Rev. Robert Jeffers

[Legal_Eagle]

By now, we’ve all heard of Reverend Robert Jeffers, proud Rick Perry endorser, and pastor of First Baptist Dallas. Chances are we’ve also all heard of his take on the origins of the Catholic Church. If you haven’t, here’s a link to a snippet from one of his sermons.

youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA

Now, I’ve obviously heard this before, but it was usually from some kook. I never gave it much thought and usually dismissed the kook as a kook and went on about my business. This time it’s coming from a well respected pastor in a very large mainstream-ish Protestant community. I have three questions:

1. Do other well respected mainstream–ish Protestant pastors preach this stuff?
2. Other Jack Chick’s imagination, where do these beliefs come from?
3. Has anyone seriously undertaken an effort to debunk this?

Peace,

 

[Ron_in_minden]

According to my wife that is what they teach their children. Don’t let the smile fool ya.

 

[JRRTFAN]

By now, we’ve all heard of Reverend Robert Jeffers, proud Rick Perry endorser, and pastor of First Baptist Dallas. Chances are we’ve also all heard of his take on the origins of the Catholic Church. If you haven’t, here’s a link to a snippet from one of his sermons.

youtube.com/watch?v=nI0MBgA7ckA

Now, I’ve obviously heard this before, but it was usually from some kook. I never gave it much thought and usually dismissed the kook as a kook and went on about my business. This time it’s coming from a well respected pastor in a very large mainstream-ish Protestant community. I have three questions:

1. Do other well respected mainstream–ish Protestant pastors preach this stuff?
2. Other Jack Chick’s imagination, where do these beliefs come from?
3. Has anyone seriously undertaken an effort to debunk this?

Peace,

There is no point in debunking it. There is nothing to debunk. He’s a goofball. The amazing thing to me is that this is a mega-church in Dallas, TX, not a backwater 4-square community of 50 fundamentalists. And this mental pygmy gets away with this? Surely there are sentient human beings in this ecclesial community that know this guy is a goof.

 

[MarkBrown]

To answer your questions

1. Yes. John MacArthur for example. Ken Silva another.
2. Seminary, westiminster Confession of Faith and any other Protestant writings and teachings out of the reformation. Error is passed on to each generation.
3. Yes. But anticatholicism will be here as long as there are those who are not catholic.

Protestantism is rife with anticatholicism. Most of it is below the surface or hidden within doctrines etc. Protestants continually compare themselves to Catholics. Usually in justification of their beliefs, especially those beliefs that are contrary to Church, Traditional or Scriptural teaching.

When I was a Protestant, I do not remember any Catholic coming up to me brazenly claiming what I believed was wrong. In my Baptist Seminary, we were taught how to reason with Catholics from the scripture to enlighten them to their errors. I remember one call on evangelism, we had to give weekly “reports” on our efforts to spread the gospel. Those who engaged Catholics were seen in an elevated manner than those who engaged methodists or even pagans. My professor, Dr. Green, would almost become giddy when a student related yet another encounter with a Catholic. (we got extra points for Catholics , other protestants and the orthodox not as prized.)

But we are not alone. The SBC is on a witch hunt for calvinists within their ranks. That is why the SBC has been relatively quiet on the anticatholic front. Need some housecleaning done first.

I was a calvinist SBC pastor. Next to catholics, calvinist are just as “loved”.

My advice. Know your faith. Laugh when ignorant anti-catholics start telling their whoppers and if they are ready to listen, correct their errors. They probably will not listen, but those around will be.

I “debated” a rabid anti-catholic who was ranting in the largest baptist church in Pensacola. My youngest daughter was there for soccer practice. I reached my popeye moment, “stood all I can, can’t stand no more”. I laughed at is ignorance, lack of biblically understanding, he was ranting Paul and Jesus taught a different gospel from the Apostles., laugh at him so more. Countered every point, with humor, wit and pointed retorts when needed. My final comment to him, was who vetted your beliefs…which pastor, church, denomination. Of course he said the Holy Spirit helped him understand the scriptures. So how did he know it was the Holy Spirit? By what authority and why should I listen to you and not 2000 years of Catholic and Church teaching. I said, “just who do you think you are…I think you are antichrist…you preach a different gospel.” With that he stormed off. And the Baptist clapped. When they found out I was catholic, most eased off. Many stayed, none challenged me. Those who stayed were interested in what a catholic thought and believed by talking to a catholic and not just listening to a preacher tell them what a Catholic thought or believed.

Note, most protestants get their theology and beliefs from the preacher. They do not study and if they do, very few read outside their beliefs and denomination. Sadly, so do most catholics.

