seen now from reading around here, I don’t expect the Church will ever officially recognize us as we are, but only as we were… and only if we repent.

But as others have suggested, consider talking to a Priest? I don’t think there’s any official doctrine here to go by. So who knows?

:hug1: Peace and prayers for you, Dear Child Of God.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Because among the impediments to marriage is the pre-existing and permanent inability to perform the marital act which includes penetration and deposit. Forgive me if I am assuming too much but this seems to be an obstacle in your case.

BTW, thank you for this frank discussion which has provided a remarkable opportunity to exercise the intellect in several matters of moral theology.

AMDG
jsa

Sounds romantic. LOL