Revelation 20: The Lake of Fire and Death and Hades

[Estel]

It seems that all of this is a mystery, but I have some questions about Revelation 20, and I am curious about people’s opinions. I am very down, so comfort would be appreciated, even if my ramblings somehow offend you, which they are not intended to, nor be controversial.
Questions:

Does “death and hades” refer to the people under “death and hades”, or actual death and hades? I know that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, but can it found here, or perhaps rather in revelation 21, when the One who sits on the throne says there will be no more death? Since death is not a person, how can it go to the place where people apparently go? Or do people not go there?

Could the lake of fire destroy those who are not written in the book of life in such a way that their evil parts of their selves would be destroyed, but their good selves in some way can be restored? For example, the adversary (Hebrew for Satan) is destroyed, but the angel who was created good has hope of life. Or the beast or false prophet is destroyed, but the man who was created good has hope of life. Or do you think it is truly a hopeless case for those cast into the lake of fire? If you look at the Greek, you could translate it, “they will be tested day and night, for ages” roughly. Certainly, I would not deny that they will not be released until they have paid the last penny. When the last penny is paid, and God sees fit to not be angry anymore, as scripture tells us will occur (“I will not always be angry” and “I will not cast off forever”), do you think a lost soul can be found by the One who does not want anyone to be lost? (Certainly, anything is possible with God, so I guess I answered my own question/rambling. Still, I would like to hear what people think).

Finally, do you think it is wise to ponder the mysteries of scripture, or not be concerned about the future? Personally, I wonder what will happen, because I’d like a happy ending to my life that would lead to eternal life. I’d also like to not live here in fear. Am I taking the bible too literally? (Probably yes).

 

[GEddie]

There is no restoration from the lake of fire, sorry to say.

I really don’t know what it means for “death” to go into the LOF. That will be a joyful day, if I could see it, as I hate and fear death with everything in me!

Might there be a death-being? (Presumably one of the fallen angels?)

My understanding of all of this, (FWIW) is that when human time runs out, the physical world will become part of the eternal one. The place of death (Hades) will become the LOF, and Earth will be part of, or the base of Heaven.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Estel]

There is no restoration from the lake of fire, sorry to say.

I really don’t know what it means for “death” to go into the LOF. That will be a joyful day, if I could see it, as I hate and fear death with everything in me!

Might there be a death-being? (Presumably one of the fallen angels?)

My understanding of all of this, (FWIW) is that when human time runs out, the physical world will become part of the eternal one. The place of death (Hades) will become the LOF, and Earth will be part of, or the base of Heaven.

ICXC NIKA

Thank you for your reply.

 

[captainrick]

Personally, I don’t take Revelation literally, and really don’t know how to interpret it. Sorry, not very helpful, I know!

 

[Estel]

Personally, I don’t take Revelation literally, and really don’t know how to interpret it. Sorry, not very helpful, I know!

Thank you, I think that is a good way to look at the book of Revelation.

 

[Mintaka]

‘"These kinds of tropes, as that the doer may take the name of what he does,’ are frequently found ‘in the Scriptures. So as adversaries, the devil and his ministers are called ‘“Death”’ and ‘“Hell,”’ (Rev. 6:8; Rev. 20:13-14) because they are the causes of death and Hell to many. As it is written, “Death, where is your sting?” (1 Cor. 15:55) Yet also the same devil, who is called Death, spends death in the “lake of fire,” which is “the second death.” (Rev. 20:14)’

– St. Beatus of Liebana, Commentary on the Apocalypse, lib. 1. He is quoting Primasius of Hadrumentum, Commentaria in Apocalipsim, who is probably quoting Tyconius’ even earlier commentary on the Book of Revelation.

(You may remember Tyconius as a Donatist guy; but his Bible commentaries were so good that St. Augustine and others made sure to save his work for the Church.)

The Book of Revelation isn’t nearly so confusing if you study up on Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah and the various prophets. It is chock full of OT prophetic imagery, most of which is fully defined in the prophetic books.

(And if you’re interested, Beatus’ Commentary on the Apocalypse is a good place to start, because it brings together all sorts of stuff from all sorts of Fathers and Scripture passages.)

 

[PJM]

=Estel;12747005]It seems that all of this is a mystery, but I have some questions about Revelation 20, and I am curious about people’s opinions. I am very down, so comfort would be appreciated, even if my ramblings somehow offend you, which they are not intended to, nor be controversial.
Questions:

Does “death and hades” refer to the people under “death and hades”, or actual death and hades? I know that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, but can it found here, or perhaps rather in revelation 21, when the One who sits on the throne says there will be no more death? Since death is not a person, how can it go to the place where people apparently go? Or do people not go there?