 

[Holly3278]

I think someone should write to him and refute his argument against Catholicism. I am not knowledgeable enough to do so myself.

 

[Springkeeper]

Note, most protestants get their theology and beliefs from the preacher. They do not study and if they do, very few read outside their beliefs and denomination. Sadly, so do most catholics.

Pensacola is currently where I hang my hat as well. You must really love the street corner screamers.

I know I heard all sorts of non-defensible claptrap when I was in an ABA church. I did study the Bible and the more I did, the more I became a thorn in their side. They always insisted the Holy Spirit taught them biblical truth and that anyone else who didn’t agree with them was obviously not under the influence of the Holy Spirit. They did not operate with any sort of logic or reason and it drove me nuts, it was like being surrounded by a flock of parrots. I stormed out of service when one of the visiting pastor/missionaries referred to Catholics as devil worshppers and they denied he ever said it but refused to allow the recorded message to be heard. Anti-Catholicism is heard at some seriously huge churches (6000+ people) because people like Jeffers honestly do not believe Catholics are in fact Christians.

As far as humor is concerned, one lady got snippy about my crucifix and smugly said “I worship a risen Savior”. I said “me too but you’ll note that if Jesus Christ never rose from the dead- that cross would be still be empty”. She looked stunned and her DIL laughed.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

I appreciate all the replies. Thank you. However, it’s obvious that we are not taking what Rev. Jeffers says seriously. I realize that its hard to treat ridiculous claims seriously. However, in this case we need to pay attention. I don’t think a simple, “That’s ridiculous,” will do this time.

While Rev. Jeffers’ claims may be ridiculous, Rev. Jeffers himself is anything but ridiculous. He leads an enormous and well respected congregation in a major metropolitan area. Rick Perry chose this man to introduce him at the Value Voters Summit. Perry is three term governor of the second most populous state in the nation, and a serious contender for the Presidency of the United States. Obviously, millions of people hold Rev. Jeffers in high esteem, and listen to what he has to say.

So…can someone please make a serious attempt to respond to Rev. Jeffers’ claims?

Peace,

 

[Church_Militant]

It’s actually pretty simple to refute Jeffers’ remarks. Just look at his sources. He is parroting the writings of Alexander Hislop and Dave Hunt which also tells us that he has not done his own homework, so look at the sources we have access to that refute his.

1. 
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   *]The Whore of Babylon
   
   One of the serious defects that I see in Rick Perry’s candidacy is his extreme conservatism. Some people see that as his strength, but if you look at the things he says, the things he has done in his tenure in Texas, one might well reconsider. Texas has not been a shining example of what the United States stands for and the fact that Bush was also from Texas should inform some of our thinking. I really don’t like politics and consider it a necessary evil.
   
   I would also say that Perry’s religious affiliation, since he clearly sees his connection to Jeffers as good and appropriate; that this should raise serious red flags with Catholics all over the U.S… If we are going to make religious considerations a point in the case of Mit Romney, then why not also Rick Perry?

 

[JRRTFAN]

I think someone should write to him and refute his argument against Catholicism. I am not knowledgeable enough to do so myself.

I could do it as I have schooled myself for about 18 years dealing with the mindset. But this guy picked up his schtick from a fellow named Ralph Woodrow who wrote a screed called “Babylon Mystery Religion”. Woodrow, after years of research, eventually repudiated BMR. Unfortunately this Jeffres never read the retraction. To me this proves that he is hopeless.

Anybody who thinks these smiling Evangelicals think Catholics are not cultists is deluded.

They want nothing for you but to have you “come out” of a cult they think is as dangerous to your soul as JW or Mormonism.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

It’s actually pretty simple to refute Jeffers’ remarks. Just look at his sources. He is parroting the writings of Alexander Hislop and Dave Hunt which also tells us that he has not done his own homework, so look at the sources we have access to that refute his.

Thanks for the links. I read them, and found them very helpful. Have you read Hislop’s book or the refutations?

One of the serious defects that I see in Rick Perry’s candidacy is his extreme conservatism.

I’m not concerned with Perry per se. My concern is that Perry, a nationally prominent figure with well educated professional advisors, saw no problem in allowing Rev. Jeffers to introduce him at a gathering of potential voters. This means Rev. Jeffers obviously has quite a bit of status in the Baptist/Evangelical community. If this well educated, prominent man holds these goofy beliefs, then they must be fairly well accepted within Baptist/Evangelical circles. Yikes!

I grew up Baptist. I never heard any of this stuff as a kid. To me, Catholicism was just another denomination that wasn’t Baptist and was, therefore, obviously wrong. Is Hislop or Hunt taught at Baptist seminaries?

