Returning to Church -- Mariage Questions

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Absolution

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I am returning to the Church after a long (20+ year) absence. I was baptized in the Catholic Church, received First Communion/Confession, but left the Church before Confirmation. I was married 14 years ago to a non-Catholic in a civil ceremony. About a year after my marriage I joined a Baptist church, and my wife joined the church and was baptized as a Baptist. As I understand it, my marriage is not valid in the Catholic Church because I was a Catholic (although I didn’t consider myself a Catholic at the time), and I didn’t receive a dispensation from the Church. So my questions are:
  1. Is my understanding regarding the invalidity of my marriage correct?
  2. If so, am I living in a state of mortal sin just by being married? Or by having sexual relations with my wife in an invalid marriage?
  3. Separate issue – my wife has been using the pill since our son was born 12 years ago, with my consent. As Baptists, neither of us had a problem with it. She won’t stop using it (I asked); she doesn’t want more kids and won’t consider NFP. Obviously she’s not going to change her mind overnight just because I decided to come back to the Church, especially given that I went through a couple years of spiritual turmoil before I came back and I haven’t really had time to prove to her that this is the end of my “wandering.” What should I do? Do I have to refrain from sexual relations with her as long as she’s on the pill? That won’t go over well with her, but if that’s what I need to do I will.
Thanks
 
Absolution:

First welcome back to the Church, and may God complete the good work he has begun in you through his son Jesus.

I do not feel that I can answer your question through a discussion board, as it sounds like you need to sit down and talk to someone person-to-person who has the wisdom, holiness, and experience of years. Also, you will have to be patient with yourself and with your wife to make it through this time. The good news is, you are not alone: Christ is with you in your seeking the truth and in seeking to be faithful to your obligations and your family.

I regret not being able to offer you anything more specific. I am very concerned that a discussion board is too treacherous a medium to speak any more than generally.

With prayers,

vacath
 
Absolution said:
I am returning to the Church after a long (20+ year) absence. I was baptized in the Catholic Church, received First Communion/Confession, but left the Church before Confirmation. I was married 14 years ago to a non-Catholic in a civil ceremony. About a year after my marriage I joined a Baptist church, and my wife joined the church and was baptized as a Baptist. As I understand it, my marriage is not valid in the Catholic Church because I was a Catholic (although I didn’t consider myself a Catholic at the time), and I didn’t receive a dispensation from the Church. So my questions are:
  1. Is my understanding regarding the invalidity of my marriage correct?
  2. If so, am I living in a state of mortal sin just by being married? Or by having sexual relations with my wife in an invalid marriage?
  3. Separate issue – my wife has been using the pill since our son was born 12 years ago, with my consent. As Baptists, neither of us had a problem with it. She won’t stop using it (I asked); she doesn’t want more kids and won’t consider NFP. Obviously she’s not going to change her mind overnight just because I decided to come back to the Church, especially given that I went through a couple years of spiritual turmoil before I came back and I haven’t really had time to prove to her that this is the end of my “wandering.” What should I do? Do I have to refrain from sexual relations with her as long as she’s on the pill? That won’t go over well with her, but if that’s what I need to do I will.
Thanks
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I may be doing you a disservice as this is a pet peeve of mine but here we go-

#1 Your marriage is an INVALID SACRAMENT, not necessarily an invalid marriage. These are not the same thing. You are “Naturally married” as the church uses the term.

#2 By rejecting Church teaching you are considered in sin. The marriage issue is one of the issues, but not alone as many other failures to obey are also present. All of this is fixable. The question on relations is truly divided, while some will say you can loop-hole out by living as brother and sister. I side with the Priests who say abandoning your husband/father duties should not be a viable option. Remember it is an invalid marriage SACRAMENT, not the same as an invalid marriage.

#3 ABC (artificial birth control) One spouse can hold a responsibility of sin on this if that spouse acts alone and against the desires of the other spouse. So if you encourage ABC your under penalty for such. If you discourage ABC you are not under penalty for its use. Again your duties as a husband have reasonable expectations which you are obligated to.

So what is ahead? Well we hope RCIA and consulting with the local marriage ministry, after investigating whether both parties were free to marry, whether both parties chose to stay married, completing RCIA (hopefully both of you) then all church paperwork can be process to allow full church compliance on all issues for both spouses. The child issue will probably be a form of RCIA which will depend on your parish’s resources.