Could the lake of fire destroy those who are not written in the book of life in such a way that their evil parts of their selves would be destroyed, but their good selves in some way can be restored? For example, the adversary (Hebrew for Satan) is destroyed, but the angel who was created good has hope of life. Or the beast or false prophet is destroyed, but the man who was created good has hope of life. Or do you think it is truly a hopeless case for those cast into the lake of fire? If you look at the Greek, you could translate it, “they will be tested day and night, for ages” roughly. Certainly, I would not deny that they will not be released until they have paid the last penny. When the last penny is paid, and God sees fit to not be angry anymore, as scripture tells us will occur (“I will not always be angry” and “I will not cast off forever”), do you think a lost soul can be found by the One who does not want anyone to be lost? (Certainly, anything is possible with God, so I guess I answered my own question/rambling. Still, I would like to hear what people think).

Finally, do you think it is wise to ponder the mysteries of scripture, or not be concerned about the future? Personally, I wonder what will happen, because I’d like a happy ending to my life that would lead to eternal life. I’d also like to not live here in fear. Am I taking the bible too literally? (Probably yes).

Thanks for some very thoughtful questions.

What you reference might be best explained by sharing that it refers to “The Last Four Things”

They are:
Death
Judgment
Hell of Heaven [one or the other; both is not a possibility]. WHY

Look at Genesis 1:26-27 which tells us that man [and only “man”] is created in the image and likeness of God. Jn.4: 23-24, explains why in the Old Testament God never FULLY revealed Himself. He appeared as a voice, a burning bush, a cloud but never human form
because “God IS SPIRIT”.

So how then can mortal man emulate our God who is a “Spirit?”

IN all of creation only man is gifted with a mind, intellect & freewill [space is limited so I’m being very brief] and each of these attributes is a permanent attachment to our Souls; and like God each of these 4 things are also “Spiritual” in there essence and like God they are also Eternal, cannot be killed, and are spiritual realities.

WHY? Please READ Isiah 43: verses 7 & 21 for the answer.

We exist to that we MIGHT choose to actually Know, Love, Serve, Obey and Worship God

Because God is “Perfect” God desires that pur Worship of Him also be perfect and that the love we freely choose to give Him also be "perfect. In order for love to be perfect it must be freely given. Thus man can choose to love God or to hate God. Our Choice.

What we choose then becomes what God will pass judgment on us the very moment we die. What we choose to believe, our charity or lack of it, our sacrifices or feeding our pride all come with “price tags”

Mark.13: 33-37 “Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Watch therefore – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning – And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."

Luke.21: 36 “But watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of man."

1Cor.16: 13 “Be watchful, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong.”

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

“ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

Rom.2: 13 “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”

God is One Mk. 12:29
God can and does have just one set of faith beliefs Eph. 4:1-7
God did founded just one Church; today’s Catholic Church Mt. 16:15-19 “MY Church” singular.

PRAY MUCH, God will help you.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[TimothyH]

Personally, I don’t take Revelation literally, and really don’t know how to interpret it. Sorry, not very helpful, I know!

The Book of Revelation was written to seven Churches which were suffering persecution because of their refusal to worship Roman emperors.

Asia Minor was the center of Emperor Worship with many temples to the emperors. The Christians refused to participate and were ostracized, barred from commerce, exiled, tortured and killed. This is the reason why Revelation was written and the overall theme is that those who persevere to the end will be saved.

Everything else in the Book of Revelation has to be read in this context.

timhollingworth.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-number-of-beast.html

-Tim-

 

[Mystophilus]

Does “death and hades” refer to the people under “death and hades”, or actual death and hades?

As others have commented, the Bible does this a bit, and such personification is also very common in Greek mythology. Given that tendency, and the highly figurative nature of the Revelation, I would not go for the conclusion that it refers to individual entities, but it could well refer to those principles: everything evil, including the fact of death and the place of suffering, gets destroyed in the end.

If you look at the Greek, you could translate it, “they will be tested day and night, for ages” roughly.

βασανισθησονται alone could be rendered “test”, but εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων is a biblical Greek formula for “forever”, which makes “test” less likely than “torture”. Still, there is that “highly figurative” issue, mentioned above.

Finally, do you think it is wise to ponder the mysteries of scripture …] Am I taking the bible too literally? (Probably yes).

The Philokalia talks about this quite a lot, the very short summary being that meditating upon metaphysics is good, but not simple, and one should be wary both of overly-literal and of overly-fanciful interpretations.

 

[Estel]

Thank you all for the replies.

 

[Jim_Baur]

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA!

Our God is a consuming FIRE.

We are baptized by being place under or submerged into a lake.

I, have not looked at the passages, but I am using other passages to shine a little light.

It is, MAYBE, those that have missed loving God, self and others. But God places them in His love.