Revelancy of numbers in scripture

[look3467]

Numbers in the bible are repeated many times over, meaning that they have significance to the spiritual message.

The most important of all numbers is 7.
If you use blue letter bible or e sword online bible resource, then you can click on the number 7 and it will give you all the scriptures that contain that number.

Now, numbers though key in understanding are not used as dogma.

Importance is not the point, but the message it conveys is.

If one desires to look into it, find a book which explains numbers in scripture.

Some points:Why:
12 Apostles significance?
7 day creation, why not 10?
40+40+40 years for Moses?
Why Pharaoh had two dreams?
Number of fish count when Jesus requested it?
Why 4 beasts?
Why 6 wings?
Why four horseman?

These are but just a few of them.

Surely, for the student of the word these things beg a questions.

Tell us of what you understand about some of these numbers.

Remember, this is only a study an not something that should derail any of your current beliefs.

After all, do we all not worship the same God of the Bible?

If so, then anything that is praise worthy towards God can not be evil.

Hope to engage in a good discussion and consideration will be given to all responses regardless of point of view.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Crumpy]

I have a couple Jewish commentaries on the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh (which is an abbreviation for the Hebrews words for the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings).

Rabbi Abraham Cohen’s book called Everybody’s Talmud gives an interesting overview of Judaism, and it delves into the numbers a bit. (I found a copy on the shelf at my local public library.)

That is an area apparently analyzed by the Jewish Kabbalah (if my spelling is correct, from memory). The Kabbalah is the mystical commentary of the Tanakh, looking for hidden meanings and such.

I’m reading the Commentary on Genesis by Rabbi Nahum Sarna (Jewish Publication Society) and – I apologize for not looking this up just right now – I seem to recall him pointing out the special style of Gen 1:1 to Gen 2:3. He mentions that the “heptad” is emphasized. Heptad refers to the number, 7. Not only are there seven days for creation and the day of rest. But, I seem to recall him mentioning that these verses in Hebrew are seven sentences, consisting each of seven words.

Jewish words have numeric value, too, and I’m fading out altogether if he mentions that some words have the value of 7. Again, on real thin ice, I seem to recall his summary that this number is reinforcing the idea of the divine plan for creation.

I was searching for something else when I found this particular thread. When I get a chance, I hope to come back and polish up my remarks here.

Maybe this is the kind of stuff you are reaching for.

 

[look3467]

Hi, Grumpy

I’d be happy to discuss this topic with you.
I don’t make numbers in the bible absolutes, but they do mean something in it’s repetitive nature.

I feel I have a better understanding of Gods works due to having some what of an understanding of numbers in scripture.

Without going into to much depth in research I feel that the way numbers are presented in the bible is sufficient to extrapolate meanings.

For example, why a beast with six wings etc.

It sounds to me like you have a very intelligent mind to understand some of the sources and by which I too may learn from you.

This topic however, is one for those who are sound enough in their beliefs to where they will not fear venturing out of the norm to get answers.

I have my views in many of these numbers and it will be interesting to a good discussion on them.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[sdtouchton]

Sometimes they may have other meanings. For instance, when we read in Revelation 17:9 that “the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth,” we know that it is a count of hills, but that it means Rome. Rome has always been called the city of seven hills.

Some scholars have proposed that the numbers 3, 4, 7, and 12 represent completeness. Seven and twelve are included because they are the sum and the product of 3 and 4 respectively. Thus the so-called Trinity is the completeness of God, seven days is a complete week, and there are twelve tribes of Israel and twelve apostles. While there may be some validity to these ideas, nothing is clear from any particular scripture that numbers have meaning other than numbers. If they do, then I would think that 5, 10, 15, and 20 would be significant because those can be counted on fingers and toes.

 

[look3467]

Sometimes they may have other meanings. For instance, when we read in Revelation 17:9 that “the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth,” we know that it is a count of hills, but that it means Rome. Rome has always been called the city of seven hills.

Some scholars have proposed that the numbers 3, 4, 7, and 12 represent completeness. Seven and twelve are included because they are the sum and the product of 3 and 4 respectively. Thus the so-called Trinity is the completeness of God, seven days is a complete week, and there are twelve tribes of Israel and twelve apostles. While there may be some validity to these ideas, nothing is clear from any particular scripture that numbers have meaning other than numbers. If they do, then I would think that 5, 10, 15, and 20 would be significant because those can be counted on fingers and toes.

All possibilities are worth noting and interesting applications.

Mountains normally represent sitting authoritative positions, such as governments, administrations, religious heads.

I believe that all of it has to do with Christ’s work of redemption.

The whole of the bible makes Jesus the center and main focus of human creation, human redemption and life after this one.

7 being what I believe to be the key number in understanding the whole of Gods work.

I will explain as time goes on and as the questions lead.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[geometer]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=156610

Here is another thread that began some time ago on the same subject.

