Returning to the Church out of fear?

[littlered123]

I mean unless our parents are lying it’s not that hard to tell even with just a dna test. It also doesn’t change a huge amount for me if I am or am not adopted. Whether I must follow a certain religion changes a lot about how one must view the world and behave

 

[otjm]

I was not sure you would answer.

However, you repeatedly say that you have doubts about religion. Proving you are not adopted (without going to a dna test) is the same process as proving the Gospels are true.

There is written evidence, and scholarship continues to show the reliability of the Gospels. Looking at your birth certificate is the same process; it would take a great deal of corruption to fake a birth certificate from a hospital.

And both documents have independent support; there are others who were/are a live at the time who can testify independent of the documents to the evidence of truth.

And the Gospels have evidence that a birth certificate does not; out of the twelve Apostles (including Matthias, who replaced Judas), 11 of them were eventually executed for the faith. Most people are not willing to die while upholding a lie. And down through the centuries untold numbers have died for the Faith.

You talk about returning o the Church out of fear. As I read what you wrote, it seems (and I could be wrong, as information is extremely limited to this thread) that you may want to have your cake and eat it. Meaning, you want to hedge your bets about eternal life, and have your relationship, which appears to be without marriage to this guy, or a marriage that would terminate if you followed Church teaching.

I don’t know how much you have discussed returning to the Church with this person, but what you propose as roadblocks (e.g. birth control) has two issues as I see it.

1. you don’t seem to believe that he would love you enough to forego sexual relations for part of a month. And I am not interested in a comeback that indicates he does not have that much self control (let alone love). If his attitude is that he needs to have sexual relations with you whenever he deems it necessary/important/whatever else, then I would suggest that you are being used. That is harsh; but not divorced from reality.
2. Janet Smith, a former professor of moral theology, did a very interesting talk given to priests concerning birth control/nfp. In part of that talk she noted her observations that people who practice nfp appear to have happier marriages; the base of that appears to be a mutual respect each spouse has for the other in general and based in part on their mutual respect for sexual intercourse. She also added that in her experience, women often were far more negative about nfp than men, and that negativity appears to be generated by a fear that if they are not sexually available at any/all times, the men would “move on”. (continued)

 

[otjm]

Continued)
It amazes me that women seem to be of the mindset that being sexually available to their spouse is such a critical issue, and indicates to me a basic intrinsic lack of self awareness and self respect, as well as an apparent unwillingness to expect and demand respect from their spouse. I have often said that the pill is the biggest joke that men have played on women, because the use of the pill (theoretically) guarantees the woman will not become pregnant, thereby removing one of the (reasons/excuses/you name it) that women have in not wanting to engage sexually at any particular time.

History is overflowing of men joking about women not wanting to have sexual relations and/or turning it into a “bargaining chip” - a sad and really poor way of dealing with what can be one of the deepest meaningful exchanges people can have, and reducing it to something the woman needs to endure to maintain the relationship.

I can’t resolve your dilemma. I would suggest that if you want to sort out the sexual aspects of your relationship, you both read Theology of the Body for beginners, by Christopher West; perhaps it can resolve what I suspect is one of the biggest roadblocks you are dealing with.

 

[jochoa]

I don’t know what comes after. I don’t mind if nothing comes after and we cease existing. I don’t want eternal suffering to come after though that’s for sure

Here is one challenging consideration for yourself, that I know of because I wrestled with this mentality for some time too.
When one shares, “I don’t mind if nothing comes after my death and we cease existing,” this is indicative of a concerning selfishness where one has little to no regard for earthly life as a whole.

To which the argument is: “But being dead, I would have no influence over the lives of others, nor the capability to care.”

However, this question is proposed during a time that you are still living and still capable of influencing how others live after you are dead.

Now since you shared that you do not want eternal suffering to come after, you should be or begin teaching others how to prevent eternal suffering, specifically following Jesus in His Passion and Crucifixion (being patient and kind, even towards enemies, through death), because once we are all this patient and kind, suffering will cease for all.

 

[jochoa]

I may go to confession but I’m not sure if it will help. Won’t it be invalid if I don’t believe?

Consider this article: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Attrition

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!

Although a confession is imperfect without genuine contrition, if you sincerely request the Holy Spirit to help you grow in contrition, God will work miracles through the Sacrament of Reconciliation for you!