Hope that helps
 
Absolution said:
I am returning to the Church after a long (20+ year) absence. I was baptized in the Catholic Church, received First Communion/Confession, but left the Church before Confirmation. I was married 14 years ago to a non-Catholic in a civil ceremony. About a year after my marriage I joined a Baptist church, and my wife joined the church and was baptized as a Baptist. As I understand it, my marriage is not valid in the Catholic Church because I was a Catholic (although I didn’t consider myself a Catholic at the time), and I didn’t receive a dispensation from the Church. So my questions are:
  1. Is my understanding regarding the invalidity of my marriage correct?
  2. If so, am I living in a state of mortal sin just by being married? Or by having sexual relations with my wife in an invalid marriage?
  3. Separate issue – my wife has been using the pill since our son was born 12 years ago, with my consent. As Baptists, neither of us had a problem with it. She won’t stop using it (I asked); she doesn’t want more kids and won’t consider NFP. Obviously she’s not going to change her mind overnight just because I decided to come back to the Church, especially given that I went through a couple years of spiritual turmoil before I came back and I haven’t really had time to prove to her that this is the end of my “wandering.” What should I do? Do I have to refrain from sexual relations with her as long as she’s on the pill? That won’t go over well with her, but if that’s what I need to do I will.
Thanks
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You’ve got two options here. My mum always said that condoms are more ethical than the pill as they are a true contraceptive ie. prevent the egg and sperm meeting each other rather than causing a fertilised egg to abort. Spermicide however, has a very small abortifacient effect and has also been banned by the WHO for damaging the lining of the vagina so most condom manufacturers have removed it. I personally would ask her if we could switch to non-spermicidal condoms (and non-lubricated if possible) although I think they’ve got a lower effectiveness against pregnancy. Even vasectomy is more ethical than birth control pills.

You could help her to get interested in NFP and there are books on Natural Family Planning on Amazon. I’d recommend Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (second hand is as good as new although look for a good credit rating to ensure that it arrives). Also there are fertility monitors in the shops such as Clearblue fertility monitor and NFP products in large pharmacists here in the UK and hopefully at your end.

There’s also the FAM method which is using a barrier method during a couple’s fertile period such as non-spermicidal condom and having free sexual intercourse at other times. This has a lower rate of effectiveness against pregnancy rate than total abstinence but might be suitable in your situation. I would not recommend this for a couple that are not using contraception at all and have no desire to use it although it’s sometimes justifiable in accordance with conscience.

I wouldn’t take the contraceptive pill under any circumstances as I came from a pro-life household and it’s one of the least pro-life forms of contraceptive, excepting IUDS. It’s probable that it as equally abortifacient as the morning after pill and up to one a year if we take the pro-life organisations estimate, although 1 in every 4 years if we take the health services estimate. The contraceptive pill is also a type of steroid and contains a substance that is chemically similar to testosterone which has been labelled as Progesterone, something called ethynyl testosterone acetate also known as Norethisterone or norethindrone. So it’s a sex change drug.
 
Regarding your marriage:

Yes, it is currently invalid. Canon Law applies here:

Can. 1108 §1. **Only those marriages are valid which **are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

However, this is easy to correct if you have no other impediments (prior marriages for either of you, for example). Your marriage can be made valid through convalidation or radical sanation-- first step is to see your priest about this.

You should also see your priest for Confession (if you haven’t already) and spiritual guidance on what to do regarding sexual relations until your marriage is convalidated. You should also inquire as to the procedure for adult confirmation in your diocese and complete your sacraments of initation once your marriage situation is rectified.

And, lastly regarding contraception-- the Church does not require you to abstain from relations with your wife if she insists on contracepting. The Church offers guidance to priests on this, so speak to your pastor about it.

And, as an aside, “budgie2” makes it sound as if there are “levels” of contraception with some being more or less moral. This is NOT Church teaching. This is his opinion on the matter. The Church teaches that all contraception is intrinsically disordered and a violation of the Sixth Commandment. There’s no such thing as a more or less moral form of contraception.

I do encourage you to continue to witness to your wife on these matters.
 
I just want to clarify what another poster said in regards to contraception. You have told your spouse that you do not want to use yet she is not Catholic and feels there is no sin involved. Thus as long as you don’t encourage her to continue to use it but make it known you wish she wouldn’t, you are not sinning and should not refrain from relations with your wife.

Joe
 
Thanks to all for the advice. Confession is the first thing I did. That’s how I picked my username. When the priest said my sins were absolved it was a powerful moment for me.

Anyway, my priest said after the confession that I wouldn’t need to do RCIA since I’m already baptized and received my first communion, but he said there’s a Confirmation class, which I’m currently looking into. There’s also a family catechesis program that I’m looking into to introduce the faith to my family.

Texas Roofer – I mentioned being married outside of the Church during confession, and raising my son outside of the church. Are there other areas of disobedience you were referring to?
 
You probably need your marriage blessed by the Church. From what you have said it sounds like you are validly married to me but I’m not an expert on that part of the CC.