 

[Crumpy]

This post is a humble apology and correction to Post #2 in this thread. Several things I said there weren’t accurate or even close, for that matter.

One of the books I was referring to was “Everyman’s Talmud” by Abraham Cohen.

The mystical practice of Judaism is called Kabbalah. According the Jewish Publication Society book called “Jewish Words”: This area was long taught to disciples over the age of 40, who were well-versed in the Torah and Talmud (so they wouldn’t misunderstand the teachings of the Kabbalah, which means, to receive). Kabbalah has developed separate ideas about heaven, reincarnation, the Messiah, and creation. The system called gematria is one in which a number is assigned to each Hebrew letter, and they use this to uncover secrets that they believe are hidden in the Torah.

Compiled teachings of Kabbalah are contained in the Zohar. There is a copy of that in my local public library, but I have not explored that.

The heart of post #2 should have indicated the following:

In his commentary on Genesis, Rabbi Nahum Sarna says:
“…the Narrator employs the device of number symbolism, the heptad, to emphasize the basic idea of design, completion, and perfection. The opening proclamation contains seven words, the description of primal chaos is set forth in twice seven words; the narrative’s seven literary units feature seven times the formula for the effectuation of the divine will and the statement of divine approval; and the six days of creation culminate in the climactic seventh.”
“This seven-day typology is widely attested in the ancient world.” In Mesopotamia, a temple was dedicated with a seven-day feast. Other Middle Eastern literature is replete with seven-day units of time. Most common is something that goes on for six days and is climaxed with completion on the seventh. In contrast, the biblical narrative is unique with a separate action on six days and no activity on the seventh.
(the Jewish Publication Society Commentary on Genesis, R. Nahum Sarna, 1989)

So, the Kabbalah secret numbers are a separate issue from that of literary number symbolism.

Again, I apologize for the earlier errors.

 

[geometer]

Compiled teachings of Kabbalah are contained in the Zohar. There is a copy of that in my local public library, but I have not explored that.

Be very careful with the Zohar. Private study of the Zohar is know to cause insanity. I believe it should only be studied under the supervision of a Rabbi.

 

[Crumpy]

I did a search on “Bible number symbolism” and got a lot of hits. That might be a place to start hunting.

I have heard of symbolism for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 17, 19, 23, 40, 151, and 10,000, as I can recall (which is not too good, if you read my previous posts).

 

[look3467]

I did a search on “Bible number symbolism” and got a lot of hits. That might be a place to start hunting.

I have heard of symbolism for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 17, 19, 23, 40, 151, and 10,000, as I can recall (which is not too good, if you read my previous posts).

Well, like anything else in bible interpretations, anything can be taken to extremes to suit any particular view.

The bible is written in such a mysterious way that it holds no one individual or group to a sole correct and only correct interpretation.

The reason I believe it was done that way is to hold the believer to faith alone and not on the written word.

The law as given by Moses was to be honored to a “t” which we all know it was an impossibility.

That condition of holding our feet to the law had no heart, for it was the written word (on stone tablets)and not faith (as in written in the heart) that determined the condition of adherence the individual, which was condemnation.

Having explained the difference is the same as defining anything, any issue in life that is conditioned on the written word.

Numbers in scripture is not an exception either.

Yet, there is enough evidence in clues to justify numbers, symbols and use of words, as being important to understanding the spiritual message implied.

Here is the primary clue: Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Multiplied visions: Pharaohs dream, dreamed twice?

Similitude’s:
Adam a similitude of Jesus, second Adam,
Cain a similitude of Jesus, marked man for death that if found would be punished “7” fold,
Able a similitude of the nation of Israel whom Christ who spiritually cut them off (Killed) from the only ones to have access to God.
Esau a similitude of Israel and Jacob a similitude of Jesus who stole their birthright.
Abraham a similitude of God, Issac a similitude of us (who should have been sacrificed) but rather the goat, a similitude of the substitute Jesus.
On the cross, we have three distinct crosses, the condemned man, one of the thief’s, the new man to be, one of the thief’s who asked Jesus to remember him in paradise, and the one who would pay the price for the other two, to salvation.
Is the number of man signified by the number six, created on the 6th day?
In similitude to the three persons on the cross:
We have the first man (6) Adam, condemned,(one thief) the second man (6) Adam condemned (Jesus) and the new man (6) (the other thief)
Clue to that being the case is: Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.
Once is Adam, twice is Jesus and the third time is the new creature, of a spiritual nature.

We can see now maybe, if you lend yourself to a little openness, that numbers do matter and are very significant in understanding the bible, yet not significant enough to secure our salvation because faith alone in Christ can only do that.

Numerology is an exercise in extremes and can lead to confusion for it would direct ones faith from Jesus to faith in numbers.

As is with any thing else, faith must be in Jesus alone, and nothing else.

There is allot more to share but for now, we’ll work on what the spirit leads us to discuss.

Peace>>>AJ