Also, Church Teaching has your best interest at heart. Even though the teachings may go against popular opinion and human sense, following the teachings indeed get us to heaven! If you’d be interested in considering ideas on how certain Catholic teachings are for the benefit of you and your loved ones, please don’t hesitate to ask!

 

[rosejmj]

don’t seem to believe that he would love you enough to forego sexual relations for part of a month. And I am not interested in a comeback that indicates he does not have that much self control (let alone love). If his attitude is that he needs to have sexual relations with you whenever he deems it necessary/important/whatever else, then I would suggest that you are being used. That is harsh; but not divorced from reality.
[/quote

Not necessarily true. He may just not trust the method. My significant other is the same way

 

[littlered123]

However, you repeatedly say that you have doubts about religion. Proving you are not adopted (without going to a dna test) is the same process as proving the Gospels are true.

There is written evidence, and scholarship continues to show the reliability of the Gospels. Looking at your birth certificate is the same process; it would take a great deal of corruption to fake a birth certificate from a hospital.

There is a big difference between a birth certificate and the Bible. I can use scientific evidence to find out if my parents are my biological parents. You can’t prove the Bible is true. Historical scholars can find evidence that parts of it may or may not have happened, but it’s not possible to prove anything, especially things that occurred thousands of years ago. I have read books and articles about the historical accuracies or inaccuracies of the Bible. There is not much historical evidence for many parts of the Old Testament. Maybe those stories never happened? Or maybe only the Bible writers recorded them? There is also very little secular documentation and writing about Jesus and different theories out there about who the historical Jesus really was. There is no way to truly know what happened 2 thousand years ago.

 

[littlered123]

My boyfriend has no problem forgoing sexual relations. I think I want sex more than he does. I also know that I am capable and willing to go without sex when necessary. While he is willing to explore NFP, he does not find it to be very reliable and just doesn’t want a huge family(if I’m as fertile as my mom, it’s certainly a possibility). We also want to wait several years before having kids due to school and financial factors. If there is a higher risk of getting pregnant solely using NFP, we won’t risk it

 

[littlered123]

When one shares, “I don’t mind if nothing comes after my death and we cease existing,” this is indicative of a concerning selfishness where one has little to no regard for earthly life as a whole.

I don’t think that it’s selfish. I think it’s more selfish to be constantly thinking of your eternal happiness and glorification. The thing is, there is no way of knowing what comes after. There either is life after or we just stop existing. Both are scary. But I accept that we are only humans and we can’t live forever and we must accept death when it comes. Knowing that we don’t live forever is encouragement to live a full life and to do things that are meaningful to me. I don’t need the idea of heaven or hell to have meaning in my life.

 

[littlered123]

Also, Church Teaching has your best interest at heart. Even though the teachings may go against popular opinion and human sense, following the teachings indeed get us to heaven!

How can any teaching that goes against human sense be true and meant to get me to heaven? I would think God would have more sense than to require us to go against our human sense

 

[littlered123]

Although a confession is imperfect without genuine contrition, if you sincerely request the Holy Spirit to help you grow in contrition, God will work miracles through the Sacrament of Reconciliation for you!

What if I don’t intend to stop my sins?

 

[jochoa]

I think it’s more selfish to be constantly thinking of your eternal happiness and glorification.

You are correct. It is more selfish to constantly think of one’s eternal happiness and glorification. On the other hand, it isn’t selfish to think of others’ eternal happiness and glorification.

From an agnostic perspective, the question of life after one’s death challenges one to think of the eternal happiness and glorification of others.

Knowing that we don’t live forever is encouragement to live a full life and to do things that are meaningful to me.

This is the selfishness that creeps into our justification.

Consider developing your position to “knowing that we don’t live forever is encouragement to live a full life and to do things that are meaningful to us, including those after me.”

 

[Anesti33]

A few years ago, I took a course on Theology of the Body. How eye-opening that was for me! Here’s one takeaway from it: We will have our bodies for all eternity, for better or worse! We will receive glorified bodies at the Resurrection, and while these glorified bodies will be perfected and idealized, they will still be our unique bodies. That means I should take care of the one I have because it’s mine forever! If that is not an incentive to go to the gym, I don’t know what is.