I would also say that Perry’s religious affiliation, since he clearly sees his connection to Jeffers as good and appropriate; that this should raise serious red flags with Catholics all over the U.S… If we are going to make religious considerations a point in the case of Mit Romney, then why not also Rick Perry?

Religious considerations are an issue. Either one takes his/her religion seriously or he/she does not. If a person does not take his/her religion seriously, then one has to wonder about the person’s character. If one takes his/her religion seriously, then those views will dramatically affect the policy decisions that person will make in office.

Peace,

 

[Legal_Eagle]

But this guy picked up his schtick from a fellow named Ralph Woodrow who wrote a screed called “Babylon Mystery Religion”. Woodrow, after years of research, eventually repudiated BMR.

Will google Ralph Woodrow. Thanks.

Peace,

 

[JRRTFAN]

Will google Ralph Woodrow. Thanks.

Peace,

Google Jack Chick (Chick Publications). Jack sells it (he’s the grand daddy of anti-Catholic whopper publishers (he draws and prints those 2 X 3 tract pamphlets you find on the toilet tanks of South Georgia gas stations and truck stops with such illuminating title as “The Death Cookie” and “Why is Mary Crying”.

I suggest Karl Keating’s excellent “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” for a cogent overview of the world of anti-Catholic screed.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thanks for the links. I read them, and found them very helpful. Have you read Hislop’s book or the refutations?I’m not concerned with Perry per se. My concern is that Perry, a nationally prominent figure with well educated professional advisors, saw no problem in allowing Rev. Jeffers to introduce him at a gathering of potential voters. This means Rev. Jeffers obviously has quite a bit of status in the Baptist/Evangelical community. If this well educated, prominent man holds these goofy beliefs, then they must be fairly well accepted within Baptist/Evangelical circles. Yikes!

I grew up Baptist. I never heard any of this stuff as a kid. To me, Catholicism was just another denomination that wasn’t Baptist and was, therefore, obviously wrong. Is Hislop or Hunt taught at Baptist seminaries?Religious considerations are an issue. Either one takes his/her religion seriously or he/she does not. If a person does not take his/her religion seriously, then one has to wonder about the person’s character. If one takes his/her religion seriously, then those views will dramatically affect the policy decisions that person will make in office.

Peace,

Have read the refutations from This Rock and such. That article by Ralph Woodrow is also on the CA site, so you might search for it…

Perry’s chummy relationship with Jeffers is one thing that should raise red flags about him with most Catholics. If he’s prone to espouse someone this anti-Catholic it raises serious questions about his smarts and those of his advisers, so I have to agree with your conclusions.

I don’t know about Baptist seminaries and Hislop, Lorraine Boettner, etc, but I do know that professional anti-Catholic evangelist Mike Gendron seems to give speeches and seminars at some as well as individual Baptist churches around the country. I just noticed that he’s supposed to be going to Rome soon for a couple of months.

I regularly refute his newsletter articles and such on my blog. IMO he’s not really very good at all.

1. 
   *]Refuting anti-Catholic tract: “Rome vs The Bible” by Mike Gendron
   *]Refuting: “Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?”
   *]Refuting Mike Gendron’s attacks on Eucharistic Adoration
   *]Response to Hard Questions to Ask Good Catholics (By Mike Gendron)
   

   Google Jack Chick (Chick Publications). Jack sells it (he’s the grand daddy of anti-Catholic whopper publishers (he draws and prints those 2 X 3 tract pamphlets you find on the toilet tanks of South Georgia gas stations and truck stops with such illuminating title as “The Death Cookie” and “Why is Mary Crying”.
   
   I suggest Karl Keating’s excellent “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” for a cogent overview of the world of anti-Catholic screed.

   

 

[JRRTFAN]

Have read the refutations from This Rock and such. That article by Ralph Woodrow is also on the CA site, so you might search for it…

Perry’s chummy relationship with Jeffers is one thing that should raise red flags about him with most Catholics. If he’s prone to espouse someone this anti-Catholic it raises serious questions about his smarts and those of his advisers, so I have to agree with your conclusions.

I

Perry’s being chummy with Jeff-Bo doesn’t bother me. Romney’s cadre is anti-Catholic as well, it’s a big Mormon deal to grab a Catholic for the Angel Moroni.

What bothers me is Catholics who think all these guys are our soul mates. You sit in a few hundred Evangelical services like I have and you can observe the currents.

Regardless, Perry, Romney, Pepe-la-Pew or anybody is better than Mr. Obama.