Revelation 12

[2ndGen]

I will prove the the following from Scripture that Mary is the woman mentioned in Revelation 12.

I invite any other beliefs to be shared here (that the woman represents a church or Jeruselum or a nationality or Protestants or whatever one believes).

 

[2ndGen]

Firstly, let’s see this:

Mary, the opposite of Eve.​

Eve brings death to mankind.

Mary brings The Life to mankind (Jesus Who is The Life).

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Eve was made “from” man.
Flesh of man’s flesh, bone of man’s bone.

Jesus was made “from” Mary.
Jesus was flesh of Mary’s flesh and bone of Mary’s bone.

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Eve hid from God as a result of her disobedience.

Mary magnified God as a result of her obedience.

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What Eve has wrought,

Mary has undone.

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She is the woman mentioned in Genesis 3 who brought salvation to man through her womb (the woman who would wail in pain in Revelations 12).

But let no man disrespect Eve for she too is our mother. May God bless her and us, her children.

 

[2ndGen]

Revelation 12
1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

2 and she was with child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered.

3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems.

4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.

5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels;

8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.

14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a river, that he might cause her to be carried away by the stream.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

 

[2ndGen]

Revelation 12

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

Mary seen in heaven with Jesus in her…He is The Light (John 1) and this Light (as if arrayed in the light of the sun…play on words? The Son?) that enveloped Mary was Jesus.

The moon in Jewish writing signified darkness/evil (eternal sleep or death). She was stomping out evil and putting away darkness because of her work by bringing forth The Light…Jesus.

She was crowned…as The Mother of The King of Kings who is Jesus, she is The Queen of Queens. A King can only be born of a Queen and a King of Kings can only be born of the Queen of Queens. (Revelation 19:16).

2 and she was with child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered.

Who else’s pain would be worth mentioning as much as the only woman to give birth to a child having never had relations with a man? If it’s diffictult for a normal woman, how much more difficult would it be for a virgin?

3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems.

Obviously Satan.

4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.

The angels he took with him.

Here he stands poised to persecute Mary and Jesus.

5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.

Again, Revelations 19:15…Jesus rules all nations with an iron rod. He is assumpted to Heaven (Book of Acts).

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Here, is when Mary fled Jeruselum to Egypt for 3 1/2 years (precisely the time that she had to wait to return to Jeruselum…Herod died just under 4 years after Mary left Jeruselum).

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels;

Satan’s rebellion.

8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Satan’s banishment.

9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

Satan prepares to persecute Christianity with his demons.

10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.

The Gospel is proclaimed. The bretheren accused are The Apostles.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

Here, they talk about The Apostles who were martyred for The Gospel (except the writer of the book, John who was spared to care for Mary upon Jesus’ death at The Cross).

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

Earth = mankind as we are made of soil
Sea (or water) = spirits as does wind, like when Jesus breathed The Holy Spirit upon The Apostles, when His “Spirit” left His body with His last breath, when it was confirmed that His body was dead when water poured out, when baptism is conferred with “water and spirit”, etc…

 

[2ndGen]

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.

Here, Satan persecutes those humans who follow Christ and especially Mary, she who brought forth The One who would undo what Satan did…Satan brougth life through “the woman” Eve, and “the woman” Mary’s role is reversed of Eve’s in that she brings life to man through Jesus. (Genesis 3).

14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Mary is assumpted into a place where she is protected by Angels(but of course, why would Jesus abandon His mother to the perseuction of Satan having all the power of God at His disposal?). If we would protect our own mothers who are less blessed than Mary, of course we can reasonably expect that Jesus would do the same for her only with a lot more graces at His disposal.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a river, that he might cause her to be carried away by the stream.

Here, Satan hurls vile insults about Mary, trying to belittle her role in God’s plan. Again, sending evil spirits into men that focus on belittling Mary and in minimizing her work for mankind.

He hopes that his evil talk and disrespect and dishonor of The Blessed Mother disuaded some of Jesus followers from remaining in full communion to His Church and that Mary’s position as being loved by Christians is washed away in lies and deceit.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Here, humanity comes to the rescue of Mary (the earth) and defends her taking on all the attacks by blackhearted men being used by Satan to discredit Jesus’ mother.

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

Since Satan couldnt any longer get to Mary or her exalted state in Christinity, he went on to attack those that love her and to whom her womb gave eternal life…those that follow her Son; those that keep God’s Commandments.

Those are called Christians and all Christians are called her “seed” or her children because our eternal Life (Who is Jesus) came through her womb.