We won’t live forever, but then again, we will live forever. Yes, we will have a death. But we will live for all eternity, whether we spend it in Hell or rest in Heaven. And so I think that makes for good incentives to make the most of this life. We have a finite end to our faith and works on this mortal coil. But whatever we do has eternal repercussions! The goal is to get to Heaven and take as many other people with us as we can! So I will spend this life in evangelizing, in proclaiming the Good News, in refuting fake news about the faith, and loving others.

Yes, we should be concerned about our personal holiness, just as we should be concerned about our physical fitness. But being concerned with our own holiness means that we love God and love one another. That’s the biggest goal we can have. So there is nothing at all selfish about personal holiness. It’s God’s universal call to all of us.

 

[jochoa]

How can any teaching that goes against human sense be true and meant to get me to heaven? I would think God would have more sense than to require us to go against our human sense

I agree with your thought in that, God has more sense than to require us to go against our senses. Yet, God has given us the ability to develop our senses, where at the apex of fully developed senses, we find that it contradicts the common sense we have as babies, children, young adulthood, and even in totality as humans.

Our human sense, without consideration for divinity, will always be limited to the temporal, in specific a limited time for life.
Divine sense takes into account the eternal.
God shares with us the ability to consider/sense the eternal.

 

[littlered123]

There is nothing selfish about wanting a meaningful life for myself. Being happy encourages others to be happy. I can’t control other people or what they live for or what gives them meaning. I do know that I can control my life and what I live for and I also know that how I live my life affects others. By focusing on living a good life I am improving the lives of those around me. It’s only selfish in that I think of myself, but it’s impossible to completely avoid that and not a positive thing

 

[littlered123]

I thought people’s bodies were beautiful in heaven. No need to worry about fitness because your body will become perfect in heaven. That’s always what I learned. Like I doubt people would be old or sick in heaven, so why would they be unhealthily fat or not in shape?

I mean it makes sense you can and should improve yourself and it can be beneficial to those around you to work on yourself. I don’t think it’s selfish in a bad way. I guess it’s selfish in the sense of being focused on yourself, but as humans it’s impossible not to focus on ourselves sometimes

 

[jochoa]

What if I don’t intend to stop my sins?

In confession tell the priest the sins that you do not intend to stop doing.

Also consider:
In times our thoughts, feelings and will are not aligned in righteousness, follow the ones that are righteous.

You have a feeling that death, and worse death with eternal damnation are terrible, while having thoughts that following the rules to prevent death or eternal damnation are wrong. Furthermore, your will as a child was to grow in Catholicism, while your will as an young adult was to not grow in Catholicism.

Of those the feeling and the will of your childhood are the righteous, therefore grow in discipline of aligning your thoughts and will to follow along.

 

[littlered123]

You have a feeling that death, and worse death with eternal damnation are terrible, while having thoughts that following the rules to prevent death or eternal damnation are wrong. Furthermore, your will as a child was to grow in Catholicism, while your will as an young adult was to not grow in Catholicism.

The only reason I fear death and hell so much is because of what I was taught as a Catholic- that if I ever left or doubted or sinned I’d go to hell. Honestly, I think that teaching a kid those kind of things, before they can find the truth for themselves is a type of emotional abuse. It’s trying to scare someone into believing and following what you want them to. Of course I believed whatever my parents told me as a child. I’m sure my parents believed it, but it doesn’t make it true. As a young adult I can now think critically and the information I have found coupled with the way I think, it’s hard to rationalize Catholicism

 

[jochoa]

There is nothing selfish about wanting a meaningful life for myself.

Alright, and with your dialogue about death, you are developing your desire for a meaningful death! Keep the dialogue open and God will help you!

I can’t control other people or what they live for or what gives them meaning. I do know that I can control my life and what I live for and I also know that how I live my life affects others.

Agreed, we should never try to control others, yet we should use our influence for good.

By focusing on living a good life I am improving the lives of those around me.

Consider equating “Good” with “God.” Then, develop your thoughts and beliefs about goodness and God to be consistent.

 

[jochoa]

Honestly, I think that teaching a kid those kind of things, before they can find the truth for themselves is a type of emotional abuse.

Please have mercy on us parents that do not know how to gracefully guide our children to heaven and away from hell.

This reminds me of how after years of carrying my children across the street, then walking them across the street by hand, and then reinforcing by word of how to cross the street, I eventually had to tell them the brutal truth of the potential of death, if they are not careful while in the street.