Joe
 
Trust in your priest and ask him any questions you have.Write them all down & make an appointment to see him & go through them one by one.Well meaning people on this site can give you opinions but facts will come from your priest.
Welcome back I m so glad for you and hope you feel inspired & invigorated & motivated by Our Blessed Lord.Pray to Him He works in mysterious ways.God loves you He loves us all.Do not sit and worry yourself, speak to your priest he sounds great!!
 
Absolution said:
Thanks to all for the advice. Confession is the first thing I did. That’s how I picked my username. When the priest said my sins were absolved it was a powerful moment for me.

Anyway, my priest said after the confession that I wouldn’t need to do RCIA since I’m already baptized and received my first communion, but he said there’s a Confirmation class, which I’m currently looking into. There’s also a family catechesis program that I’m looking into to introduce the faith to my family.

Texas Roofer – I mentioned being married outside of the Church during confession, and raising my son outside of the church. Are there other areas of disobedience you were referring to?
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Well it would seem things are progressing out of order however in the end it will not matter as long as you get it all done. The confirmation class is great, and that combined with a convalidated marriage* and you should be okay.
  • I think the convalidation will require a dispensation first.
Good Luck
 
jwashu said:
I just want to clarify what another poster said in regards to contraception. You have told your spouse that you do not want to use yet she is not Catholic and feels there is no sin involved. Thus as long as you don’t encourage her to continue to use it but make it known you wish she wouldn’t, you are not sinning and should not refrain from relations with your wife.

Joe
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I am sorry to disagree with you there. When you engage in sexual relationships, it takes two and you are both committing a sin by using the contraceptive. However, the decision to use the contraceptive may be made by one person, but you both carry the burden of the contraceptive use in your marriage. You might not be able to stop your partner from using the contraceptive however, you should certainly try to, or at least choose a more ethical form of contraception. If your wife is using an abortifacient drug such as birth control pills or planning on having an abortion it is ethical to abstain until switching to a non-abortifacient form of contraception. This is because in certain circumstances a child could be destroyed following the sexual act and you are assisting in this. Some people do not see a fertilised egg as a child but I do as I believe it has a soul. Every sin can be forgiven including mortal sin. Your wife is not really fully guilty for her actions if her conscience is not informed but as a good Catholic husband I should try to take care of my wife’s and my children’s well being. Sorry, as a mixed marriage couple, both partners carry the guilt of contraception and are forced to use it in the sexual act.

Non-spermicidal condom is more ethical than a spermicidal condom. Spermicidal condom is far more ethical than a birth control pill although spermicidal condoms are currently being banned by the Word Health Organisation.

Vasectomy and tubal litigation are more ethical than birth control pills and abortion as they are non-abortifacients. Vasectomy is more ethical than tubal litigation on the grounds that it is easier to reverse and also there is a risk of ectopic pregnancy associated with tubal litigation. If couple want to use a double method of contraception to avoid vasectomy or tubal litigation then they should use NFP with non-spermicidal, non-lubricated condoms.
NFP is more ethical than the above but by a narrow margin sometimes.
 
budgie2 said:
You’ve got two options here. My mum always said that condoms are more ethical than the pill as they are a true contraceptive ie. prevent the egg and sperm meeting each other rather than causing a fertilised egg to abort. Spermicide however, has a very small abortifacient effect and has also been banned by the WHO for damaging the lining of the vagina so most condom manufacturers have removed it. I personally would ask her if we could switch to non-spermicidal condoms (and non-lubricated if possible) although I think they’ve got a lower effectiveness against pregnancy. Even vasectomy is more ethical than birth control pills.

You could help her to get interested in NFP and there are books on Natural Family Planning on Amazon. I’d recommend Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (second hand is as good as new although look for a good credit rating to ensure that it arrives). Also there are fertility monitors in the shops such as Clearblue fertility monitor and NFP products in large pharmacists here in the UK and hopefully at your end.

There’s also the FAM method which is using a barrier method during a couple’s fertile period such as non-spermicidal condom and having free sexual intercourse at other times. This has a lower rate of effectiveness against pregnancy rate than total abstinence but might be suitable in your situation. I would not recommend this for a couple that are not using contraception at all and have no desire to use it although it’s sometimes justifiable in accordance with conscience.