Mary is therefore, the spiritual mother of Christians.

 

[2ndGen]

http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/ourlady2.gif

 

[2ndGen]

Wow…not some Protestants believe that Jesus was created with “recycled” flesh and blood…that Mary was born sinful and God cleaned her up just to use her to transport His Son then abandoned her to sin again after He got what He wanted out of her (essentially calling God an opportunist).

 

[Flos_Campi]

2ndGen,
Thank you for breaking these passages down and giving explanations. Such dedicated work. Hope I can print it out for futuire reference.
You are brilliant !

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen,
Thank you for breaking these passages down and giving explanations. Such dedicated work. Hope I can print it out for futuire reference.
You are brilliant !

You humble me. :bowdown:

Of course! Feel free to use them, but allow me this. I am not stating those things as absolute fact nor am I claiming to represent the official Catholic Church’s view.

These are my observations personally (of course, the way I’ve written on goes beyond any doubt as to who The Woman in Revelation 12 is, but I cannot speak for what The Church teaches). I’ve seen alternative interpretations that I could see why someone would believe what they believe.

For example, they’ve taken one verse and devised a theory on it. Some have taken two or three or more verses and have created completely different theories.

But I believe mine to be the most completely matching theory on the topic so far (at least that I’ve seen).

Anywhere that The Woman is mentioned in scripture, it matches Mary.

However, I’ve seen no interpretation that out matches mine on the susbstance of Scriptural support and on that of Historical context.

It literally wrote itself.

Again, thank you for your kind words.

The more I learn, the more I realize I don’t know!



God bless you and yours.

 

[2ndGen]

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

2ndGen, I have to admit great work This is the first thread that I have visited, that the thread starter answered his own thread before anyone could respond

Kidding aside 2ndGen, I too would like to make a print out of your thread, It will save me some time, thanks

Yours in Christ Peace:thumbsup:

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen, I have to admit great work This is the first thread that I have visited, that the thread starter answered his own thread before anyone could respond

Kidding aside 2ndGen, I too would like to make a print out of your thread, It will save me some time, thanks

Yours in Christ Peace:thumbsup:

:bowdown2: Thank you. Of course, print it, publish it, make tracts with it!

And I had to answer myself…no body else dared!

 

[bpbasilphx]

I will prove the the following from Scripture that Mary is the woman mentioned in Revelation 12.

There’s just one thing:

The Woman of the Apocalypse cried out in pains of childbirth.

The fathers teach that the Holy Virgin suffered NO such pains.

Try again.

 

[2ndGen]

I will prove the the following from Scripture that Mary is the woman mentioned in Revelation 12.

There’s just one thing:

The Woman of the Apocalypse cried out in pains of childbirth.

The fathers teach that the Holy Virgin suffered NO such pains.

Try again.

There’s just one thing…
…their opinions that aren’t doctrine are not to considered facts that must be believed by Christians!

Annnddd…do any of them say that Mary is “not” The Woman in Revelations 12?

Annnddd…why didn’t you list the Church Fathers that actually stated what you used with their exact quotes and with citable references?



And that’s it?

Just one?

You can’t disprove all the other things that compare more favorably to Mary (especially like the fact that she actually gave birth to Jesus)?



Besides, here are some "points’ you seemed to have left out with your uncitable statement:

"The Fathers that believed Mary had no labor pains usually cited Isaiah 66:7, 8: "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things?” The passage would seem to suggest that pain could have come anytime after the birth (“before her pain came”) but not before the birth.

Although the Church has never pronounced the belief as dogma, some Popes have held it privately: Pope Alexander III in AD 1169 wrote “Mary conceived without shame, gave birth without pain, and has departed from earth without undergoing the corruption of the tomb, thus proving - according to the word of the angel - that she was full of grace and nothing less” (Denzinger 748)."

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4366



Besides all of that, does the Bible itself say that Mary did’nt sufffer any birthpains?

 

[Valke2]

Firstly, let’s see this:

Mary, the opposite of Eve.​

Eve brings death to mankind.

Mary brings The Life to mankind (Jesus Who is The Life).

I don’t see how you can look at Eve and say she didn’t bring life to mankind. Without her, there would be no mankind. The story of man would have ended there.

 

[2ndGen]

I don’t see how you can look at Eve and say she didn’t bring life to mankind. Without her, there would be no mankind. The story of man would have ended there.

I didn’t say she didn’t bring life to us, but that she introduced death to mankind (believe me, I have a very respectable and healthy love for her and consider her the mother of mankind…fact, I get as enraged by those who attack her and blame her (for their sin).