I wouldn’t take the contraceptive pill under any circumstances as I came from a pro-life household and it’s one of the least pro-life forms of contraceptive, excepting IUDS. It’s probable that it as equally abortifacient as the morning after pill and up to one a year if we take the pro-life organisations estimate, although 1 in every 4 years if we take the health services estimate. The contraceptive pill is also a type of steroid and contains a substance that is chemically similar to testosterone which has been labelled as Progesterone, something called ethynyl testosterone acetate also known as Norethisterone or norethindrone. So it’s a sex change drug.
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There are no pro-life forms of contraceptives. You are either pro-life entirely and choose not to partake in contraceptives, or you are pro-choice and do so. Also, I am not sure I understand what you are saying here: “pill is also a type of steroid and contains a substance that is chemically similar to testosterone which has been labelled as Progesterone, something called ethynyl testosterone acetate also known as Norethisterone or norethindrone. So it’s a sex change drug” Are you saying that progesterone is a chemically synthetic substance? Because progesterone and estrogen are both naturally occurring female hormones. Estrogen is commonly present at fertile times, and progesterone is common during infertile phases, and also pregnancy. Progesterone is what helps to sustain the fetus while the placenta develops. An absence or low-level of progesterone during early stages of pregnancy can cause a miscarriage. Please further explain your comment.
 
dobbs88 said:
There are no pro-life forms of contraceptives. You are either pro-life entirely and choose not to partake in contraceptives, or you are pro-choice and do so… .
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:hmmm: :hmmm: Most abortions as defined by this crowd occur in married woman which take no contraceptives of any kind. Some estimate 3 abortions per live birth, other say probably 2 abortions for live birth, other say one to one. While the other side produces less abortions. It is simple math the abortions are a function of relations and egg production, more eggs and relations equals more abortions. Fewer eggs and less sex means less abortions. The church teaching separates abortions by intended abortions and unintended abortions, something to consider.
 
budgie2 said:
I am sorry to disagree with you there. When you engage in sexual relationships, it takes two and you are both committing a sin by using the contraceptive. However, the decision to use the contraceptive may be made by one person, but you both carry the burden of the contraceptive use in your marriage. You might not be able to stop your partner from using the contraceptive however, you should certainly try to, or at least choose a more ethical form of contraception. If your wife is using an abortifacient drug such as birth control pills or planning on having an abortion it is ethical to abstain until switching to a non-abortifacient form of contraception. This is because in certain circumstances a child could be destroyed following the sexual act and you are assisting in this. Some people do not see a fertilised egg as a child but I do as I believe it has a soul. Every sin can be forgiven including mortal sin. Your wife is not really fully guilty for her actions if her conscience is not informed but as a good Catholic husband I should try to take care of my wife’s and my children’s well being. Sorry, as a mixed marriage couple, both partners carry the guilt of contraception and are forced to use it in the sexual act.

Non-spermicidal condom is more ethical than a spermicidal condom. Spermicidal condom is far more ethical than a birth control pill although spermicidal condoms are currently being banned by the Word Health Organisation.

Vasectomy and tubal litigation are more ethical than birth control pills and abortion as they are non-abortifacients. Vasectomy is more ethical than tubal litigation on the grounds that it is easier to reverse and also there is a risk of ectopic pregnancy associated with tubal litigation. If couple want to use a double method of contraception to avoid vasectomy or tubal litigation then they should use NFP with non-spermicidal, non-lubricated condoms.
NFP is more ethical than the above but by a narrow margin sometimes.
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Budgie - this is what, the 426th time that someone has asked you to back up what you claim with one valid shread of Church teaching.

Can you?
 
budgie2 said:
I am sorry to disagree with you there. When you engage in sexual relationships, it takes two and you are both committing a sin by using the contraceptive. However, the decision to use the contraceptive may be made by one person, but you both carry the burden of the contraceptive use in your marriage. You might not be able to stop your partner from using the contraceptive however, you should certainly try to, or at least choose a more ethical form of contraception. If your wife is using an abortifacient drug such as birth control pills or planning on having an abortion it is ethical to abstain until switching to a non-abortifacient form of contraception. This is because in certain circumstances a child could be destroyed following the sexual act and you are assisting in this. Some people do not see a fertilised egg as a child but I do as I believe it has a soul. Every sin can be forgiven including mortal sin. Your wife is not really fully guilty for her actions if her conscience is not informed but as a good Catholic husband I should try to take care of my wife’s and my children’s well being. Sorry, as a mixed marriage couple, both partners carry the guilt of contraception and are forced to use it in the sexual act.

Non-spermicidal condom is more ethical than a spermicidal condom. Spermicidal condom is far more ethical than a birth control pill although spermicidal condoms are currently being banned by the Word Health Organisation.

Vasectomy and tubal litigation are more ethical than birth control pills and abortion as they are non-abortifacients. Vasectomy is more ethical than tubal litigation on the grounds that it is easier to reverse and also there is a risk of ectopic pregnancy associated with tubal litigation. If couple want to use a double method of contraception to avoid vasectomy or tubal litigation then they should use NFP with non-spermicidal, non-lubricated condoms.
NFP is more ethical than the above but by a narrow margin sometimes.
Click to expand...
My answer is almost word for word form Michelle A. here at CA - search the Ask an Apologist section if you need clarification.
 
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